[NikNakFlak] Iamgoofball - Unprofessional Behavior

[iamgoofball]

Byond account and character name: Iamgoofball, Not Relevant
Admin: NikNakFlak
Time incident occured: 10:45~ PM PST, 1/23/2016
Detailed summary:
I'm working on a big change to botany, and so I joined OOC on sybil to talk about it with the players of the server.

OOC is the best way to talk to the players, due to effectively going directly to the source.
The Issue Tracker on github is for serious bug related discussion, not for discussing features.
The Forums have maybe 10-20%~ of the amount of players reading it and participating in discussions than the actual server.
Singulo is singulo. Not a good place to go for actual discussion about a feature or planned changes.

I'm discussing with Zilenan9 and other players on OOC about the feature, provide a teaser pastebin, make some jokes with the players about it, when I get muted from OOC all of the sudden. When I inquire about the mute and state that I'm trying to talk to players about new planned features, my adminhelp gets rejected. I respond with a demand to know the muting admin so I can file a complaint, and am ignored until I ask MrStonedOne on IRC to provide me with the info to make a complaint, which he supplies.

I'm here now making a complaint, because I feel this is absolutely unprofessional behavior. No reason has been provided, and the insulting "rejected adminhelp" is effectively a big "fuck you" to me. The fact that I also had to go directly to the host to get information on who to make this complaint about also is atrocious behavior, and reflects badly on everyone. I have the right to make a complaint, and shouldn't have to bypass all of administration to get the information I need to make one.

I'm trying to get my work done as a coder. I have a reputation of making changes players dislike. When I get muted for trying to talk to players and get their feedback on future changes to the game they play to help improve relations between players and I, it's absolutely disgusting and downright unprofessional of NikNakFlak to silence me and prevent me from doing my job, and looks bad for the entire administration team.

You're better than this man, why'd you have to be a dick about it?

[iamgoofball]

Niknak had this to say in the IRC:


The "im gonna ruin a department" shit was so that the discussion started off with a friendly environment by joking around with the players with humor they like to use. Judging by player response, this was working and accepted. Being muted for having a friendly chat with players and talking with them about features I'm trying to add to the game is really discouraging to trying to talk with players.

Outright refusing to post in the thread, and having this cocky "i can say whatever" attitude is so goddamn unprofessional I feel like we're in the 3rd grade here.

Also, if you're "too busy" then why weren't you busy enough to not mute me in OOC for no good reason and act this cocky about it? Do you think you're invincible or some shit?

edit: Oh, I was also informed by LZIMANN that he was the one who rejected my adminhelp. This is also rather unprofessional but I'm less angry about that than the current topic.

[TechnoAlchemist]

As much as I love looking for excuses to mute Goof because I am still bitter and mourning trekchems - I think this was a bit of an overreaction to the lowest severity of shilling.

If goofball was more obnoxious about it then maybe... maybe? I could see it being valid, but it was a pretty chill link, he was pretty civil about it.

(What is lethal as balls and not logged?)

[Zilenan91]

All goof did was say a joke that was completely obvious and NikNak is behaving like this?

It's inconsistent too. I was talking about sexual slavery of animals in the same "tone" as goofball was talking about "ruining" the department and I didn't get muted.

[lzimann]

I won't take a side in wheter muting you was too much or not. But sorry for the reject, was really rude on my part.

[iamgoofball]

I won't take a side in wheter muting you was too much or not. But sorry for the reject, was really rude on my part.

It's cool man, not your fault.

[iamgoofball]

Lollerderby responded with this in the IRC:

[lumipharon]

Shit changes or not (I have no idea, haven't seen them), why would you mute him for it? We go out of our way to (at least claim) we want playerfeed back for game changes. That's what he's doing.
Also acting like a prick in IRC after the fact is HG tier arrogance.

[Tsaricide]

Goofball does annoying stuff like this all the time on server though.

[iamgoofball]

Goofball does annoying stuff like this all the time on server though.

I didn't know that trying to be on good terms with players is annoying. Mind explaining why?

[Saegrimr]

It's probably not the best idea to go and directly antagonize people by claiming you're about to ruin a department.

