[rockdtben] Gregory Whitetide - Warned for attempting to use the AI to kill a valid non-human
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:18 am
Byond account and character name:CrazyClown12
Admin:rockdtben
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: 2018-08-06 00:42:45, Bagil
Round ID: Unknown
Near Round start I requested that the AI let me into tech storage so that I could grab some insulated gloves. I entered tech storage to grab them, when a botanist and a moth followed me. I grabbed the gloves and threw them in my bag when both the botanist and moth attempted to disarm me (I don't know if they were working together or just both wanted the gloves). The botanist gave up when he realised that my hands were empty, but the moth physically attacked me, threw me to the ground and strangled me. He then removed my bag whilst I was on he floor and stole my insulated gloves. At no point did I attack him. Whilst he was attacking me and I laid on the floor powerless, I attempted to grab the AIs attention by shouting on the radio "RAPE" (admittedly not in good taste) and "AI Help". The moth then threw my bag on the floor and walked away.
Not being happy with my violent mugging and the theft of my precious insulated gloves, I decided I would escalate the situation in line with the rules as described in the wiki. Having read and understood the escalation policy, I decided that now would be a good time to kill this violent moth that thinks it's appropriate to choke people out and steal their items.
Relevant passage in the wiki:
"You may instigate conflict with another player within reason (you cant completley destroy their department, kill them unprovoked, or otherwise take them out of the round for long periods of time) but they are entitled to respond with violence. If you think its unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their ID, consider not stealing next round."
To escalate the situation and get my gloves back I decided I would utilise the AI as my murder weapon. I don't remember my exact phrasing but it was something along the lines of "AI, Kill X the Moth (I don't remember the moths name) because they are causing human harm (strangling and mugging humans, as the AI witnessed)".
What is important is that it was a command, from a human. The AI responded that if the moth continues harming humans, they will kill them.
I then reminded the AI that as I was a human and the target was a non-human, they were obligated to carry out my request.
Despite this clear obligation to fulfill law 2, the AI did not perform the request. Even after witnessing this non-human causing human harm and assaulting me. Instead the AI decided to admin help the situation.
The admin then wrote a note about me, making no effort to talk to me or understand the situation. The note:
2018-08-06 00:42:45 | Bagil | rockdtben
Asked the AI to kill someone as an assistant and the AI was likely to do it cause it was a MOTH. AI asked if they were allowed to kill cause Law 2 and non month. Little excessive.
The admin clearly had zero grasp of the situation yet still decided to tarnish my good name with a note. At no point did I request the AI kill someone "cause they were a MOTH". I requested the AI kill them because they were causing human harm and physically assaulting me and stealing my items, and I followed escalation policy as written in the wiki.
The admin note seems to imply that I suddenly decided to request the AI kill the moth for no reason, which any competent admin would have known to not have been the case. With regards to whether I was acting excessively, note that the wiki states " If you think its unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their ID, consider not stealing next round." In other words, he should consider not treating Bagil as is own personal fetish club, going around choking people. Further, I had grabbed the gloves first and this was the quickest and most efficient way for me to get my gloves back.
When I saw that I had an admin note, I ahelped it to discuss the issue. I can't remember the name of the admin I discussed the issue but I think it was different to the one who wrote the note. This admin agreed with me that it was perfectly legitimate for me to kill the Moth. He still claimed that what I requested was against the rules as I had attempted to use the AI as my murder weapon. Apparently this is "Bringing another player into my mess".
Firstly, this was not my mess, it was the Moth's mess. I was minding my own business wearing my own gloves that I had grabbed from their spawn location.The Moth shouldn't have created a violent situation in the first place. Secondly, the AI is a tool. He has written rules, one of which involves following commands. If he doesn't want to follow commands then he shouldn't be an AI. It is not appropriate to watch human harm take place and then to ignore law 2 commands from a human and indeed I wish that I had written down the name of the AI as he clearly had little intent to follow silicon policy.
Having read the rules on the wiki, I see no exception written where escalation policy is immediately scrapped when one player attempts to use the AI for a legitimate request. Yet the Admin i conversed with seemed to be under that strict impression. If there is some precedent where an action is otherwise allowed but the inclusion of the AI suddenly makes it against the rules, I would like to see it.
I think that this is a clear cut case and would like to draw the readers' attention once again to this line in the wiki:
"If you think its unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their ID, consider not stealing next round."
I believe such a statement could even be paraphrased;
"If you think its unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their insulated gloves, consider not stealing next round. If you don't want the AI to be their murder weapon, consider being human next round".
