[Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging DoomsdayFNR

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Yakumo_Chen
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:08 pm
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[Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging DoomsdayFNR

Post by Yakumo_Chen » #329531

Byond account and character name: Yakumo_Chen, Blazing S.T.A.R.
Admin: Thunder12345
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: Round 75108 2017-8-23, ~9:00PM, Bagil
Detailed summary:
I was a malf AI. Was discovered as malf early but convinced heads of staff to not kill me through rigorous roleplay. Borg moved my core into space so I wouldn't be found. I had a plan to have a borg mine and spam SM shards around the station but it quickly failed. Someone built a PHAZON. Laugh and assume control of it. Hack more APCs until the shuttle comes and buy Doomsday, which works because my AI core is in the mech (which is on station).

I yakkety sax for an untold amount of time to try and get the doomsday timer, it felt like 10 minutes at least. The timer is normally 5 minutes. Eventually I get caught in space because the SM exploded under my feet and I couldn't move (the mech survived intact surprisingly) and for the only time of the entire time I was saxxing, I saw a timer for my doomsday counter. 120 seconds.

Being as I couldn't move in space, I eventually got killed.

Afterwards I was told Thunder didn't like my "Mech Code Cheese" and had reset the timer not once but twice, denying me my Doomsday Boom that I deserved twice over by that point.

Fucking with my antagging because "he doesn't like it" isn't fair, and no rules were broken by doing so.

I can maybe understand resetting it once because I was saxxing so hard. Murderboners often get ERTs called on them but the only thing I was doing was trying to wait out a timer that would end the round.

I obviously didn't have a chance fighting against a crew with hardsuits, ion guns, jackhammers, and jetpacks, but he extended it YET ANOTHER five minutes on top of it to make it even more impossible to get it off. By the point I died I was running at about 10% power and had expected the timer to go off much, much earlier (my cell would have lasted five or even 10 minutes).

Admins never extend the nuke ops timer for any reason, why should I get unfair treatment?
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imblyings
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by imblyings » #329538

[09:41:38]ADMIN: Thunder12345/(Emily Vargas) modified The doomsday device's detonation_timer to 66032

only see one timer edit in the logs, although this is the first I've heard of mech code being bad used as a reason for admins to intervene in a game.
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
onleavedontatme
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by onleavedontatme » #329539

Thunder also edited a gps into the mech and made a command report about it, maybe that is the second action Yakumo was thinking of
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Thunder11
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by Thunder11 » #329540

I gave the crew a chance because the mech was a phazon that even with endgame gear nobody could actually keep up with because it just kept phasing through walls.
ImageImage
Spoiler:
IcePacks wrote:
MrFoster wrote:Back in my day, we didn't complain about lag! We used it to queue attacks!
That's thinking on your feet, soldier!
Quality Paprika from #coderbus wrote:[11:35.52] <paprika> holy crap so yeah i don't care about your opinion at all
oranges wrote:
Excuse me? Thats for sensible and calm rational debate, not for senseless whining.
Resident Catmin, please direct catposting to: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5578
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D&B
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by D&B » #329541

Why does the crew deserve a chance if they let it grow to that level of power?
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imblyings
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by imblyings » #329543

admins shouldn't be giving players a chance, if the antag has outsmarted or out-powergamed them all then that's ss13 for you

if someone was intentionally killing off everyone and delaying the round, yes but I don't think yakumo was doing that
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
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Thunder11
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by Thunder11 » #329544

It's a borderline exploit from what I can see, since the AI was actually hiding off the z-level, and was only able to trigger the doomsday because mech hijack physically teleports the core into the mech.
ImageImage
Spoiler:
IcePacks wrote:
MrFoster wrote:Back in my day, we didn't complain about lag! We used it to queue attacks!
That's thinking on your feet, soldier!
Quality Paprika from #coderbus wrote:[11:35.52] <paprika> holy crap so yeah i don't care about your opinion at all
oranges wrote:
Excuse me? Thats for sensible and calm rational debate, not for senseless whining.
Resident Catmin, please direct catposting to: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5578
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D&B
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by D&B » #329550

There's a line between giving a chance (which the crew didn't deserve) and fucking with someone, and it was clearly crossed here.