I mean a LOT of people are still salty over you fucking up chemistry.

[iamgoofball]

It's probably not the best idea to go and directly antagonize people by claiming you're about to ruin a department.

I mean a LOT of people are still salty over you fucking up chemistry.

Anyone who would assume I'm serious when I say "about to ruin a department" and other shit like that really needs to get their internet sarcasm detector fixed, and judging by the reaction of the players, everyone had their internet sarcasm detectors on and functioning as intended.

[peoplearestrange]

Can I ask what the link contained that you posted and what exactly are you supposedly coding?

[TheNightingale]

The link: http://pastebin.com/raw/j2d531TP
It's just a text file with some farm animal code.

[iamgoofball]

Can I ask what the link contained that you posted and what exactly are you supposedly coding?

I'm coding a big project, basically botany is gonna be able to raise and darwin their animals in a ranch till they have the perfect chicken that spews CLF3 vomit and shits out enough black powder eggs to make Hiroshima blush, with it being a greedy eater who talks a lot about whatever it overheard from the botanists that is over-protective of its eggs.

basically animal breeding

[capi duffman]

That updates's hardly terrible if you ask me, I could look forward to the guys in botanics being able to do more and have more interesting jobs (So I can usually find at least one botanist supplying me with ingredients)
So he looks for player feedback, something to appreciate, and he's friendly about it, the correct approach, and the part of ruining a department is clearly a joke.

This mute is quite uncalled for.

[iamgoofball]

This was a mute, not a ban, hence why this is in admincomplaints

[lollerderby]

This mute looks to have been entirely unnecessary and if you're going to mute someone you should at least have the decency to explain why in-game if they ask.

[tedward1337]

Tbh niknak has muted people before and didn't give a reason. Personally I think that's something to work on Nik.

[iamgoofball]

So is he getting punished or not?

[iamgoofball]

Also, I was digging around old admin complaints, and found this gem.
https://www.tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewt ... =23&t=4321

It appears you basically did the exact same thing as you did here(silent mute from X communication method, refusal to reply with info about why the mute occured, except this time you muted him from ahelp when he tried to inquire), with everyone in that thread including admins agreeing that this was shit behavior, with the current headmin at the time demanding that we inform him if he does this shit again.



Quite obviously, you had your fingers crossed behind your back when you agreed to this.

We also just had this discussion in OOC which resulted in these fun discussions:
When the admin complaint was brought up after niknak threw a hissy fit over me chatting with the players:

Him claiming I "dont take feedback" even though that's literally what I was on the server to do:


Do we need any more evidence of niknakflak being immature as hell or is this enough yet?

edit: even more fuel for the fire, when I linked this post to him so he would come respond to the thread or read it at least:

[Zilenan91]

OOC: NikNakflak: fyi I still dont give a fuck

Yeah he just seems to have a really shitty and dismissive attitude towards everyone.

[Hornygranny]

niknak is suspended until they reply to this thread and address the issue

[NikNakFlak]

I'll just be honest.
Goofball's obnoxious and awful. He started spouting memes alittle before his "feedback gathering" and I just muted him on the spot. He has a history with sitting in the lobby and just going on and on and on. I love to bring up the example where he made an alt just to shill a PR of his. He makes such a fine line between shitposting about code and "gathering feedback" that I just muted him before it all really. Freaking the fuck out over what was like a 20 minute mute this much is just I dunno. I'm just bad when it comes to mutes I guess, but goofball is one of those big OOC shitposters. He was literally doing nothing but posting ascii dicks the same day earlier. (Just saw it when I had to gather the below logs, thought it was funny). I don't speak for any other admin except myself but just look at the asay. (The lzimann backpedaling is kinda funny in my opinion.) I just think goofball is an obnoxious plague upon OOC. Even when he had people "give feedback" later in the day, pretty much the only one who responded was zilenan. I'm not gonna say, no one but zilenan did, but it was mostly just zilenan and goofball. I wasn't gonna post in the thread because goofball is just awful to deal with but whatever. The screenshots that goofball posted about me saying I don't give a fuck are also cherrypicked and there is more to that conversation that he left out. I however, can no longer pull logs.

