Rate/comment on our old rules.

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MrStonedOne
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Rate/comment on our old rules.

Post by MrStonedOne » #612770

Here is what the rules and policies used to look like when I first took over hosting the webserver.

I think we need more retrospective looks back like this:

Rules

tl;dr
"I don't want to read this!"
There's a lot here, but the gist of the rules is roleplay takes priority. Don't metagame. Don't play to win. Don't be a jerk OOCly. If you don't understand what those words mean or you need more detail, read on!

Primary Policies
0. Admins may disregard any of these rules at their discretion when they feel its in the best interest of the current round/server/playerbase at large. They will, of course, be fully accountable for their actions should they choose to exercise this privilege.
1.We're all here to have a good time. If you're intentionally trying to ruin everyone else's good time, you won't have a place here. Being a jerk in-character is fine to a point, but being a jerk out of character is not welcome at all.
2. You are playing a game where you are not fully in control of everything. You will be put into situations beyond your control, which will result in some rounds being ruined for you. Man up and deal with it. However, if you are obviously griefed, be sure to report it to administrators by using the 'adminhelp' verb.
3. This is a roleplaying game. The purpose of the game is to have fun roleplaying. Being an asshole, who ruins other player's roleplay experience, just to win, is considered a 'play-to-win' style of playing. You can and will be banned for this playstyle. Be considerate of other players' experience.
3b. (Suggested rewording) Randomly murdering people is generally considered to be ruining someone's fun and poor form in roleplay. If you don't have a solid IC reason for murder, you may be removed. Trying to justify it with 'My character is so random/insane' is not tolerated.
4. IC information should be kept out of OOC channels and vice-versa.
5. Don't metagame. Do not ever use information, acquired out of character or through patterns or events your character would not be able to know, in game.
5b. (Suggested rewording) This game is developed by volunteers in their spare time. Do not expect perfection. If you find a bug or an exploit, report it via adminhelp. Abusing bugs or exploits is not allowed. This includes reacting to events or patterns, which your character would not be able to identify IC (metagaming).
6. If you take up or are given a job, which is important for game progression (head of staff, AI, antagonist role), make sure you actually do that job. If you find yourself unable to do this due to real life circumstances, just let an admin know (adminhelp) before you leave, please.
7. Speak like a normal person while in character. Don't spam, either IC or OOC. Don't use smileys, netspeak, etc. in IC speech.
8. Erotic Roleplay is allowed, but some decency is expected. Keep it private. All involved players must consent. Unwelcome ERP will be punished harshly, usually with a permaban.
9. Ingame administration has the final say in all ingame matters. If problems arise, you can report offending or abusive admins on the forums. If an admin says something was valid, it means it was valid. This is the admin's way of saying it's been investigated and found to not breaking any rules; The admin will not reveal ingame information.
10. It should go without saying, but if you break the rules (or regularly come very close to breaking them i.e. "toeing the line"), you will be warned, muted, banned, or talked about rudely.


