/tg/Station 13

Byond account and character name: Repukan - Donatello Versus

Admin: HotelBravoLima

Time incident occured: 7/29/16, Around 1:30 PM. Don't remember the time exactly.

Detailed summary: Another Shaft Miner and I got traitor roles. We decide to team up, and combine our objectives. These were:

1) Steal Plutonium core
2) Kill a Cook
3) Steal advanced magboots
4) Hijack the shuttle and ensure no one leaves alive aboard.

We subvert the mining borg on the station, and wait until I finish digging up artifacts to roll our luck. I get lucky with a meat hook, so we decide to tell the borg to kill tcomms before making a rendezvous in holodeck. We meet up, and attempt to raid the armory. Captain sees us, opens fire, we retreat, heal up, and try again, finally killing the captain, grabbing his access, and gaining the armory. We kill some crewmembers, I inform the other traitor that, to not extend things any longer, I will call the shuttle so we just rush our objectives. Other antag agrees, call the shuttle, finish off the rest of the crew, and make a quick check near arrivals to see if the Moby Carp hunter (an admin event.) returned to tell him to take a pod. However, me and the borg are warmly greeted by an ert armed with ions and pulses, who immediately open fire on us and shoot us down. Death chat salt ensues, and I ask who requested the ert before finding out it was spawned by admin because ghost salt.

Now, the reason for this complaint is two things.

I've played a lot of rounds in this server, and I've seen a lot. One can notice what seems to be a "consistency" between how admins react to certain play styles. However, this is a first. Since when is it deemed acceptable to chuck a giant armored "fuck you."

Which brings me to my second point. Why is it acceptable the other traitor, the borg, and I had to succumb to the armored team because of the whims of an administrator, who on deadchat and OOC, expressed his distaste for murderboning? Aren't admins supposed to be impartial in their ruling, or at least strive to be? I just want to know if its an acceptable thing to do, say you messed with something because you disliked its execution, and then say "rules says my decision is final so i'm right."

Thank you for your time.

When you've got an "escape alone" objective it's pretty harsh for the admin to dump on you for murderbone. Especially if you actually called the shuttle rather than recall-prolonging it.

You thought you were gonna take out the entire station? Why can't you just git gud and take out the ERT?

>Murderbone
>Get dunked by ERT
>Get mad

This is pretty par for the course, admins drop shit to waste muderboners pretty frequently, not sure why this is news to you.

> spawning ERT on antag with hijack objective

Why is this allowed

It's not murderboning if you have an escape alone objective, you really ought to check WHY someone is killing everyone before screwing them over.

And in my experience HBL is very button happy when it comes to spawning ERT with exceptional equipment as soon as the round becomes high lethality.

This is especially dumb considering the shuttle was called.

I'm not exactly sure what else you're suppose to do for hijack shuttle past walling off escape, only to watch them literally stampede over eachother to get into the shuttle by any means necessary.

If ERT was requested by the crew then I wouldn't see the issue but directly shitting on the antag with no crew response for actually doing their objective (arguably the only decent way of doing hijack) because of deadchat salt is dumb.

MMMiracles wrote:I'm not exactly sure what else you're suppose to do for hijack shuttle past walling off escape, only to watch them literally stampede over eachother to get into the shuttle by any means necessary.

If ERT was requested by the crew then I wouldn't see the issue but directly shitting on the antag with no crew response for actually doing their objective (arguably the only decent way of doing hijack) because of deadchat salt is dumb.

It wasn't requested. And that's exactly why our jimbibles were rustled.

The ERT wasn't armed with pulse weaponry, and they fired on you because you waved a meathook in their face. There's a difference between trying to hijack the shuttle and trying to maximise your K/D ratio; if you try and kill a bunch of people (especially on lowpop), you have to expect resistance. If you can't handle that resistance when they come at you with eguns and ERT armour, get good.

Hijacking the shuttle when there are ~20 crew in three easy steps:
* Wall off Escape
* Kill anyone who gets on the shuttle
* Emag the shuttle console (with the emag you used to subvert the borg)

Alternatively...
* Go to Escape and announce your intentions to hijack the shuttle
* Gun down three people using necropolis/traitor gear and an emagged borg
* Hijack the shuttle

Or...
* Go around the station silently killing everyone you see
* Meet no resistance, because you've got necropolis/traitor gear and an emagged borg
* Defeat the ERT and ride to victory on the escape shuttle (This is where you failed)

yeah, hijack is not feasible to accomplish without any kind of murderboning

you can't kill 50+ people after they all run onto the shuttle without killing yourself in the process, and hijacking the shuttle requires it to not be blown up since you still gotta escape

* Wall off Escape

This can't be done to successfully hijack because you have to either build it before the shuttle arrives, which someone will inevitably notice and yell about it, which results in swarming crewmembers deconstructing it, OR you have to build it on the fly, which has the exact same problem as above except instant noticing by the crew

* Kill anyone who gets on the shuttle
50+ people, no matter how much gear you got you can't take on that many people without being swarmed over

* Emag the shuttle console (with the emag you used to subvert the borg)
This still takes 10 seconds for a launch, which is still enough time for people to get on. You also have to have already made it on the shuttle in the first place to do this.

