[Lollerderby/Thunder12345] Spawning nukeop during rev

[ohnopigeons]

Ohnopigeons - Micks Tape
Lollerderby/Thunder12345
~ 12:00 PM EST 1/13/16

In a rev round, the lawyers and I were roleplaying and organizing a corporate revolt, with secret strategy meetings, procedural discussions, and everything in the law office. We even came up with a corporate name for our revolution group. Somewhere around 40 minutes into the round bored admins spawn a nukeop, who then proceeds to nuke the station and end the round. I don't know which admin actually pushed the button, but both seemed to be unrepentant about the nukeop and fairly disdainful about our revolution in ooc after the station was blown.

I was under the impression that rev was fairly hands-off from admins, not to mention it was still only 40 minutes in, with the revs and heads pretty much alive. Conversion might have been a bit slow but wasn't non-existent. There was 7 players out of a server total of 42 who were in the revolution when the station was destroyed, right when we were beginning our recruitment run. I'm not saying there shouldn't be admin intervention at all, but I can't think of a single good reason why this was called for.

I'm more salty that our attempt at roleplay was completely shat on by (he)admins more than the round itself being ruined to be honest. Makes me wonder why I bother at all.

[Saegrimr]

Did you really go 40 minutes without doing a single thing as rev heads?

You took twice as long as the average rev round lasts, and still did nothing.
I get that you want to do the roleplay thing, but what do you expect to happen as soon as you flash anybody? What do you expect to happen the first time anybody spots you flashing someone? Your roleplay is going right out the window as everybody smashes windows and throws spears everywhere. Except you took three times longer to get there than usual.

[ohnopigeons]

I only became a headrev myself ~30 min in. The first headrev was a bit slow on that but that was in the process of being patched. And we had already taken that into account; we had recruitment policies which basically were to invite people to join our corporate group and people who accepted would come into the law office for paperwork, get flashed, and offered nice corporate attire to wear. Done this way, people tend to play along.

And it wasn't like there was nothing happening at all. 1/6 of the crew was converted and there were plenty of station shenanigans that we were trying to take advantage of.

[Thunder11]

Thunder12345 here, I wasn't involved in doing this at all. IIRC there was talk from somewhere (Not sure if it was asay or deadchat) about sending in a lone operative from the time I joined (about 30 mins into the round).

[lumipharon]

Oh shit nigga, someone is actually doing something interesting with rev rather then the exact same 10 minute death match that is usually is?

Quick, nuke 'em.

Also if you're listening to dead chat when the antags are active and rp'ing instead of murderboning, that means almost everyone in dead chat are observers or suicides, so they can fuck right off.

[Zilenan91]

I think the problem here was that you chose the wrong antag for this. A Gang would've been FAR better to do this gimmick, you'd have armored suits, uzis, and basically be fucking loaded and pimped out in the fight for JUSTICE mafia style.

Revs on the other hand are a Liberian lynch mob.

[TheNightingale]

You can't do this sort of gimmick as a gang, though - the other gang probably won't, and Security almost definitely won't. RP should be rewarded, not punished - but spawning a nukeop in itself didn't have any adverse effect, it was the station being nuked that did. Maybe next time, an objective to "peacefully sabotage the corporate revolt" instead of "nuke the station"?

[ohnopigeons]

I think the problem here was that you chose the wrong antag for this. A Gang would've been FAR better to do this gimmick, you'd have armored suits, uzis, and basically be fucking loaded and pimped out in the fight for JUSTICE mafia style.

Revs on the other hand are a Liberian lynch mob.

This wasn't a planned gimmick, there wasn't a "choosing rev antag for this", it just happened and emerged as a result of our character interactions. And anyways, none of the revs that were converted to my knowledge were acting like a "Liberian lynch mob". Even if they were, I don't really see your point.

[Zilenan91]

Rev is designed to be a Liberian lynch mob level of brutality and mindless murder. Gang is more suited to the kind of thing you were trying to do, so once again it was a case of you deciding to do a shitty antag for the gimmick and getting killed.

[ohnopigeons]

Rev is designed to be a Liberian lynch mob level of brutality and mindless murder. Gang is more suited to the kind of thing you were trying to do, so once again it was a case of you deciding to do a shitty antag for the gimmick and getting killed.