Additional Policies

Roleplay
  1. Murder is justifiable as long as it was properly escalated. You can't go from a single rude punch to a knife in the neck. You can, however, go from a single punch to a counter punch to a brawl to using weapons, and so on. Other IC justifications may exist for murder, but these are on a case by case basis. Minor aggravations like demotions, pranks, insults, or thefts are not adequate justification.
    ./*:m:m/*:m]
  2. IC in OOC can be a no warning ban of 15 minutes, it can be longer if the IC in OOC is severe. To clarify, this is revealing anything about the current round that others can use in the OOC channel. If you are unsure do not say it.
  3. Avoid using non character names. If you have a very offensive name or an obviously immersion breaking moniker like 'xenohunter360' you will be asked to change it.
  4. As long as there is adequate IC backing and it doesn't happen too often, assisting a traitor is within the rules.
    ./*:m:m/*:m]
  5. Admins are not only allowed to run events or otherwise influence the course of rounds, they are encouraged to. They are as much GMs as they are enforcers of the rules, perhaps even moreso.
  6. Persistent character relationships are acceptable, so long as they're roleplayed out every round. Wordlessly assisting your OOC friends (or harming your OOC foes) ICly is NOT cool and will be addressed harshly. Roleplaying out your interactions will help you stay on the right side of the rules. How much or how little of previous "shifts" your character recalls is up to their discretion, with the caveat that being a known traitor doesn't persist past the round it occurred in.
    r/*:mn./*:m]
  7. Griefing on the shuttle can also be a no warning ban scaling up from 15 minutes. Shuttle griefing is attacking people or preventing people boarding before the shuttle has launched for no IC reason.
Silicons
  1. All Silicons are expected to follow their laws to the best of their ability. Failure to do so will likely result in a job ban from all silicon positions.
  2. Law order determines law priority. In the case of two laws contradicting, the one with the smaller law number wins.
  3. Asimov silicons are not required to do what players who threaten self-harm demand, unless they choose to interpret law 1 to include that.
Command/Security
  1. Security are expected to use non-lethal force when defending against non-lethal attacks. This of course also means that security are allowed the option to use lethal force when defending against lethal attacks. Getting stunned in a dark maintenance hallway by an assistant is potentially lethal - a clown slipping you outside Medbay, probably not.
  2. Permabrigging is functionally the same as murder. Anyone who is valid for execution is valid for permabrigging. Anyone who is not justifiably executable is, likewise, not justifiably a candidate for permabrigging. Makeshift permabrigs are treated the same as the official permabrig in terms of rules-enforcement.
  3. A Captain or acting Captain may execute criminals, traitors, and other known threats to the station should alternatives not prove sufficient. Abuse or misuse of this privilege can lead to job banning or worse.
  4. Theft, assault, annoyance, false arrest, sentence times etc. are in character matters. Unless it is extremely excessive or griefy, it is not an admin matter.
Admin-help
  1. When you adminhelp do not say things like 'is it valid?' or 'being griefed', give details of what is happening and ideally who is doing it, job and character name.
  2. If you see someone doing something that seems out of line adminhelp right then, do not wait until round end to see if they are a traitor then adminhelp next round. It makes it a lot harder to deal with.
  3. Do not lie in PM's and avoid being aggressive, unhelpful or insulting to admins, lying while being questioned over an incident will cause you to receive a longer ban and being consistently insulting or aggressive will get you muted.
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Timberpoes
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Re: Rate/comment on our old rules.

Post by Timberpoes » #612791

Not performing comprehensive breakdown. Selecting rules based on personal interest.
3. This is a roleplaying game. The purpose of the game is to have fun roleplaying. Being an asshole, who ruins other player's roleplay experience, just to win, is considered a 'play-to-win' style of playing. You can and will be banned for this playstyle. Be considerate of other players' experience.
Powerful rule. Spirit of this rule underlies cultural elements of multiplayer game. Enjoy idealistic nature. Feel spirit of MRP rules & enforcement encompasses this well.

Delicate balance - Sometimes fun comes at expense of others. Not always bad. Sometimes just lose. See current server rule 10.
8. Erotic Roleplay is allowed, but some decency is expected. Keep it private. All involved players must consent. Unwelcome ERP will be punished harshly, usually with a permaban.
lol

(Did I do it right, Burger-sensei?)
Admins are not only allowed to run events or otherwise influence the course of rounds, they are encouraged to. They are as much GMs as they are enforcers of the rules, perhaps even moreso.
Agreed, but see also https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Admin_Conduct - "Don't spam sounds and events. If you're queuing sounds one after the other, or if you're running an event every day, you're doing it too often."

Nowadays focus primarily on players creating stories. Admins DMing facilitates this.

Have 100 admin on team. If every admin run 1 event per week influencing shift? Too many cooks. Players no chance to tell stories. Just admins jerkle circing own events.

Frown at events focused around admins & admin fun at expense of players & player fun. Let players play. Have fun. Facilitate it, don't ruin it.

Own view that admin interaction with players multiply enjoyment. Make impossible happen. Feeling of real universe, real Gods, real people.

Every admin should admin with this in mind. Power of admin tools akin to dev console. Players create stories, admins make those stories real. Make them happen.

Massive event amazing in moderation when correct goals. Syndiestation. Thingling. Cool, player-focused events. Still player stories. Admins just help make them.
If you see someone doing something that seems out of line adminhelp right then, do not wait until round end to see if they are a traitor then adminhelp next round. It makes it a lot harder to deal with.
Want to see more of this.
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Mothblocks
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Re: Rate/comment on our old rules.