If you're gonna adminbus for every case of players discovering new ways to use mechanics, why even bother doing AI gimmicks if I know an admin will fuck with me for not using what would be the equivalent of an AI ebow+esword?
Last edited by D&B on Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dax Dupont
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by Dax Dupont » #329551

D&B wrote: If you're gonna ban for every case of players discovering new ways to use mechanics, why even bother doing AI gimmicks if I know an admin will fuck with me for not using what would be the equivalent of an AI ebow+esword?
Just want to clarify there was no ban here.
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D&B
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by D&B » #329552

Yeah my bad, brain farted there, corrected
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by onleavedontatme » #329555

Thunder11 wrote:I gave the crew a chance because the mech was a phazon that even with endgame gear nobody could actually keep up with because it just kept phasing through walls.
You don't see how it would feel unfair and frustrating to spend an hour in a round and an admin randomly logs in during the last five minutes and kills you because they take personal offense to your playstyle?
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Thunder11
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by Thunder11 » #329557

Yeah, in hindsight I can see how it looks that way, but at the time it looked pretty shitty and explot-like that an AI hiding in a phazon could run around nuking the station, at no risk to itself because the real core was hidden in deep space.
ImageImage
Spoiler:
IcePacks wrote:
MrFoster wrote:Back in my day, we didn't complain about lag! We used it to queue attacks!
That's thinking on your feet, soldier!
Quality Paprika from #coderbus wrote:[11:35.52] <paprika> holy crap so yeah i don't care about your opinion at all
oranges wrote:
Excuse me? Thats for sensible and calm rational debate, not for senseless whining.
Resident Catmin, please direct catposting to: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5578
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CPTANT
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by CPTANT » #329568

D&B wrote:Why does the crew deserve a chance if they let it grow to that level of power?
To what level of power are you revering to? All that is needed is the crew building a phazon and the AI having enough points for mech takeover.
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CPTANT
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by CPTANT » #329569

Was an issue report made of this? It seems like it is clearly unintended code behaviour.
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Wyzack
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by Wyzack » #329571

Action like this drives antagonists to the same cookie cutter boring tactics constantly because at least when you go around eswording people to death the admins just send ERTs rather than actively cancel your abilities so you can't win
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oranges
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by oranges » #329659

CPTANT wrote:Was an issue report made of this? It seems like it is clearly unintended code behaviour.
large parts of what makes ss13 interesting is that such things are possible, due to interactions of systems where we don't try very hard to police the boundaries of what is actually possible
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Cobby
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by Cobby » #329706

am I missing something or is this not the point of "mech control"? What else are you suppose to use "mech control" for if not to control a mech?

Also does the pinpointer not point towards the AI anymore while doomsdaying?
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by BeeSting12 » #329716

If the pinpointer points towards, the AI, I was unaware of that. It would be nice if it did.
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by Gun Hog » #329749

Hello! I am posting here because I need to clarify that Viral Mech Domination and Doomsday working is entirely intended! You are supposed to use the pinpointer to find the AI! Building a Phazon to fight the AI when they KNOW THAT IT IS ROGUE is on them, in my opinion. Anyway, I just wanted to say that Doomsday + Mech showdowns are something I wanted to happen. You are even instructed to not leave the Z-level when you move to the mech.

IT IS NOT AN EXPLOIT!

Takeover of [name] complete! You are now loaded onto the onboard computer. Do not attempt to leave the station sector.
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imblyings
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Re: [Thunder] - YakumoChen - Denying my AI Antagging Doomsda

Post by imblyings » #329775

Thunder is asked to refrain from intervening in rounds like they did in the future. Players should be allowed to experiment with the very interactive nature of the game and consider the fairness of their actions from a players pov. Finally, players shouldn't come to and most likely don't currently expect admins to intervene in these situations.
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
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