You're still not getting your point across. Are you saying that admins have free reign to fuck up antag rounds if the antags are not playing exactly to the antag's design?

Besides, this works even less in gangs, as Nightingale pointed out.

[TechnoAlchemist]

Admins are free to interrupt antag's if they think it is in the best interest of the server. I can't say if this was bad or good without having been there though.

[IrishWristWatch0]

Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

[ohnopigeons]

Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5465
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5318

This "event" was purely the responsibility of admins and, having not seen an actual explanation, completely unnecessary and wrong.

How long does it take for an admin to respond to their own complaint thread anyways.

[Shadowlight213]

This does seem similar to the deathsquad incidents.
While it wasn't a deathsquad, it was an antag that had the capability to instantly end the round for everyone and did so.

[Zilenan91]

So it was basically a Death Squad

[invisty]

0. Enforcement of these rules is at the discretion of admins.
Admins are fully accountable for any consequences should they invoke this rule. Admins are also allowed to intervene in rounds when it is in the best interest of the playerbase.

What part of the admin intervention here was in the "interest of the playerbase"? Inserting one super-antag player into the game? Ruining a (supposedly) good time people were having with RP? What merit did inserting a nukeop have on this round? For all I can see, it was as good as hitting the reset button.

Have we really got to the point where the RP content of the round is being ignored and discouraged by some administrators, or are these all just convenient accidents? This sort of administration should be discouraged, particularly as "Admins are fully accountable for any consequences should they invoke this rule."

[IrishWristWatch0]

It's one round man. One round. Shit happens. What do you want Loller to do? Resign and pay everyone in the round $100 for reparations?

[lumipharon]

I only murderboned as a non antag for one round man, one round. Why am I getting perma banned you gaybutts?

If a (non antag) player kills everyone and ends the round (ie: deliberately boh bombing) they get banned.
If an admin does the same shit, other admins just shrug.

Also gang is terrible to try this in.
Rev has one team of antags, which means at most you need all 3 revheads (who work together) to agree do the RP gimmick.
With gang, you have multiple gangs, each with their own leaders (who want to murder each other). Good luck trying to get that to work on tg.

If this was an hour where the revheads had done literally nothing, sure, send in some lings or other shit, but they were recruiting, they clearly had a goal in mind, so why shit on them just because some people can't bear the thought of not having deathmatch 35423498?

[onleavedontatme]

It's one round man. One round. Shit happens.

Pretty lazy strawman that could be used as justification to throw out 99% of the bans we give. Nobody is asking him to resign or be deadminned either (Certainly not me, lord knows I would be blacklisted a dozen times over if ruining a round as an admin was taken that seriously.)

And abusing my admin powers to fuel my contrarian shitposting, the last ban you gave was for logging out as chief engineer, which has just a bit less impact than killing literally everyone.

Final edit: I actually do think we should throw out most bans for that reason though, and that most situations, including this one, could be solved with a "hey sorry man wont make a habit of it" though, so whatever. I just take issue with "admins dont have rules!" as a response.

[oranges]

It's a lazy event but I'd rather admins pushed buttons

[peoplearestrange]

I think the issue is deadchat and other players often put pressure to speed up rounds, which means we miss out on interesting situations like this because of peer pressure. Obviously its easy to just say "don't give in to peer pressure" and let this play out. But its not quite as simple as that and people complain.

Yes I think this should have been allowed to play out the way it started, it was an interesting gimmick and a break from the normal rev round. However sadly the server seems to have moved away from patients in favour of quick, standard, round types.

Honestly I think loller was wrong in this instant, however, having done the same myself, all you can do is apologise and try to be more situationaly aware and try to entertain deadchat it other ways while those carry on with there situation.

TLDR: IMHO a mistake was made, we need to learn from this and move forward.

[imblyings]

It's better to end rounds/add spice by hooking into whatever is going on at the time

A nuke op might have been totally fine if it had been worked into the declaration of a corporate revolt, maybe the nuke ops thought the revs were a silly joke but were going to play them for long enough to get the disk or something like that. Try to acknowledge what's going on in the round when you do press buttons it usually helps.

[J_Madison]

This is ridiculous that admins are defending the act of walking over other players like doormats and stating "lol its out of ur control" when those players don't want to be treated like doormats.