Post by Mothblocks » #612810

Though it's a lot shorter than what we have now, it's still a little wordy and repetitive, though I know why, it's to reinforce what "don't be a dick" means to us. Better to be clear about what we expect rather than be too broad and confuse players and create inconsistent administration. I like that there's a tl;dr, though I would understand the hesitation behind adding one back and would not be married to the idea of that myself. I imagine it gives people more leeway to say "well, I didn't read the rules" and so on.

As an example: rule #3 is nice, but #3b is silly and doesn't say anything rule #1 doesn't. Rule #10 really should "go without saying", as should likely rule #9 (considering people who are going to get flippant about admin rulings are going to regardless of if there's a "rule" against it or not, and admins should feel free to mute people and whatnot who are getting frustrated with it).

Rule #8 is, concretely, lol.

The part about persistent friendships needing to be roleplayed out every round is worse than what we have now. I honestly can't completely tell if it's functionally the same as what we have now, but it's definitely worded worse.

I'm not enthusiastic about specific ban lengths being in here, since I trust the admins to know the right amounts for themselves, and I don't want players to expect shorter ban lengths if they do something fairly stupid.

On the opposite of wordy and repetitive, the silicon policy is optimistically quaint in how much it gives to the reader to interpret on their own.

Overall--seems pretty similar to what we have now, except without a lot of the precedent bullet points that will help people understand the rules better.
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Stickymayhem
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Re: Rate/comment on our old rules.

Post by Stickymayhem » #612811

I think we lost a little something by abandoning this rule:
3. This is a roleplaying game. The purpose of the game is to have fun roleplaying. Being an asshole, who ruins other player's roleplay experience, just to win, is considered a 'play-to-win' style of playing. You can and will be banned for this playstyle. Be considerate of other players' experience.
I remember when we were more restrictive on validhunting and powergaming. It made antagonists more capable of doing interesting things, but I think in failing to enforce this and changing it over the years, we ended up relying on code to balance power levels when roleplaying did actually serve as a bit of a balancing factor.
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tattle
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Re: Rate/comment on our old rules.

Post by tattle » #612833

MrStonedOne wrote: 7. Griefing on the shuttle can also be a no warning ban scaling up from 15 minutes. Shuttle griefing is attacking people or preventing people boarding before the shuttle has launched for no IC reason.
This is interesting! I'd heard of the no-bwoink 15 minute bans for IC in OOC, but I hadn't heard of this rule. Not something I would want reinstated though.
MrStonedOne wrote: Silicons
  1. All Silicons are expected to follow their laws to the best of their ability. Failure to do so will likely result in a job ban from all silicon positions.
  2. Law order determines law priority. In the case of two laws contradicting, the one with the smaller law number wins.
  3. Asimov silicons are not required to do what players who threaten self-harm demand, unless they choose to interpret law 1 to include that.
Simpler times. I like the more encompassing version we have now because it acts like an FAQ.

Interesting that the proto-silicon policy has the rule about self-harm, it's buried in section 1.5 of silicon protections. I find that this doesn't come up basically at all nowadays.
MrStonedOne wrote: Admin-help
1. When you adminhelp do not say things like 'is it valid?' or 'being griefed', give details of what is happening and ideally who is doing it, job and character name.
I don't see this in rules anymore, but it looks like the latter half got moved to the Reject Adminhelp text:

Code: Select all

Please try to be calm, clear, and descriptive in admin helps, do not assume the admin has seen any related events, and clearly state the names of anybody you are reporting.
If you are reading this and you are a player, please do this! Doesn't need to be a long ahelp, just include all the information you think is relevant.
MrStonedOne wrote: 2. If you see someone doing something that seems out of line adminhelp right then, do not wait until round end to see if they are a traitor then adminhelp next round. It makes it a lot harder to deal with.
Yes please.
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Armhulen
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Re: Rate/comment on our old rules.

Post by Armhulen » #612834

Too long but ideal length for silicon rules, maybe I'd add a reminder about following laws in good faith. i'd have it replace rule 3
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