[OptimumTact] - TinoDrima7020/Vespa - Orange Man Badmin

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tinodrima7020
 
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[OptimumTact] - TinoDrima7020/Vespa - Orange Man Badmin

Unread postby tinodrima7020 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:13 pm #472438

Byond account and character name: TinoDrima7020/Vespa
Admin: OptimumTact
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: 2019-01-26 00:03:20 | Bagil
ROUND ID HERE: Forgot
Detailed summary:

Oranges wants me to put my ban appeal inside admin complaint so okay I guess.
Original Thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21365

Original Post
Spoiler:
Byond account and character name: Vespa/TinoDrima7020
Noting Admin: OptimumTact
Note: "Stole the roboticists job equipment from their area as a borg and missed (possibly didn't see due to text spam) the roboticst telling them to stop. When questioned, responded that they blieved the roboticist to be incompetent and wanted others to do the work. Requested that they avoid taking job material from departments in the future as a borg."
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil
Side of the story: I was noted for coming close to breaking rule 1, being a dick, apparently because I had decided to grab a brain that I had removed, the mmi, and the shell, all next to each other waiting to be borged, and put it in a locker in order for it to be borged. My reason being is that the roboticist was inattentive or a brainlet and that having more Asimov borgs is a benefit to the crew, not to mention the player in question was waiting about 10~ mins to be borged (waiting out robo + surgery + sitting on the ground as a brain with finished parts right next to it). Instead of borging the brain, the roboticist decided to hit a reinforced window with a crowbar for a while which would've taken 10 seconds at most in four clicks)

Vespa queries, "So are you going to put the brain in the borg or?"
*Roboticist continues hitting the window*
Vespa states, "Yikes"

*I proceed to grab a locker and drag the brain and finished shell into a locker*

During this time the roboticist apparently told me to "Wait" and said "Let me", but my attention was directed at my 2D sprites and I wasn't really paying attention to anything else since the cap was HIGH POWER asking for his wheelchair, and the A.I. was also high power, as well as someone writing a paragraph in OOC so I missed it.

[HIGH POWER] [Common] says, "MIME"

[HIGH POWER][Common] says, "GIVE ME BACK MY WHEELCHAIR"

[HIGH POWER] [Common] states, "Why do you have a crate full of syndicate supplies"

(Roboticist) Alexios Komnenos says, "Wait"

Trigger points at Vespa.

Alexios Komnenos says, "Let me"

(Paragraph of OOC) OOC: OrdoM: Bullying is an important part of life and the game, insofar that at non-fatal levels it teaches mental resilience and the fact that not all people are nice. Think of it like building callouses for your spaceman hands. With which you may then choke the clown.

[HIGH POWER] [Common] states, "Why can i suddenly see into maint"

*At this point I'm already at the medbay lobby and see Hanna and point at her to get her attention then a borg tells me that the roboticist said wait, but at this point Hanna is already in possession of the locker, brain, mmi, and shell*
[Common] asks, "Why do you not AI?"
Robotic Talk, TriGGer states, "he said wait"
[Common] Alexios Komnenos says, "Borg wtf"
[Common] , "How odd AI"
Robotic Talk, TriGGer states, "youre breaking law 2"
Hanna Tireman says, "Oh no"
Hanna Tireman sticks brain into the Man-Machine Interface.

The note's contents or existence is unjustifiably harsh to the player's standing in the eyes of admins reading the notes.
Notes that contain admin opinions that unfairly paint the player in a bad light are one example.
Emphasis on the phrase "unfairly". If you're repeatedly a shitter and an admin calls you a shitter in a note just take the hint and improve on not being a shitter

Admin PM from-Optimumtact: You didn't break any rules, which is why you're not banned, you did however come close to rule 1, being a dick and you also didn't roleplay your borg/silicon laws to my satisfaction.