[06:46:58]ADMIN: NikNakflak/(Pavel Rozenne) has muted iamgoofball/(Iamgoofball) from OOC
[06:47:10]ADMIN: ASAY: TechnoAlchemist/(Bones McGee) : admincomplaint incoming
[06:47:17]ADMIN: ASAY: Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer) : incoming ahelp
[06:47:21]ADMIN: HELP: Iamgoofball/(Iamgoofball): What the fuck man, I'd like to discuss planned features with players. - heard by 4 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[06:47:29]ADMIN: Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer) Rejected Iamgoofball's admin help
[06:47:51]ADMIN: HELP: Iamgoofball/(Iamgoofball): I want to know what admin muted me so I can file a complaint. - heard by 4 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[07:08:00]ADMIN: HELP: Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla): https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5695 - heard by 4 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[07:08:04]ADMIN: NikNakflak/(Pavel Rozenne) Rejected Iamgoofball's admin help
[07:08:28]ADMIN: PM: TechnoAlchemist/(Bones McGee)->Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla): I don't think that adminhelping it really accomplished anything then let niknak be more cheeky
[07:08:45]ADMIN: PM: Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla)->TechnoAlchemist/(Bones McGee): That just proves my complaint to be even more valid.
[07:08:49]ADMIN: ASAY: Shaps/(Phoebe Lotsu) : le "HEY GUYS IM RUINING NEW THING PAY ATTENTION TO ME" posting
[07:08:50]ADMIN: PM: Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer)->Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla): The adminhelp reject was me and not Niknak btw.
[07:08:57]ADMIN: ASAY: Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer) : and he deserved
[07:09:22]ADMIN: ASAY: TechnoAlchemist/(Bones McGee) : dotdotdot no comment
[07:09:26]ADMIN: PM: Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla)->Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer): The old reject or the new one?
[07:09:49]ADMIN: PM: Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer)->Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla): The only one that you received.
[07:10:03]ADMIN: ASAY: TechnoAlchemist/(Bones McGee) : he received multiple
[07:10:03]ADMIN: PM: Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla)->Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer): I've had 2 rejects, one from earlier when I got muted and the one from when I ahelped the admin complaint.
[07:11:22]ADMIN: PM: Lzimann/(Lzimann)->Iamgoofball/(Iamgoofball): The one after you got muted.
[07:11:42]ADMIN: ASAY: Shaps/(Shaps) : >dealing with goof
[07:11:45]ADMIN: ASAY: Shaps/(Shaps) : glhf
[07:11:49]ADMIN: Shaps deadmined themself.
[07:11:51]ADMIN: ASAY: Lzimann/(Lzimann) : ay
[07:11:54]ADMIN: PM: Iamgoofball/(Iamgoofball)->Lzimann/(Lzimann): I'm gonna add your name to the complaint then. That reject was effectively a big "fuck you" towards me for trying to inquire about why I was muted.
[07:12:09]ADMIN: PM: Lzimann/(Lzimann)->Iamgoofball/(Iamgoofball): Go ahead.[07:14:34]ADMIN: ASAY: Lzimann/(Lzimann) : >hey guys i'm ruining another department look at me!!
[07:14:39]ADMIN: ASAY: Lzimann/(Lzimann) : >gets muted and complain

[iamgoofball]

I'll just be honest.
Goofball's obnoxious and awful.

Not even relevant. This has nothing to do with your behavior, and if it does than that's immature as hell.

He started spouting memes alittle before his "feedback gathering" and I just muted him on the spot.

Once again, I'm not allowed to joke around with players? Players communicate in memes. As I've stated over and over and over and over and over again, I use memes to make the players happier and more willing to talk to me.

He has a history with sitting in the lobby and just going on and on and on.

Yes, I'm talking with players about features or joking around with them about stuff. I don't count towards the playercount in the lobby. I'm not taking up jobs. I'm using the best method of talking to players. Please see the OP about why this is the case.

I love to bring up the example where he made an alt just to shill a PR of his.

Both times I have used alt accounts with PRs, it was when I was attempting to do a PR under a name OTHER than Iamgoofball. The point of that was to have a PR not made by Iamgoofball and without my name attached. This was disallowed by the headcoders, and is now irrelevant.