TheNightingale wrote:The ERT wasn't armed with pulse weaponry

they spawn with pulse weaponry you idiot

You could always have cetcomm send some messages before sending an ERT if there isnt anyone to request one. Could be something about them getting strange readings from the crew monitoring system (everyone being dead) and asking for an explanation. If nobody answers or they come up with a shitty excuse then send the ERT. At least that way it makes sense, and gives the traitors a chance to prevent it/a bit of time to prepare.

TheNightingale wrote:you have to expect resistance.

Not from admins interfering with the round tbh. Someone should have tried to get to a console to call an ERT but Centcom just sending it out of nowhere is more a problem of the crew not being robust enough to handle a murderboner than it is the murderboner not being able to handle the ERT.

iamgoofball wrote:* Kill anyone who gets on the shuttle
50+ people, no matter how much gear you got you can't take on that many people without being swarmed over

This was on Basil. There were about twenty people online, of which it's a safe estimate to say that about a third were braindead, ghosts or sucicides, leaving... 13. Two traitors and a borg, so 10. Can two traitors and a borg take down ten people? Easily... especially given that they won't all be rushing towards the shuttle. Also, nice triple post.

iamgoofball wrote:

TheNightingale wrote:The ERT wasn't armed with pulse weaponry

they spawn with pulse weaponry you idiot

Code Red ERTs spawn with pulse weaponry (e.g. /datum/outfit/ert/commander/alert - there's also /datum/outfit/ert/security/alert, /medical/alert, /engineer/alert) - usually a pulse pistol, except the Security ERT, who has a carbine.

Code Amber ERTs (e.g. datum/outfit/ert/commander, without the /alert) spawn with energy guns, except the Security ERT member, who has an energy gun and a taser, and the ERT Commander, who has an energy gun and either a deagle or a mateba. There's also an ion rifle in the ERT area. This ERT was a Code Amber ERT.

TL;DR check yourself before you shrek yourself, this was on Basil with a Code Amber ERT.

A year ago I ranted against the admins for dumping an ERT on me and a traitor pal after had killed like 5 people.

I feel the same way now. If traitors are working together, especially if they need to escape alone, tossing an ERT at them is silly.

I made the team before the shuttle was called, although the timing was very fine on that so it's understandable confusion. If it had been called before that, I probably wouldn't have sent them.

Also, don't pretend Amber ERTs are faceroll death marine commandos.

If you're looking for consistency, you won't and can't get it. We have a diversity of perspectives and opinions on everything, and the admin team is no exception.

I'm not going to stop ERTing lowpop murderboners on Sibyl or Bagil, as a general policy, unless told otherwise by headmins. They're aware of this and will probably come by soon to resolve it.

Consider that there are other people trying to enjoy their day and game too. Admins can and should strive to make sure the game is enjoyable for everyone. Murdering all the other players isn't always fun for them, and traitor objectives are just suggestions. Go for the enjoyment of yourself and others instead of a select few.

All in all, admins generally act in the best interests of the community through various ways.

so i get to be punished if I try to do my objectives, and get bitched at by everyone if I try to just have fun my way as a traitor by killing things

make up your fucking minds

if I have fun killing people as traitor, you can't tell me I'm not allowed to have fun as traitor otherwise I might as well PR removing all weapons from traitor

Murderboning is fine if it's done in an interesting way. I remember a while back an atmos tech got an assassination objective as well as the goal of dying a glorious death. So what does he do? He grabs an atmos hardsuit and sets the entire station on fire killing almost everyone, gets the shuttle called, sets the escape shuttle on fire and while on the shuttle takes off his suit burning to death in the very inferno he created. Shit like that is hilarious and is better off without the admins interfering. Guy gets some simple objective like steal some plasma and escape alive on low pop and instead decides to just spawn a double esword and try to kill as many people as possible? Fuck yeah, spawn an ERT on his sorry ass. Make him actually work for that high score.

The point I'm getting at here is that if someone's objective directly requires them to kill as many crew members as they can (such as needing to hijack the shuttle) or they find themselves in a spot where they absolutely need to shoot their way out (they got caught in the act of a crime and they've got people gunning for them), don't interfere. On the other hand if someone just decides "hey, there's only 20 people online and no security! Time to kill everyone!" call in the heavies. If they bitch about it too bad. They should probably git gud if they can't even murderbone if they're facing a bit of resistance.

I'm surprised nobody has tried to change hijack into an actual hijack that sends the shuttle to a syndicate base where some agents/syndie borgs are waiting to purge NT loyal crew. Would make EoR hilarous if it could be done stealth like.