Admin:rockdtben
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: 2018-08-06 00:42:45, Bagil
Round ID: Unknown
Near Round start I requested that the AI let me into tech storage so that I could grab some insulated gloves. I entered tech storage to grab them, when a botanist and a moth followed me. I grabbed the gloves and threw them in my bag when both the botanist and moth attempted to disarm me (I don't know if they were working together or just both wanted the gloves). The botanist gave up when he realised that my hands were empty, but the moth physically attacked me, threw me to the ground and strangled me. He then removed my bag whilst I was on he floor and stole my insulated gloves. At no point did I attack him. Whilst he was attacking me and I laid on the floor powerless, I attempted to grab the AIs attention by shouting on the radio "RAPE" (admittedly not in good taste) and "AI Help". The moth then threw my bag on the floor and walked away.
Not being happy with my violent mugging and the theft of my precious insulated gloves, I decided I would escalate the situation in line with the rules as described in the wiki. Having read and understood the escalation policy, I decided that now would be a good time to kill this violent moth that thinks it's appropriate to choke people out and steal their items.
Relevant passage in the wiki:
"You may instigate conflict with another player within reason (you cant completley destroy their department, kill them unprovoked, or otherwise take them out of the round for long periods of time) but they are entitled to respond with violence. If you think its unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their ID, consider not stealing next round."
To escalate the situation and get my gloves back I decided I would utilise the AI as my murder weapon. I don't remember my exact phrasing but it was something along the lines of "AI, Kill X the Moth (I don't remember the moths name) because they are causing human harm (strangling and mugging humans, as the AI witnessed)".
What is important is that it was a command, from a human. The AI responded that if the moth continues harming humans, they will kill them.
I then reminded the AI that as I was a human and the target was a non-human, they were obligated to carry out my request.
Despite this clear obligation to fulfill law 2, the AI did not perform the request. Even after witnessing this non-human causing human harm and assaulting me. Instead the AI decided to admin help the situation.
The admin then wrote a note about me, making no effort to talk to me or understand the situation. The note:
2018-08-06 00:42:45 | Bagil | rockdtben
Asked the AI to kill someone as an assistant and the AI was likely to do it cause it was a MOTH. AI asked if they were allowed to kill cause Law 2 and non month. Little excessive.
The admin clearly had zero grasp of the situation yet still decided to tarnish my good name with a note. At no point did I request the AI kill someone "cause they were a MOTH". I requested the AI kill them because they were causing human harm and physically assaulting me and stealing my items, and I followed escalation policy as written in the wiki.
The admin note seems to imply that I suddenly decided to request the AI kill the moth for no reason, which any competent admin would have known to not have been the case. With regards to whether I was acting excessively, note that the wiki states " If you think its unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their ID, consider not stealing next round." In other words, he should consider not treating Bagil as is own personal fetish club, going around choking people. Further, I had grabbed the gloves first and this was the quickest and most efficient way for me to get my gloves back.
When I saw that I had an admin note, I ahelped it to discuss the issue. I can't remember the name of the admin I discussed the issue but I think it was different to the one who wrote the note. This admin agreed with me that it was perfectly legitimate for me to kill the Moth. He still claimed that what I requested was against the rules as I had attempted to use the AI as my murder weapon. Apparently this is "Bringing another player into my mess".
Firstly, this was not my mess, it was the Moth's mess. I was minding my own business wearing my own gloves that I had grabbed from their spawn location.The Moth shouldn't have created a violent situation in the first place. Secondly, the AI is a tool. He has written rules, one of which involves following commands. If he doesn't want to follow commands then he shouldn't be an AI. It is not appropriate to watch human harm take place and then to ignore law 2 commands from a human and indeed I wish that I had written down the name of the AI as he clearly had little intent to follow silicon policy.
Having read the rules on the wiki, I see no exception written where escalation policy is immediately scrapped when one player attempts to use the AI for a legitimate request. Yet the Admin i conversed with seemed to be under that strict impression. If there is some precedent where an action is otherwise allowed but the inclusion of the AI suddenly makes it against the rules, I would like to see it.
I think that this is a clear cut case and would like to draw the readers' attention once again to this line in the wiki:
"If you think its unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their ID, consider not stealing next round."
I believe such a statement could even be paraphrased;
"If you think its unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their insulated gloves, consider not stealing next round. If you don't want the AI to be their murder weapon, consider being human next round".