He makes such a fine line between shitposting about code and "gathering feedback" that I just muted him before it all really.

Once again, players communicate in memes and shitposting, they are more willing to talk if you shitpost with them, etc etc.

Freaking the fuck out over what was like a 20 minute mute this much is just I dunno.

As I've told you multiple times and is stated in the topic name of this thread, this is about Unprofessional Behavior on your end.

I'm just bad when it comes to mutes I guess, but goofball is one of those big OOC shitposters.

That's your opinion.

He was literally doing nothing but posting ascii dicks the same day earlier. (Just saw it when I had to gather the below logs, thought it was funny).

It was part of joking around with players. Once again, am I not allowed to joke around with players? You keep dodging this question. I don't speak for any other admin except myself but just look at the asay. (The lzimann backpedaling is kinda funny in my opinion.)

I just think goofball is an obnoxious plague upon OOC.

That's your opinion. I don't see how that's a good reason for any of this.

Even when he had people "give feedback" later in the day, pretty much the only one who responded was zilenan. I'm not gonna say, no one but zilenan did, but it was mostly just zilenan and goofball.

Why is this relevant?

I wasn't gonna post in the thread because goofball is just awful to deal with but whatever.

Dude. Do I even need to say anything here?

The screenshots that goofball posted about me saying I don't give a fuck are also cherrypicked and there is more to that conversation that he left out. I however, can no longer pull logs.

If you pull logs if MSO provides them, it'd be apparently that the shit about not giving a fuck is in reference to this complaint. Even then, the rest of the images I've provided show that you are most likely talking about the complaint EVEN WITHOUT the parts where you outright clarify that you're talking about this thread.

[06:46:58]ADMIN: NikNakflak/(Pavel Rozenne) has muted iamgoofball/(Iamgoofball) from OOC
[06:47:10]ADMIN: ASAY: TechnoAlchemist/(Bones McGee) : admincomplaint incoming
[06:47:17]ADMIN: ASAY: Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer) : incoming ahelp
[06:47:21]ADMIN: HELP: Iamgoofball/(Iamgoofball): What the fuck man, I'd like to discuss planned features with players. - heard by 4 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[06:47:29]ADMIN: Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer) Rejected Iamgoofball's admin help
[06:47:51]ADMIN: HELP: Iamgoofball/(Iamgoofball): I want to know what admin muted me so I can file a complaint. - heard by 4 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
Where's all the asay logs between these two helps? Where's the discussion about this? Was nothing said? If so, that reflects badly on all of you.
[07:08:00]ADMIN: HELP: Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla): https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5695 - heard by 4 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[07:08:04]ADMIN: NikNakflak/(Pavel Rozenne) Rejected Iamgoofball's admin help
[07:08:28]ADMIN: PM: TechnoAlchemist/(Bones McGee)->Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla): I don't think that adminhelping it really accomplished anything then let niknak be more cheeky
[07:08:45]ADMIN: PM: Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla)->TechnoAlchemist/(Bones McGee): That just proves my complaint to be even more valid.
[07:08:49]ADMIN: ASAY: Shaps/(Phoebe Lotsu) : le "HEY GUYS IM RUINING NEW THING PAY ATTENTION TO ME" posting
[07:08:50]ADMIN: PM: Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer)->Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla): The adminhelp reject was me and not Niknak btw.
[07:08:57]ADMIN: ASAY: Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer) : and he deserved
[07:09:22]ADMIN: ASAY: TechnoAlchemist/(Bones McGee) : dotdotdot no comment
[07:09:26]ADMIN: PM: Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla)->Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer): The old reject or the new one?
[07:09:49]ADMIN: PM: Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer)->Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla): The only one that you received.
[07:10:03]ADMIN: ASAY: TechnoAlchemist/(Bones McGee) : he received multiple
[07:10:03]ADMIN: PM: Iamgoofball/(Nikola Tesla)->Lzimann/(Leo Pfeifer): I've had 2 rejects, one from earlier when I got muted and the one from when I ahelped the admin complaint.
[07:11:22]ADMIN: PM: Lzimann/(Lzimann)->Iamgoofball/(Iamgoofball): The one after you got muted.
[07:11:42]ADMIN: ASAY: Shaps/(Shaps) : >dealing with goof
[07:11:45]ADMIN: ASAY: Shaps/(Shaps) : glhf
[07:11:49]ADMIN: Shaps deadmined themself.
[07:11:51]ADMIN: ASAY: Lzimann/(Lzimann) : ay
[07:11:54]ADMIN: PM: Iamgoofball/(Iamgoofball)->Lzimann/(Lzimann): I'm gonna add your name to the complaint then. That reject was effectively a big "fuck you" towards me for trying to inquire about why I was muted.
[07:12:09]ADMIN: PM: Lzimann/(Lzimann)->Iamgoofball/(Iamgoofball): Go ahead.
[07:14:34]ADMIN: ASAY: Lzimann/(Lzimann) : >hey guys i'm ruining another department look at me!!
[07:14:39]ADMIN: ASAY: Lzimann/(Lzimann) : >gets muted and complain

