[Raveradbury]The unloved Rock - took manuel rule 6 to unreasonable extreme
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:32 am
When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Manuel
Byond account and character name OR Discord name:The unloved rock, Is-A-Lizard
Admin:Raveradbury
Round ID:139575
Detailed Summary:
This was the first time I encountered the new heretic antagonist. As the antagonist has intentionally had information about them hidden, I only knew some things about them, most importantly that they required their book to perform most actions and that they could increase their own power over time and eventually perform some kind of ascension, like with old shadowlings or devils, or perhaps more like cultists? Very early into the round we caught heretic james knox, he had created one of the runes and when trying to arrest him he tried to perform a mansus grab (basically like the cult stun except weaker, though I didn't know how exactly it worked at the time because I flashed him before he could perform it). I take possession of his heretic stuff (book and heart, both of which are items they start with and need to perform rituals) and after letting the detective scan them I decide what to do with them. I could just hide them in an evidence locker but I don't know exactly what they're capable of and I decide it'd be more engaging for me to fry and eat them in front of james' face. A bit afterwards is when raveradbury messages me.
I am warned that this is against rule 6, as I completely shut him down as an antagonist. I mention that james could steal a new tome and heart from another cultist if he wants to make a comeback, but Rave accuses me of metagaming for thinking this is possible. As it turns out heretic isn't in secret rotation and james was the only one, presumably a TC trade. I don't know how this is metagaming on my part then? It would've been metagaming for me to assume James was alone in that case. Anyways, I am warned that this better be a one-time thing, that it's lowrp to deep fry those items, and rave gives James a new book and heart. Note that I was not given an actual note for this, as far as I know.
Firstly, this is giving him an advantage over what would've happened if I had put the items in an evidence locker, which seems to be what rave wanted me to do? At the time I didn't realise how unreasonable ray was being. However as the round went on I realised how the heretic works, which is that they gib various people and increase in power. the first strength I noticed after he had gibbed an SSD was that he could jaunt now, making him far harder to track or take down and most importantly meaning it's almost impossible to arrest him without killing him. Other officers indifference and the fact I could no longer be kind to the antag made me reluctant to fight him. after he gibbed several people I try to fight him and discover he's far more powerful now, as he kills me and cremates my body, ascending not too long after. Do not be mislead by the term gibbed, I heard that at least one of his victims still had a head afterwards. just no body so they permanently lost their identity if they were even fixed, and I don't know if this applied to all of his victims. I certainly know this didn't apply to me, and anyone else if he cremated anyone else.
This is absurd to me because the heretic is designed as an antagonist that increases in power over time- therefore, the weakness of the antagonist is supposed to be subduing them early on before they can get stronger. We did that as reasonably as was possible while abiding by rule 6, taking away his equipment while still allowing him to play the round, and possibly get revenge on security. They also should normally have other heretics they can steal the items from which is probably some balancing measure behind them losing the objects. I don't think it's metagaming to keep that knowledge in mind when deciding whether I followed an ooc rule, especially when the alternative is that it would've been more realistic that I assumed those were the only copies of that heretic book and heart in existence? Either way, the antagonist is designed to be don't risk letting them get stronger or you'll regret it, so I made sure he couldn't get any stronger. The only difference between what i did and destroying a syndie's uplink, is that a syndie could've gotten everything they wanted from an uplink roundstart while a heretic will continually get stronger if you leave him with his equipment, and you know for a fact that a heretic WILL lethally sacrifice several people to achieve their goals. With James being able to retain his equipment he was able to kill anyone else who tried to stop him because the antagonist is supposed to be weakest at the beginning, and I was punished for stopping him at the beginning.
I was further told that deep frying his stuff and eating it in front of him was lowrp, but I'd say that is the epitome of a medium rp action. simply hiding it in a contraband locker would've made it hard for him to get, and if I wanted to make sure he never got it I could've just hidden it in a box in any personal locker or an unpowered disposals tube. instead I ate his stuff right in front of him as that's what I thought my aggressive lizard who eats rats on the floor would do. It's not the most realistic thing, but it didn't serve much gameplay purpose for me and fits perfectly fine in the wacky setting.
What I did was completely reasonable and likely the intended way to play the gamemode. Anything less would imply the antag has little incentive to avoid getting caught and there was no logical reason not to destroy an item that can only be used by a heretic. He still had the ability to play the round and even perform some antagonist stuff (and in a normal round he would've been able to resume his abilities if he managed to catch another heretic, but he was likely a result of a tc trade) and while we had mercy for James, his antagonist is based around gibbing people and when james deemed me a threat to him he had no issue permanently removing me. As an antagonist who grows in power when left unchecked, checking him as early as possible is how you're supposed to combat them, and the fact that with his items returned to him he was unstoppable and gibbed several others and cremated me. If the antagonist is designed to be extremely unkind to other players and to be best stopped as soon as possible, being kind enough to leave him alive and still able to act as an antag and in normal rounds possibly regain their abilities is more than enough mercy. flat out giving the items back to james was a spit in the face to me and the other officers involved in his arrest and lead to my death, the deaths of 4+ innocents who were his targets, and the only reason my fellow officer wasn't a victim as well is because he had the objective to protect him.