The hardest word in the English language, and this forum is "sorry". This thread shouldn't have gotten more than 15 replies. All you had todo was follow an example like Shaps' on my thread by apologising and learning from a mistake.


How hard is it to own up to your mistake and say "sorry" then learn from that mistake by not making the same mistake in future "tone it down"/"won't do it again".

The lack of responsibility is ridiculous. How about you keep your fingers out of the pie for once and let things play out.

We're not allowed to valid ERPers but you're allowed to fuck with the round?

No, players are not your doormats.
No, not everyone wants their round messed with - keep your hands out of the oven and fingers off the food, Guy Fieri.

Edit: Kor is god damn right.
Edit 2: this isn't directed to anyone in particular. It's a general statement to all.

[Hibbles]

JMad, do me a favor and read the posts literally directly above your own.

Far as I can see, the real lesson here is 'make sure the antags actually are doing nothing before you send more', as a general rule.

[Wyzack]

>injecting your anti ERP agenda into a completely unrelated admin complaint

dude are you totally serious? I am not ERP's biggest fan but you really need to chill out on that shit

[J_Madison]

>injecting your anti ERP agenda into a completely unrelated admin complaint

dude are you totally serious? I am not ERP's biggest fan but you really need to chill out on that shit

Sorry. It wasn't intentional. I was trying to draw light on the fact it's not acceptable to be a dick and ruin an individual's round as a player, but people defend an admin ruining everyone's round.

I didn't mean to bring ERP into it. I could do other examples.

[lumipharon]

JMad, do me a favor and read the posts literally directly above your own.

Far as I can see, the real lesson here is 'make sure the antags actually are doing nothing before you send more', as a general rule.

Considering loller hasn't even posted in the thread, and its just been other admins trying to justify his actions, then yeah, J-mad is 100% right.
Mistakes happen, but if you're trying to justify your mistakes rather then learning from them, then that's a problem.

[firecage]

Honestly? This sounds like an incredibly drawn out and dull round. Like extended+. And I can easily see people getting pissy, especially with barely fuckall happening after 40 minutes during a rev round. Heck, even if this was traitor with the traitors doing nothing, nuke with the ops doing nothing, or wizard with the wizard doing nothing to enhance the round and move it along, admins SHOULD be entitled to intervene and cause fun.

[TheNightingale]

They weren't doing 'nothing', though - they just simply weren't killing everyone and flashing everyone. A peaceful revolution is still a revolution.

[firecage]

No Nightingale, it is basically doing nothing what they did by essentially turning it into extended+. I would say the admin was within full rights to do this.

[ohnopigeons]

Honestly? This sounds like an incredibly drawn out and dull round. Like extended+. And I can easily see people getting pissy, especially with barely fuckall happening after 40 minutes during a rev round. Heck, even if this was traitor with the traitors doing nothing, nuke with the ops doing nothing, or wizard with the wizard doing nothing to enhance the round and move it along, admins SHOULD be entitled to intervene and cause fun.

Fun? Yes, I agree. Round-ending "lolnukeop" antag with absolutely no connection to the events in the round? I don't think so. Had things gone like Ausops suggested there would pretty much be zero issues, but that is exactly what didn't happen.

There was plenty of funny stuff already happening outside the revolution, like leadership fights which were keeping the crew entertained. I've sat through rounds which were significantly more boring and dull where admins did absolutely nothing.

Can we please not speculate how boring or dull the round was and have people who were actually there comment on that instead?

[oranges]

Players don't have or deserve the right to an uninterrupted round imo

[lollerderby]

This is long overdue for a response from me but I've been really busy lately.

At the time I had expected that the ~40 people on station would be able to handle a single lone op that was going in loud in the absence of any other antagonist driven conflict, but in retrospect sending in an antagonist with the capacity for ending the round, no matter how improbable, was not exactly a great decision. Sorry I ruined you round.

[ohnopigeons]

This is long overdue for a response from me but I've been really busy lately.

At the time I had expected that the ~40 people on station would be able to handle a single lone op that was going in loud in the absence of any other antagonist driven conflict, but in retrospect sending in an antagonist with the capacity for ending the round, no matter how improbable, was not exactly a great decision. Sorry I ruined you round.

Thank you, that's all I needed to hear. I appreciate it, I really do.

I consider this resolved.