So basically I was noted because I missed two lines of text from high powered comms, a paragraph of OOC and "not rping to their satisfaction"(????). Furthermore, rule 1 was cited, being a dick, when I was actively trying to bring a player back into the round as soon as possible rather than have their brain sit on the floor while the chimp roboticist ooga booga'd a reinforced window with a crowbar.


Follow-up after being told by Oranges within the original ahelps that if I take issue with the way someone is doing their job to ahelp it.

Spoiler:
During these ahelps I was told to ahelp people if they are not doing their jobs so I decided to see how much this held up.

Spoiler:
PM to-Admins: Roboticists are ignoring me when I am asking to be reset and asking them to print lavaproof tracks so that I may retrieve the A.I. and corpses from lavaland. When one of them finally answered they said "I want to do my own shit" and the other roboticist is continually ignoring me in order to make their durand.

-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-DaxYeen: yes and?

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-DaxYeen: How is this an admin issue?

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: Rule 1. Seems pretty dickish to ignore basic duties as a role you sign up for in order to do whatever you want

- AdminHelp marked as IC issue! -
Losing is part of the game!
Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

Your ticket has been resolved by an admin. The Adminhelp verb will be returned to you shortly


PM to-Admins: Is it ahelpable if someone refuses to do their basic functions and instead chooses to "do their own shit" and continually ignore you?
-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Coiax: It depends on who's "ignoring their functions". Is it a borg disobeying laws?

Click on the administrator's name to reply.
PM to-Admins: No it's a roboticist
- AdminHelp marked as IC issue! -
Losing is part of the game!
Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

Your ticket has been resolved by an admin. The Adminhelp verb will be returned to you shortly.
PM to-Admins: So explain to me why I was told to ahelp people that don't do their job functions if admins are going to mark it as an ic issue?

- AdminHelp marked as IC issue! -
Losing is part of the game!
Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

Your ticket has been resolved by an admin. The Adminhelp verb will be returned to you shortly.
???????????????????????????????????
-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-DaxYeen: It's not against the rules to not do your job.

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-DaxYeen: We're not gonna keep telling you

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

Why am I being told to do something when it doesn't amount to shit because there is zero consistency between admins. Would me printing a reset board and lavaproof tracks and then bringing it to someone else be considered "stealing materials" from robotics and open me up to being noted/banned for that too?


Complaint: Poorly handled my appeal and dismissed almost all of what was said. I don't mind if someone wants to play admin despite rarely being on, but at least make it seem like you care about the role. You took everything as a plain fact without looking at the context and decided to note me and even tried to cite Rule 1 on me for being a dick when I was actively trying to bring a player into the round that was effectively taken out of it for 10~ minutes.

Spoiler:
Admin PM from-Optimumtact: In the future, please don't steal equipment from a crewmembers job area as a borg, if you think the robotocists isn't doing their job, ahelp it.

If you were a crew member, I would be more amenable to you doing it, but not as a borg.


You then proceed to lock my thread and state "none of this is relevant to this appeal" when much of it is very relevant. I proceeded to ahelp as per your suggestion and got met with multiple IC ISSUES and you've yet to tell me how I've earned my note other than "coming close to rule 1, being a dick" by ACTIVELY TRYING TO BRING A PLAYER INTO THE ROUND and I "didn't roleplay my borg/silicon laws to your satisfaction", whatever that means.



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oranges
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Re: [OptimumTact] - TinoDrima7020/Vespa - Orange Man Badmin

Unread postby oranges » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:19 pm #472441

I denied the original ban appeal, what happens when other admins discuss job related issues is hardly something I can control. I advised you that if someone was being bad at their job you should ahelp it, I can't control what other admins choose to do in response to that.
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PostThis post was deleted by TehSteveo on Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:21 pm.
Reason: Peanut Post. https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44

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Dax Dupont
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Re: [OptimumTact] - TinoDrima7020/Vespa - Orange Man Badmin

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:25 am #472631

Since my ahelps were used:

There's a clear difference between not borging someone for half a round and the robos not wanted to upgrade you. It's the difference between being negligent and criminally negligent. You don't ahelp an engineer for not setting up the engine but you ahelp them for intentionally blowing up the engine.

