[Deleted] level of cooperation with coders


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level of cooperation with coders

Postby lmwevil » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:39 am #478171

how far is absolute separation for you as a headmin, how much do you want to actually work WITH oranges and the codebase?

how would you go about dealing with a situation if you heavily disagreed with a change that a maintainer seemed deadset on merging?

how much say would you like headmins to have, irrelevant of potential reality in the codebase itself?

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Re: level of cooperation with coders

Postby MortoSasye » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:18 am #478194

I would simply like it if we could work together deciding via vote which features players like and dislike and negotiate removing them in the case they strongly dislike it, when possible.
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Re: level of cooperation with coders

Postby Hulkamania » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:00 am #478224

I think having a working relationship with the coders is a really important thing, but it's not our place to inject upon their decisions. We can hold polls to get player opinion, we can tell them what we think, but at the end of the day it's up to them and I think that's a good thing.

If they respect the admin team, then they'll listen to what we have to say. If they don't then they won't. We have to give the coders something worth respecting, and they in turn provide a game that the players is worth playing. They put in all the work actually coding the damn thing, so they've earned the right to pick and choose how exactly that's taken care of.

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Re: level of cooperation with coders

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:54 am #478258

oranges is god, and also my boss

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Re: level of cooperation with coders

Postby BeeSting12 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:42 pm #478289

I'm happy to test merge changes, change policies to accomodate change within reason, run polls, etc to help with the development of the game.

I'd go downvote it on github and make my arguments against like anyone else would. I have about as muc say in the code base as the next guy unless the change involves rule changes. I think coders look to headmins a bit more for that kind of thing.

I think it's healthy to keep the server and code base out of the same hands. Kinda like checks and balances in the American government I guess.
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Re: level of cooperation with coders

Postby Nervere » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:13 pm #478331

We had an uneasy relationship with oranges at the start of this term with the catperson vote, but other than that, we've kept coder collaboration pretty high.

We currently have all maintainers in our admin channels on Discord, so whenever we would like to express our concerns or discuss a code issue, they're readily available to talk. This wasn't something invented during our term - it has been this way for quite a while, but it's a valuable connection and we've made good use of it. This bond has allowed us to get a lot of new admin tools, and help give admin perspective on topics where admin policy is intertwined with the code (such as with the creep antag).

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Re: level of cooperation with coders

Postby D&B » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:21 am #478430

Someone once said, and I hold it in high regard, administrators are game masters.

Coder collaboration has been high, but I believe it a failure in moderating a game to allow broken or hated gamemodes to run their course. We've had these experiences with ClockCult and the Gang testing period, in which players suffered through these rounds when, after polls were taken, more than 70% of the server disliked these rounds.

Personally, if results like these do come during my term, I would discuss it with the other headmins in order to remove such gamemodes from rotation until fixes, reworks, or removals are done. Yes, bug testing is important, but I think a few select rounds with extra observance would be more easily digestible for the server at large than having them forced on end until something is fixed.
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Re: level of cooperation with coders

Postby subject217 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:00 am #478470

I'm quite familiar with how the development process for /tg/ station works on GitHub, having submitted a number of PRs there myself. I also talk frequently with a number of maintainers who are active in adminbus. I've generally found them to be very reasonable when it comes to discussing things like game balance or the impact of a feature. I don't think there is going to be another catgirl crisis during this headmin term, which was probably the worst codebase server split in quite a while, and even that managed to reach a mostly reasonable resolution.
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PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:06 am.
Reason: stop being so agressive or you'll get put on post approval
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