Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

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PathOfChaos1
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Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by PathOfChaos1 » #193938

Byond account, and character name: pathofchaos1 - Kevin Walker (Warden)

Admin: TechnoAlchemist

Time incident occured: 2016-07-08 Some time during the round that ended at 4:42AM ish. (Central US time)

Detailed summary: So a Traitor Lizard(Is-a-Lizard) was Dual Eswording it up in science. I saw it the AI saw it. Another lizard(Imbibes-The-Liqour){w/e his name] who looks almost exactly like him took the fall. AI had set that lizard to arrest, beepsky got him Ai was tracking him. He matched the description of the other lizard the actual traitor. The witness. Raymond Magor stated he picked up the dual esword from the traitor lizard (as my detective who I sent to investigate it said) Now for all intents, and purposes Ai, and security was sure this lizard did it. The only reason he was released, and the real traitor was captured was TechnoAlchemist stepped in. So what happened in the end was A traitor got his round ruined because admins stepped in, and released the guy who took the fall. I was given to much round information being clearly given the "this guy didnt do it" from the admin.

P.s. I understand sitting in perma sucks..... but you can be borged. If you took the fall for A traitor and the sec team, and Ai were the ones who got you perma-ed I know it sucks but that's part of the game... getting other people to take the fall. it makes me worried that I cant set people up in fear that an admin may think "The sec team". or myself didn't do enough to pin it to the guy... and all its doing is basically shitting on the antag who got sec team to mistake him for someone else.
Thank you for reading my post. I'm sorry Techno you are a cool admin, but these kinds of things cant be tolerated.
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TechnoAlchemist
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by TechnoAlchemist » #193943

yeah i'm here to make sure people have fun and i'm not gonna let some random schmuck get taken out of the round forever because they look similar to another person.
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J_Madison
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by J_Madison » #193945

TechnoAlchemist wrote:yeah i'm here to make sure people have fun and i'm not gonna let some random schmuck get taken out of the round forever because they look similar to another person.
IC character Issue.
If your IC character is causing you issues, it's your duty to change it and admins should not intervene unless it becomes a case of serious metagrudge.

If you play a green lizard and another green lizard gets you arrested, either change your character or suck it up and accept that you look similar, you're playing a snowflake race, and welcome to traitor.
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PathOfChaos1
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by PathOfChaos1 » #193948

To be honest he wasnt "permanently" taken out of the round. I had asked if he wanted to be borged, and in my spare time I did try and talk with prisoners, but besides the point.

I would rather take a sec job ban/ reprimand. To give the person who is using "Is-a-lizard" an Antag token, because you shit all over his round Techno yeah a guy got mistaken and took the fall for a lizard antag, and the evidence we did have pointed to him. To be honest "permanently" taken out of the round isnt even really a thing we have respawn sleepers on lavaland, and in space. You could of worked with him Techno to give him some complimentary role like Ian, or friendly space wiz/ninja. Anything else than what you chose to do. You save 1 guys round to ruin another... who happened to be an antag who had all his objectives done, and was in the clear for greentext.
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by IrishWristWatch0 » #193974

Gunna have to go with J_mad on this one. Sounds like an IC issue. If you can get someone else to take the fall for you that makes your traitor round way more exciting and awesome. Sucks for that guy but that's part of the game.
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by Thunder11 » #193992

Unless there's something about the situation not said here, I see no reason for admin intervention. Security caught what they believed to be the suspect, real traitor got away free until Techno stepped in to tell them they had the wrong guy. This sort of frame up is the sort of shit that makes SS13 funny, it doesn't need admins to discourage any sort of creative thinking beyond murderboning by stepping in to tell security whether they caught the right guy or not.
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by Lumbermancer » #193996

There are still ways for Admin to intervene while preserving the sanctity of IC. Maybe send a letter to law office detailing the case, or if there's no lawyers pull a ghost to be a Jew Lawyer sent by NT to represent a framed ligga.

You can help the innocent and foster fun RP.
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IrishWristWatch0
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by IrishWristWatch0 » #194032

Lumbermancer wrote:There are still ways for Admin to intervene while preserving the sanctity of IC. Maybe send a letter to law office detailing the case, or if there's no lawyers pull a ghost to be a Jew Lawyer sent by NT to represent a framed ligga.

You can help the innocent and foster fun RP.
I mean you could interfere but it probably would have been best to not interfere at all as it is primarily an IC issue. It sucks for the wrongly convicted but it's part of the game.
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by Lumbermancer » #194037

Admins already interfere by trading TC's and deploying meme antags, so I'm not sure why that's suddenly a line that need not to be crossed.
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by Wyzack » #194039

How is doing TC trades for stuff even remotely the same as an admin intervening specifically to screw over an antag who got someone wrongly convicted for his crimes?
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Lumbermancer
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by Lumbermancer » #194049

Because the first thing affects the whole round more than the latter.
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by IrishWristWatch0 » #194057

TC trades are a different kind of interfering than what happened here. Let's try to keep on about the interfering with what the complaint is about.
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Wyzack
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by Wyzack » #194059

Okay but one of those things adds something new to the round to prevent it being another bog standard tator/tatorling round, and consequences are in the hands of the players. The other is just intervening with an admin scalpel to undo a specific action.