Next thing we know you're gonna ahelp a curator for not stocking the library with the smut you requested, the clown not being funny, the chaplain not burrying people or the chemists not making a deathmix for you.

Besides you should always follow law 2 orders.

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tinodrima7020
 
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Re: [OptimumTact] - TinoDrima7020/Vespa - Orange Man Badmin

Unread postby tinodrima7020 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:31 pm #472681

I'd much prefer a headmin to look at the appeal as well as the complaint. Thanks fellas.

Edit: I was not explicitly given a law 2 order. There was another cyborg in robotics as well as a roboticist when he said: "wait". Could've been directed at anyone in the room if you want to bring up following a Law 2.
Last edited by tinodrima7020 on Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dax Dupont
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Re: [OptimumTact] - TinoDrima7020/Vespa - Orange Man Badmin

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:04 pm #472686

tinodrima7020 wrote:I'd much prefer a headmin to look at the appeal as well as the complaint. Thanks fellas.

Admins/players involved are free to participate in the thread.

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Re: [OptimumTact] - TinoDrima7020/Vespa - Orange Man Badmin

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:18 pm #473833

So if I'm understanding your issue the tldr; is that you got noted for toeing the line of rule 1 because you decided to take over robotics and do their job, despite them telling you not to which you missed?

How is that remotely coming close to rule 1 here? Our escalation policy allows you to flat out attack and 'escalate' to murder someone over any stupid reason as long as you get them cloned. But moonlighting at someone else's job, doing it correctly, and non-violently, is almost being a dick? The robo was well within his rights to kick the shit out of you and expel you, but you weren't even close to breaking a rule. If moonlighting against someone's wishes is actually close to rule breaking then every player here should be noted for it now.

Oranges can, and did lock it, but a headmin should probably unlock it and weigh in.

Why does Oranges even have admin rights as head coder? Is he actually an admin who is expected to be on and administrate or does he just have those powers from the head coder role?

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Dax Dupont
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Re: [OptimumTact] - TinoDrima7020/Vespa - Orange Man Badmin

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:03 pm #473847

WarbossLincoln wrote:So if I'm understanding your issue the tldr; is that you got noted for toeing the line of rule 1 because you decided to take over robotics and do their job, despite them telling you not to which you missed?

How is that remotely coming close to rule 1 here? Our escalation policy allows you to flat out attack and 'escalate' to murder someone over any stupid reason as long as you get them cloned. But moonlighting at someone else's job, doing it correctly, and non-violently, is almost being a dick? The robo was well within his rights to kick the shit out of you and expel you, but you weren't even close to breaking a rule. If moonlighting against someone's wishes is actually close to rule breaking then every player here should be noted for it now.

Oranges can, and did lock it, but a headmin should probably unlock it and weigh in.

Why does Oranges even have admin rights as head coder? Is he actually an admin who is expected to be on and administrate or does he just have those powers from the head coder role?


Headmins don't need to weigh into ban appeals unless they want to.

Also yes oranges is an admin, which is separate from any and all coding responsibilities he has. Non-admins with the coder rank are forbidden to handle ahelps(other than maybe technical/bug ones).

Oranges has admined plenty, which is represented by the amount of notes and bans he's dished out.

PostThis post was deleted by Nervere on Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:32 pm.
Reason: doesnt follow guidelines under peanut posting rule

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Re: [OptimumTact] - TinoDrima7020/Vespa - Orange Man Badmin

Unread postby oranges » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:51 pm #473981

you're not here to do anything since you're permabanned, but the tone is more authoritative than I intended, I was trying to indicate they wouldn't be collecting a note if they had just stuck to being a borg, and not stealing the roboticists equipment so they could get their friend finally borged too.

