[MortoSasye] questionable behavior and repeated stupidity in applying rule interpretation

[LacertaPes]

Post Content:
When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): forums and discord: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24453
Admin: MortoSasye
Detailed summary: Admin making a decision against a player based on conjecture from an ex administrator who’s a known discord shitter.

You were banned because I advised Morto in DM's that you were likely a Karma alt, as he was claiming to be a new account in the HippieStation Discord server around this time.
Given that Karma regularly uses a different account now, it's highly unlikely that I was correct that you're an alt account, so you have my apologies for that.
I recommend this ban be lifted, not an admin anymore so I can't actually do anything about it.
If Morto would like to verify that Rany_Rain is not Karma, I advise referencing the two users' IP addresses. It is doubtful that they will line up.

First. This is speculation. First why say anything if they’re just assuming? Second why act on it? You know nervere has a history of stirring up issues on the discord.

Spoiler:

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 06#p519306 https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... ead#unread just a couple of recent but applicable instances

In the current thread the user is banned and now must go through the headache of proving that they’re not the said user. I’m curious as they why you’d take the word of an individual who not only has a proven track record of harassment of other discord users but more specifically was recently embroiled in a discord ban themselves that you yourself handled.

You seemed in my opinion to react in haste in that ban and you’ve reacted in haste in applying this ban as well. Using little to no proper evidence. Should not the burden of proof be on YOU as the banning admin to ban the user? Instead in their appeal you’re placing the burden of proof on the user and in this case your only proof is that of a user who appears to have a sordid history of harassment.

Is nervere still an admin? Is there something I’m missing? If I myself joined the discord and messaged you expressing that a user was ban evading on the basis of something they said in another discord server that you had absolutely no knowledge about would you ban that user? I feel as though my direct message to you would go largely ignored and you’d not respond to it.

I do think it’s understandable that nervere be given more weight than your typical user. I see why you’d take what they say with more substance. However I feel that there’s also the expectation that they’re no longer an administrator and the information given should be seen like any other user giving information.

I’m not saying nervere was acting maliciously and certainly there are times when an ex admin chiming in has its benefits if you do the diligence of investigating it yourself and acting upon information received as a result of the investigation itself. Then you can show the burden of proof and the user can attempt to refute it. I believe the precedent you’re setting is a dangerous one. It opens up the ability for an ex administrator to potentially get someone they don’t like banned by raising speculation that a user is actually someone else.

Whether that’s the outcome here or not. Whether it’s a mistake or not, the fact this person is willing to DOX themselves to lift a ban in a community that they want to participate with for a ban placed that really can’t be proven otherwise without doxxing themselves says a lot about the decision you made as an administrator in my opinion. This is becoming a pattern with you.

[Nervere]

Do you have any fucking clue what you're talking about?
I banned - quite literally - over 100 alts of Karma and the people he would join the server with to raid the server.
He is the very reason I set up the verification channel. He's the very reason why our Discord ban list is over 5x the size it used to be.
Do you know why his current account is called "DON KARMA 10?" It's because we banned his other 9 accounts, + countless other random accounts he made to spam the server.
These accounts ranged from him simply joining to spam the server, with names like, "Fortnite", or trying to join the server as impersonations of other players already inside.

Morto did nothing wrong by listening to my advice. I had just come off 12 months headminship, and certainly still knew a lot about this dude and what he was up to.
The banned account - Rany_Rain - was a mistake. Mistakes happen when someone evades on inumerable alternate accounts! Unfortunate, but the most we can do is rectify the mistakes.

Something else you fail to understand is the threat that Karma and people associated with him posed to the server.
The summer ball was DDoS'd by them. The BYOND hub was DDoS'd by them. They attempted to dox a community member. They hacked an admin's BYOND account.
You're going to complain about a genuine mistake by Morto, an experienced and respected admin, for a single false positive? Fuck off.

Of course, you lack all of this context because you just registered your forum account today, just registered your BYOND account today.
I have no doubt you're some shit-stirring retard from another community who wants to inflict stress and cause drama over something you know nothing about.
Get the fuck off this website, you ignorant twat.

[CitrusGender]

This is a ridiculous complaint. Nervere has banned a ton of alts and helped out with shit like this before. Whether or not he was an admin at the time is irrelevant to the information being presented. There's nothing in the rules at all that says that admins cannot rely upon the information of non-admins, if anything there have been many cases of quite the opposite throughout history. Morto has not broken any rule and neither can I think of any norm that's been broken.

I feel like this could be pre-emptively closed frankly due to the ridiculousness of this thread.

Edit: As discussed with Hulk, this does not constitute an "instance of abuse" as per:

THIS BOARD IS FOR SPECIFIC INSTANCES OF MODERATION OR ADMINISTRATIVE POWER ABUSE.

So therefor is not applicable. I think there's more reasons to close this thread, so I'll take that and move this.