/tg/Station 13

Are they punishments? Discuss.

Useless debate with no real meaning or end goal. Just like everything else in this game, it depends on the context.

Context dependant, most notes are punishments to the effect that they can be escalated on if a similar incident to the note occurs. Some notes can be rewards, like antag tokens or good notes for stuff like roleplay. Usually a note is just a note, a reminder for the player not to do something again and something for future admins to keep in mind.

both.

it's disciplinary action to have something negative as part of your official record. it is meant to discourage you from repeating that same behaviour, so of course some may use it as a deterrent.

this is only its surface level value, however. notes also protect players by holding admins accountable for rulings they make. it allows players to view their own official record and what rulings have been made on them. without notes, these rulings would be made based on bias or hearsay, and there would be a lot less accountability for admins to be accurate and informed.

notes are also used in lieu of harsher punishments, where in other servers it would just net you a ban.

i like to not note or use expiring notes when possible. it entirely depends on the situation. if i feel like something is an accident or just a one-off thing, i will politely ask that player not to do it again, and if they accept responsibility, i don't feel the need to do anything further. no note, no ban, just a polite request from me and a polite acceptance from the player. resolved.

i will use notes when i feel like it would benefit admins further down the line to know that this conversation happened, whether it's because i believe the player is acting in bad faith, denied responsibility, lied, has done it before, whatever the case may be. this is to try and ensure that subsequent rulings if they do happen are fairly and accurately informed. i do not use notes with the intention of punishing or shaming the player, but i also don't deny that this is commonly how it can make a player feel.

Whether they are or aren't punishments doesn't matter. Notes are profile comments, a record of previous actions. If you have a history of misbehaviour, you will no longer be given the benefit of the doubt.

It feels bad to give them, it feels bad to get them, they most likely affect people's perception of the noted person beyond just the facts conveyed by them (thankfully our admins are capable of self-reflection so they see this happening and manage to negate the effect). They can be considered punishment, but that's just the cost of doing business. A very acceptable cost, as others have detailed the benefits of notes.

I'm of the opinion that notes are a punishment ( this conversation has been had 999999 times). I like dreary's response and found myself being similar. Often times a warning and a chat was enough

Every time this debate happens, I'm around to be all "NEGATIVE NOTES ARE A PUNISHMENT"

It doesn't mean don't use them. It means recognise that a player with a nega-note is in a worse place than a player without a nega-note.

So before placing a note, decide if you have a meaningful message to communicate to other admins and the player. If you don't have a meaningful message, consider just leaving your ahelp ticket at words.

PLEASE PLACE MORE POSITIVE NOTES THEY'RE FREE PLAYERS LOVE THEM THEY'RE MEGA ULTRA POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT I LIKE POSITIVE NOTES WE CAN DO THIS.