Everything about your and tino's complaints here is just personal attacks with no basis in fact, such as tino pretending I'm rarely on and you attacking me for having ego, nobody got banned, I didn't ban anyone for not roleplaying to my statifaction. The only thing that happened was that Tinodrima got a note for taking the roboticists stuff and not listening when told to stop it. IT wasn't a ban because they did indeed have the potential to miss what the roboticist said. Tino then brings up a bunch of unrelated ahelps like they will affect the note that I have placed, and when I lock the appeal after denying it, makes a complaint because they're a whiny baby.

Nothing about the note is inaccurate. It conveys what happened, it conveys why I didn't ban them and I see no reason to adjust it.

I wish the headadmins would hurry up and review this thread so the peanut posting can cease.
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Re: [OptimumTact] - TinoDrima7020/Vespa - Orange Man Badmin

Unread postby tinodrima7020 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:27 pm #474016

I made the complaint because you told me to, sweetcheeks. At any rate you're making a great precedent for future behavior. People can neglect their core duties and do whatever they feel without zero repercussions, meanwhile anyone that wants to take over their duties in order to assist someone that requires the aid of that role opens themselves to being noted and/or banned. Quality stuff, Oranges.
Edit:
Facts
-I saw player sitting out of a round for 10+ minutes
-I help player get back into the round
-I get noted for it for no real reason other than "lol ur a borg stop helping players and roleplay as the automaton you are"
The note and your ruling are shit and you know it because I know almost certainly that the only reason you noted me for this was solely based on the fact that I was a borg. If I had been a human and done the same thing with the same intent, to help a player get into the round, I doubt I would've gotten a note which is why I appealed the note under the basis of the 2nd reasoning. It's an unfair note and misrepresents my intent and actions. I didn't steal materials because obviously the roboticist had no clear intent on using it and demonstrated it when they chose to bash a window with a crowbar/wrench for however long rather than take four seconds out of their caveman ritual to create a borg. I brought a shell that was finished, an mmi and a brain which I had performed surgery on, and took it with me in the hopes of getting a player into the round rather than have them sit for however many more minutes.

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Re: [OptimumTact] - TinoDrima7020/Vespa - Orange Man Badmin

Unread postby oranges » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:47 pm #474021

No people can't neglect their core duties, and I never made any kind of ruling on that, I told you to ahelp if people do it. So that's just nonsense. The only precedent being set is you can't ignore lawful orders, which of course isn't being set because it already exists.

Yes i noted you because you were a borg and you failed to notice a lawful order. Humans don't have laws so of course I wouldn't note you if you weren't a borg, non argument, doesn't even make sense at this point.

You did steal materials from the roboticist and they even told you to stop. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you missed it due to chat spam and being preoccupied and you still want to chuck it back into my face even though I thought I was pretty fair.

You've brought up so many unrelated facts to this case that it just seems like you are throwing every straw in the book at the haybale and hoping it sticks.

You were noted for ignoring a lawful order to stop taking material from the roboticists department.

That you were doing it to get someone borged and that you missed it in the chat spam were taken into account as well as the fact that it was a obviously grey area command, and you could have assumed it was another borg, or someone else, which is why you did not get a borg ban for failing to follow the laws and the note was simply informational for other admins, including the fact you were asked not to take job equipment in the future.
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Re: [OptimumTact] - TinoDrima7020/Vespa - Orange Man Badmin

Unread postby Nervere » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:52 am #474057

Oranges was dutiful in his investigation and did explain his reasoning for the note in the appeal thread.
There was nothing mishandled with the appeal. Oranges also only locked the appeal thread after both sides had said what they needed on the matter, at that point there was little room remaining for debate aside from a headmin giving a ruling. In that regard, there is nothing complaint-worthy in oranges conduct, so this complaint is not being upheld.
That being said, we looked over the appeal and decided to overturn the note itself.


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