Best salty thread on the forum right now, I rate 10/10

Honestly the fact that you can have someone playing in an objectively shitty way (slowly and methodically murdering everyone while not calling the shuttle until you've gone and finished everyone off, during lowpop when no one can defend themselves no less), but only tie admins' hands behind their backs from bringing people back into the round and making things more interesting when the person has a specific objective in a game where objectives are ignored 99% of the time is pretty dumb. I don't know where the way to go with this is, but this absolute taboo that people have with admins trying to add more conflict/move a dead round along ONLY when the traitor has one specific objective is silly. Thoughts?

players don't have a right to complete their objectives.

it's always been this way, just lock this thread already, admins already have the perfect amount of flexibility to fuck up lame murderboners like OP.

Okand and oranges are correct, lowpop murderboners are shit and thier tears sustain me

I don't disagree that admins that admins should be able to move the game along if the station is trapped in lowpop murder recall hell or something*

I do think it could have been handled a bit more diplomatically instead of laughing at the people for being salty/tears and telling them they have a shit playstyle after the game directly told them to do that though. I really don't understand the hostility.


*That said there are usually better ways to do it like just forcecalling the shuttle, or asking them to hurry it up. I've definitely been dissapointed before by the arrival of ERT while I'm struggling to survive a round. I'm not saying I've never sent an ERT, but the very concept of an all access squad of admin space marines coming to fix things seems to go against the core of ss13.

Kor wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/19594

Removes hijack alone entirely.

Kinda seems like overkill, don't you think? A bit like using a sledgehammer to drive a screw.
Could you consider an alternative such as locking escape alone to higher populations? 30+ or 40+ or something?
this isn't basil where the population averages makes it a (relative to main) crapshoot to take on the station in it's entirety, so maybe at those proposed population caps it might make this more bearable for the whiners.

Or better yet, leave it alone, and make admins stop punishing murderboner traitors for enacting their RNG God given right to slaughter the crew for delicious tears. It's not tasteful to say, but sometimes just going on a rampage is fun. that's why wizard round works, that's why rev round works, and it's why basic traitor works, there is nothing more boring than a group of traitors who never make a move and the station just kills time until some admin presses a dozen buttons.

I get that murderboner traitors kill fun for their victims, and I've been a victim of it myself, but I'm willing to live with random assasination at the height of my sandbox fun, if it means I get to do it to some other poor schmuck when my turn comes around. Let he who has never been a sadistic fun killing asshole for the hell of it cast the first stone.

Kor wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/19594

I kind of like David's idea a bit better. Maybe some kind of transmitter the traitor has to plant on a shuttle console or hide on the shuttle itself to alter the shuttle's trajectory or some shit.

One time, I was teamed with a traitor who kept recalling to get his objective. We had killed most of the crew and had intentions to hijack. No objective for it. Noone sent an ERT on us even though our behavior was terrible. Yet, an ERT is called on traitors that have called the shuttle and had a hijack objective. HBL is a great admin, but its not really fair to the traitors who had a well thought out plan and sending a squad of salty validhunters that probably used knowledge they gained from deadchat and previous lives to kill them. Also, removing hijack? Whats next, are we gonna remove assassinate objectives so noone's round is ruined?

Just an addendum to my prior comment regarding "Amber ERT's aren't deathroll commandos".

My biggest problem with the ERT is the Commander's Thermals.

Those thermals upgrade the team from "above average security" to "validhunters supreme". Nothing is more frustrating than lurking around in your super stealthy hiding spot as a traitor just to have the ERT burst in because they can see you from 2 rooms away.

Kor wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/19594

Remove this for Basil only.

Kor wrote:I do think it could have been handled a bit more diplomatically instead of laughing at the people for being salty/tears and telling them they have a shit playstyle after the game directly told them to do that though. I really don't understand the hostility.

Go look at how they were acting, I don't make this sort of attitude a habit.

I mean, I'm in agreeance that sending ert when they had hijack kinda pushes this into "maybe we shouldn't" territory.

Some people don't get antag often, and its even rarer to get hijack, and getting cucked out of that chance feels bad.

At some point the game has to be a game, meaning it has to have assumable elements, the ability to prepare for contingencies, and known boundaries. These things are what makes a game a game, if it's too easy for somebody to just decide to throw all of that out the window to cuck you (regardless if that's their intention or not) then it stops being fun.

Holy shit you people are terrible. Murderboning is a player problem. Its not the objective.

Spawning ERT on Traitors that are just doing their objective is fucking stupid. Just because you and deadchat do not agree with their methods does not give you the right to abuse your admin powers to stop them for some petty revenge/justice.

This isn't an objective problem, but an administration and policy issue. Either we ban murderboning or tell dead chat to go salt itself. Removing the hijack objective just half-asses it.

Personally? Welcome to Space Station 13, where people get traitor and go on random killing sprees. We shouldn't be sending ERTs randomly to ruin a traitor's round because we don't like how they decided to act as a traitor to complete their randomly given objective.

Yeah, in this case the team was not warranted. I agree the objective thing pushes it over, and them calling the shuttle shortly afterwards established that they ween't going to hold the round hostage or anything.

The complaint at hand has been resolved, closing this