Byond account and character name OR Discord name:The unloved rock, Is-A-Lizard
Admin:Raveradbury
Round ID:139575
Detailed Summary:
This was the first time I encountered the new heretic antagonist. As the antagonist has intentionally had information about them hidden, I only knew some things about them, most importantly that they required their book to perform most actions and that they could increase their own power over time and eventually perform some kind of ascension, like with old shadowlings or devils, or perhaps more like cultists? Very early into the round we caught heretic james knox, he had created one of the runes and when trying to arrest him he tried to perform a mansus grab (basically like the cult stun except weaker, though I didn't know how exactly it worked at the time because I flashed him before he could perform it). I take possession of his heretic stuff (book and heart, both of which are items they start with and need to perform rituals) and after letting the detective scan them I decide what to do with them. I could just hide them in an evidence locker but I don't know exactly what they're capable of and I decide it'd be more engaging for me to fry and eat them in front of james' face. A bit afterwards is when raveradbury messages me.
I am warned that this is against rule 6, as I completely shut him down as an antagonist. I mention that james could steal a new tome and heart from another cultist if he wants to make a comeback, but Rave accuses me of metagaming for thinking this is possible. As it turns out heretic isn't in secret rotation and james was the only one, presumably a TC trade. I don't know how this is metagaming on my part then? It would've been metagaming for me to assume James was alone in that case. Anyways, I am warned that this better be a one-time thing, that it's lowrp to deep fry those items, and rave gives James a new book and heart. Note that I was not given an actual note for this, as far as I know.
Firstly, this is giving him an advantage over what would've happened if I had put the items in an evidence locker, which seems to be what rave wanted me to do? At the time I didn't realise how unreasonable ray was being. However as the round went on I realised how the heretic works, which is that they gib various people and increase in power. the first strength I noticed after he had gibbed an SSD was that he could jaunt now, making him far harder to track or take down and most importantly meaning it's almost impossible to arrest him without killing him. Other officers indifference and the fact I could no longer be kind to the antag made me reluctant to fight him. after he gibbed several people I try to fight him and discover he's far more powerful now, as he kills me and cremates my body, ascending not too long after. Do not be mislead by the term gibbed, I heard that at least one of his victims still had a head afterwards. just no body so they permanently lost their identity if they were even fixed, and I don't know if this applied to all of his victims. I certainly know this didn't apply to me, and anyone else if he cremated anyone else.
This is absurd to me because the heretic is designed as an antagonist that increases in power over time- therefore, the weakness of the antagonist is supposed to be subduing them early on before they can get stronger. We did that as reasonably as was possible while abiding by rule 6, taking away his equipment while still allowing him to play the round, and possibly get revenge on security. They also should normally have other heretics they can steal the items from which is probably some balancing measure behind them losing the objects. I don't think it's metagaming to keep that knowledge in mind when deciding whether I followed an ooc rule, especially when the alternative is that it would've been more realistic that I assumed those were the only copies of that heretic book and heart in existence? Either way, the antagonist is designed to be don't risk letting them get stronger or you'll regret it, so I made sure he couldn't get any stronger. The only difference between what i did and destroying a syndie's uplink, is that a syndie could've gotten everything they wanted from an uplink roundstart while a heretic will continually get stronger if you leave him with his equipment, and you know for a fact that a heretic WILL lethally sacrifice several people to achieve their goals. With James being able to retain his equipment he was able to kill anyone else who tried to stop him because the antagonist is supposed to be weakest at the beginning, and I was punished for stopping him at the beginning.
I was further told that deep frying his stuff and eating it in front of him was lowrp, but I'd say that is the epitome of a medium rp action. simply hiding it in a contraband locker would've made it hard for him to get, and if I wanted to make sure he never got it I could've just hidden it in a box in any personal locker or an unpowered disposals tube. instead I ate his stuff right in front of him as that's what I thought my aggressive lizard who eats rats on the floor would do. It's not the most realistic thing, but it didn't serve much gameplay purpose for me and fits perfectly fine in the wacky setting.
What I did was completely reasonable and likely the intended way to play the gamemode. Anything less would imply the antag has little incentive to avoid getting caught and there was no logical reason not to destroy an item that can only be used by a heretic. He still had the ability to play the round and even perform some antagonist stuff (and in a normal round he would've been able to resume his abilities if he managed to catch another heretic, but he was likely a result of a tc trade) and while we had mercy for James, his antagonist is based around gibbing people and when james deemed me a threat to him he had no issue permanently removing me. As an antagonist who grows in power when left unchecked, checking him as early as possible is how you're supposed to combat them, and the fact that with his items returned to him he was unstoppable and gibbed several others and cremated me. If the antagonist is designed to be extremely unkind to other players and to be best stopped as soon as possible, being kind enough to leave him alive and still able to act as an antag and in normal rounds possibly regain their abilities is more than enough mercy. flat out giving the items back to james was a spit in the face to me and the other officers involved in his arrest and lead to my death, the deaths of 4+ innocents who were his targets, and the only reason my fellow officer wasn't a victim as well is because he had the objective to protect him.