Actually i think i misread the conversation. I definitely agree with you that Techno could still have intervened without just blatantly fucking over the tator tot, i thought you were arguing that TC trades were the same as what Techno did here. my bad
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by Zilenan91 » #194061

The thing Techno did here was prevent one player from getting shit on for absolutely no reason and I think that's fine personally

It likely wouldn't have been done if gulagging someone wasn't a 2 click process now.
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TechnoAlchemist
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by TechnoAlchemist » #194081

Getting shit on for misunderstandings is part of the game, I understand that. Had it not been so late in the night, I probably would have done something more subtle to get the person in perma out, however, they ahelped and I sympathized with them so I just stepped in and helped them.

I'm not saying that every misunderstanding should be brought OOC, but this one was, and I stand by helping that player in this instance.
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by J_Madison » #194083

Do you feel you have an obligation to do something for someone because someone else affected their game?

That's slipping into the territory of messing with rounds simply because you don't like the way they're going; ergo keep your hands off the round.
You shouldn't be affecting the round unless absolutely necessary, and in this case your rash decision to deliberately step in and change someone's round has spiralled into multiple people's rounds being affected.

Besides, it's ONE ROUND. What's so hard as to not mess with someone's round and just let them be.

Nothing pisses me off as an antag when an admin messes up the round. If I orchestrated a setup and framing of someone else, I sure as shit wouldn't appreciate an admin undoing all of my work, planning, and opportunity because of another individual taking the fall.

That's what antags are for.
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by Atlanta-Ned » #194084

J_Mad is still spot on.
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by Zilenan91 » #194085

That would only be valid if Is made an effort to mask his tracks though. Everyone knew Is did it, but they thought it was someone with a completely different name and similar looks for some reason.
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by oranges » #194108

bad
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cyfause
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by cyfause » #195599

PathOfChaos1 wrote:The witness. Raymond Magor stated he picked up the dual esword from the traitor lizard (as my detective who I sent to investigate it said)
This may be a bit off topic, (I am the lizard "Imbibes-The-Liquors," by the way) but if the detective was there at the crimescene, why were no prints scanned? I don't understand how perma-by-anecdotal-evidence should be allowed - factual, concrete evidence should be provided if someone's getting executed/borged/perma'd/gulagged. I could understand being detained while an investigation was put under way, that would have been an interesting thing to see and I'd be all for it. But wordlessly being taken, brought to brig, and THEN spoken to (also with "filthy ligger" thrown in there, iirc) that I'm being put in perma - of course, I was given the option of being a borg.
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In summation, I don't understand how this circumstance could have been an "IC" issue. Perhaps, it may have been an issue of security's incompetence, IC-ly. But I don't believe that should be allowed. Permabrig/execution/borging/gulag over anectodal evidence, especially when the "criminal" isn't resisting arrest in the slightest... I do not believe this is proper conduct for a member of security. Be it a security officer, the head of security - even a warden. Multiple times, I'd asked for a lawyer, which was not responded to in the slightest. I refrained from yelling over comms and causing a ruckus UNTIL I was processed and placed into perma. Nobody would care to hold a court case for someone who's falsely permabrigged though - the game goes too fast for any IC issues to be resolved in such a way.

Perhaps this issue extends further than just this isolated case. In Character issues rarely get resolved other than "x guy murders y," from what I've personally experienced. I know - anecdotal evidence, you're a hypocrite, but please bare with me. I believe the problem herein lies upon sociology/psychology/what have you. Sibyl is more fit, or equipped with players who prefer the high-action, frantic, quick-round style of gameplay. Perhaps, Bagil is for me, perhaps I should stop "being such a pussy" over being headed for permanent detainment over simple anecdotal evidence. As was said, it was only what my character looked like that they had to go on for evidence of any kind. Nobody had procured any alibi for me - I doubt anyone would pay any heed to what I was doing, I was an assistant.

I know I had already said "in summation," but for real this time, the issue lays not on TechnoAlchemist, nor PathOfChaos1, in my personal opinion. I think it's a case of "fish out of water." Or, "fish in another aquarium than it's used to." I'm just not suited for Sibyl's style of gameplay, and nobody should really be punished for it in my genuine, honest-to-goodness opinion.
I extend my apologies towards the traitor that had their round "ruined" - but honestly, two sides mayhaps rest on a fulcrum of either being ruined by any action, as well as inaction. There's no right or wrong here, in my always-expressed opinion throughout this document I'm writing. I'm sorry- though, not genuinely sorry, for "ruining your greentext-" I don't quite understand why the enjoyment of one's individual matters, personally, to anyone, over the enjoyment of another's round. (I'm led to believe it's not all that hard to roll for antag. I always have antag turned off, yet every occasional time I turn it on, I get it 100% of the time.)

I hope this post means something to someone. I put a lot of my heartfelt opinions into it.
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by Oldman Robustin » #196951

Lumbermancer wrote:Admins already interfere by trading TC's and deploying meme antags, so I'm not sure why that's suddenly a line that need not to be crossed.
The line is pretty clear. TC trades are something that:

1) Maintains the "IC sanctity" of player interactions

2) Do not result in admins directly interfering with other players

3) No involuntary bwoinking

Whereas getting involved in security's mistake is interacting with the crew on an extremely intrusive level. The security getting reprimanded has to make up some stuff about "God" telling them they got the wrong guy. The traitor's successful ruse is now undone by an admin.

I don't think Techno was that far in the wrong here, it sucks trying to stop security from wrongfully murdering people without getting too involved in the round. I do think that this level of involvement should be avoided though when you can just free the lizard later by tossing him some escape tools or something and letting it all play out IC.
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by peoplearestrange » #198340

Not really actionable anymore seeing as TA has left the admin team completely.
I'll wait for the all clear from a head and then resolve this.
Whatever
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Re: Complaint against TechnoAlchemist

Post by Shaps-cloud » #198341

What PAS said
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