Now that I've seen these logs, this is absolutely horrifyingly unprofessional on the side of all the administration members involved. I look up to you guys as respectful people and you pull this sort of shit? What the FUCK. You sat there and MADE FUN OF ME FOR WANTING TO FUCKING GET SOME GODDAMN ANSWERS.

Just, WHAT THE FUCK.

[Zilenan91]

Most of asay a lot of the time is venting. Admins need that private place to rib on people to stay sane, so it's not really something you can hold against them that heavily.

[Saegrimr]

So when does coder professionalism get its own thread.

[lumipharon]

When they deliberately ignore someone that they dicked over, you kind of can.

[NikNakFlak]

The "not giving a fuck" is reference to the complaint yes, but there is still portions of that conversation that are left out and therefore it is cherry picking. If shitposting in OOC wasn't a thing that got to be overdone, Punnches woudn't be perma'd and OOCbans woudn't exist. And yep, no one said anything inbetween that adminhelp. When 5 admins don't respond, you might want to start thinking that it may be you, not everyone else. I don't know why no one did anything or responded but it's likely either they supported the mute, or that they didn't want to get involved in this awful thread and deal with you. I dunno the reasons, ask them. You can say that you want to communicate in memes all you want, you take it over the line man.

[Saegrimr]

When they deliberately ignore someone that they dicked over, you kind of can.

I'll keep this one in mind.

[Zilenan91]

There was almost none of that OOC conversation left out. Every single one of your posts in OOC were very bitter and angry while you were saying just how much you hated Goof's guts to his face and being dismissive to him when he tried to ask why you were saying this. People who weren't even involved in the situation wanted OOC muted because you were being so toxic. Both of you didn't have perfect behavior, goof especially, but you were acting straight up childish.

I missaid, you can totally hold it against them, but coming from experience, I've said some truly foul things about people in mod chat back when I moderated for a GMod server so I get where the admins are coming from there.

[lumipharon]

When they deliberately ignore someone that they dicked over, you kind of can.

I'll keep this one in mind.

Was referring to the post above.

[NikNakFlak]

That isn't the full conversation but neither can be proved without logs being pulled which someone else has to do. I said some pretty mean things including calling goof a faggot but it was mostly about how he codes and what he codes. I don't know what you want me to say? Sorry goofball that I hate what you code, how you act, how much you shitpost, and how obnoxious you are? When it comes to fighting words, I was told to fire back.

[iamgoofball]

You can say that you want to communicate in memes all you want, you take it over the line man.

How am I taking it over the line? I make the same quality jokes as players do. It's somehow worse when I do it?

[NikNakFlak]

I dunno what you want me to say. Do you want a 10 page essay on why goofball's posting is worse than me with references and examples? That's gonna not happen. Anything else you want addressed otherwise headmins please pass judgement on this because jesus I'm done

[iamgoofball]

I want you to tell me why it's bad for me to joke around with players, and why it's bad for me to shitpost when players do it just as much as I do and sometimes to an even worse extent.

[Shaps-cloud]

hi there so niknak just kinda dropped those logs with no warning or context or anything, and that section makes us admins involved there look pretty bad and unprofessional. I'd like to drop some disclaimers here.

First: Yes, I find goofball annoying at times. Personally I think he can get overly loud and extreme with the stuff that he does at times, but that doesn't mean that he should be muted anytime he talks about stuff that he's working on. I privately stated to a small group of the people I work with that I found his shtick annoying. Then, when I realized that this was probably going to turn into a huge fight, I decided to just deadmin and wash my hands of it because I really didn't feel like getting dragged into another shitfest that I didn't contribute to, and niknak can deal with the consequences of his actions on his own.

To reiterate, I think that goofball can be annoying at times, but at no point did I support abusing him, and I've even stood up for him in the past. I'm really not ecstatic about how my private opinions were thrown out there as justification for something someone else did without any heads up given to me or even any context provided for the logs.

[NikNakFlak]

That's all there is. There is no more logs and nothing else was said. What context do you want?

[iamgoofball]

Why aren't you answering my question?

[NikNakFlak]

Because I don't know what you want me to say, you ask the question like there's a simple answer or some shit. You sit in the lobby, never play and spam OOC with memes and shit. My opinion is you are a huge shitposter and I don't have anything else to say. You keep asking the same question as if there is a different answer.

[Shaps-cloud]

The logs offload responsibility for the mute on us other admins who were on at the time because we didn't stop you from doing it, rather than you owning it 100% since you were the one who carried it out. I made an active choice not to get involved by not saying "it is/isn't a good mute" and instead deadminning myself, because I didn't want to get involved in this (which I now am)

[NikNakFlak]

I never said you did anything else, but you said I dropped them with no context or warning or whatever. I was demanded to post in the thread so I posted the logs for the full situation. It's the full logs and I have to answer to this complaint. I'm gonna pass out soon so let's just get this resolved one way or another.

[iamgoofball]

Okay, let me rephrase it, since you keep playing dumb.

You said I crossed the line. If this is a line that all players must abide by, then why aren't players getting muted constantly? Because they cross the line far far more than I do.

Of course, this obviously isn't the case since players aren't getting muted.

WHAT is the "line", WHAT is crossing the "line", and WHY is this "line" not the same "line" that the players have to cross to get muted?

[NikNakFlak]

Pretty much everyone else plays the game and doesn't go on and on and on in OOC. You say they cross the line but I say they don't and neither can be proven unless someone combs the OOC logs forever so whatever. No doubt I'll be told not to mute anyone ever again and from now one, feel free to shitpost in OOC to your hearts content and I won't mute because it is wrong of me. I disagree with this but headmins are just gonna tell me that I'm wrong again. I still think you are obnoxious, and I still think you are a shitposter and I still think you use the "le people shit on goofball" meme as an excuse to say that people shit on you as a meme and not because they actually disagree with you as a person. The mute was wrong and I have issues with muting people as can seen by all my complaints but at the same time, I think you should rethink how you deal with people as well.

[TechnoAlchemist]

those asay logs accomplished and proved nothing for either side not sure why they were posted.

[NikNakFlak]

They were posted so people could see the full situation from the asay side. I've said all Im going to.

[Docprofsmith]

It looks an awful lot more like you dropped those logs as a way to say "see goof, everyone hates you, it was justified". Now believe me I am experienced with hatebans etc recently and all I can say is that it's piss poor practice from me or anyone. I expected a lot better from you Nik.

This was a piss poor decision and a bad thing to do even if goof is an annoying for who breaks departments.

[NikNakFlak]

Yea Im just kinda completely in the wrong tbh. Punish me.

[iamgoofball]

Yeah, now that I think about it, those logs being posted do seem like a "b-b-but everyone else was doing it" copout on niknak's part

"Everyone else was abusing goofball!" - NikNakFlak
"Everyone else was holocausting the jews!" - Nazis

[Saegrimr]

Yeah, now that I think about it, those logs being posted do seem like a "b-b-but everyone else was doing it" copout on niknak's part

"Everyone else was abusing goofball!" - NikNakFlak
"Everyone else was holocausting the jews!" - Nazis

WE DID IT, WE REACHED GODWIN'S LAW!