/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

MrStonedOne wrote:I have left this unlocked because goofball is going to come in here and make an ass out of himself.

yes, yes I am

[11:53:41]EMOTE: @Stickymayhem[DC]/(Jack Steiner) : <b>Jack Steiner</b> gasps! (76,100,2)
[11:53:41]EMOTE: @Stickymayhem[DC]/(Jack Steiner) : <b>Jack Steiner</b> seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (76,100,2)

this is where he died, if Parsed Logs were working I could stitch this together with the damage logs for us to get an accurate read on what killed him
but about 20 minutes before that:

[11:39:46]ADMIN: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) checked antagonists.
[11:39:49]SAY: Renmar the Fickle (as Trevor Haynes)/Kel the Oblivious : I will kill anyone I see. I suggest you flee. My work here is done, all that remains is for you to know flight is better than fight. (80,170,2)
[11:39:49]SAY: Ne'er-do-well/Heboric : yiss (69,152,2)
[11:39:50]EMOTE: *no key*/(Poly) : <b>Poly</b> bawks! (156,141,2)
[11:39:52]EMOTE: *no key*/(mouse) : <b>The mouse</b> shakes. (142,147,2)
[11:39:55]ACCESS: Mob Login: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
[11:39:55]EMOTE: *no key*/(monkey (944)) : <b>The monkey (944)</b> rolls. (67,85,2)
[11:39:57]ADMIN: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) admin ghosted.
[11:39:57]ACCESS: Mob Login: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
[11:40:01]SAY: Hugs-Everyone/Samul : s~ (68,151,2)
[11:40:02]EMOTE: *no key*/(Pugley IV) : <b>Pugley IV</b> shakes its head. (134,104,2)
[11:40:03]EMOTE: *no key*/(grey baby slime (811)) : <b>The grey baby slime (811)</b> lights up for a bit, then stops. (127,56,2)
[11:40:04]ADMIN: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) has sent Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) back to the Lobby.

>checked antags while alive, ragequit over it being wizard and sent yourself back to the lobby for some unknown reason

[11:56:06]ADMIN: Stickymayhem/(Patrick Tireman) has created a command report: Feel free to contact us. We can overload the gravity generator and pull in every asteroid within 3 parsecs.

we need asay logs and PM logs to confirm the check antags purpose

this is Fishy As Hell and without all the asay logs or PM logs, seems like he metagamed the roundtype with his admin tools to ragequit over wizard, then spam meteors when the wizard played the game in a way he didn't like

Here's what those logs actually mean
>Wizard is openly and loudly killing everyone
>"I wonder who the wizard is"
>"Check antags for wizard ckey
>"Oh it's Kel he's robust this should be a fun to watch"
>Possibly clicked (FLW) from check antag panel
>"Oh wait I wanted to make that new clown"
>Send back to Lobby to access character creator
>Observe back in to watch the round for another 16 minutes (As Patrick Tireman, the randomized backup name from my new clown character "Garbo the Trash Clown" )
>Eh wizard is robust, most people are dead, I'll send a report offering meteors
>Didn't realize everyone is so dead no one can contact
>Send another report something like "last chance, we're not hearing any no's"
>Hit meteors twice
>Round ends soon after

So obviously if a wizard exploded me and no admins but me are online, I know what the round type is. I'm not stupid.

When you're on the server alone you poke around. I jump around observing a lot. It's not shady. I could take almost any set of admin logs and make a case that they're shady.

>checked antags while alive, ragequit over it being wizard and sent yourself back to the lobby for some unknown reason

Literally the whole station knew who the antag was before I checked antag.

>Ragequit

lolwut

If oranges did that exact maneuver he'd be deadminned by the hour

You're abusing your buddy buddy rep. Knock it off.

Additionally past precedent was set with the Judicator case files and the HBL trial set that spamming events at random regardless of open complaints being present is deadminnable.

You could of been deaf + blind and not able to know its wizard. "Everyone" didn't know.

It's really weird to have everyone declare that you were angry and worked up when I was having a completely chill time pottering about observing and shit. As assistant I have no investment in the round, it's why I play assistant when I'm adminning. I was the only admin, else I would have picked a better role and deadminned. The only time I get close to annoyed is if I die stupidly as an antag, and even then I wouldn't do anything dumb associated with it.

This is becoming a silly witchhunt frankly

Screaming witchhunt when you're called on bad behavior is a textbook Republican diversion tactic, don't even try it.

there's really nothing in this

To be fair here i don't really think sticky is immature enough to spam meteors over a minor IC provocation or boredom, but it's a matter of record that we have trialmins (who will probably end up promoted) who are immature enough to spam meteors over minor OOC provocation or to spam pull requests with movie spoilers due to boredom.

oranges wrote:there's really nothing in this

there are multiple people in this thread who have said otherwise

EagleWiz wrote:To be fair here i don't really think sticky is immature enough to spam meteors over a minor IC provocation or boredom, but it's a matter of record that we have trialmins (who will probably end up promoted) who are immature enough to spam meteors over minor OOC provocation or to spam pull requests with movie spoilers due to boredom.

holy FUCK

iamgoofball wrote:

MrStonedOne wrote:I have left this unlocked because goofball is going to come in here and make an ass out of himself.

yes, yes I am

[11:53:41]EMOTE: @Stickymayhem[DC]/(Jack Steiner) : <b>Jack Steiner</b> gasps! (76,100,2)
[11:53:41]EMOTE: @Stickymayhem[DC]/(Jack Steiner) : <b>Jack Steiner</b> seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (76,100,2)

this is where he died, if Parsed Logs were working I could stitch this together with the damage logs for us to get an accurate read on what killed him
but about 20 minutes before that:

[11:39:46]ADMIN: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) checked antagonists.
[11:39:49]SAY: Renmar the Fickle (as Trevor Haynes)/Kel the Oblivious : I will kill anyone I see. I suggest you flee. My work here is done, all that remains is for you to know flight is better than fight. (80,170,2)
[11:39:49]SAY: Ne'er-do-well/Heboric : yiss (69,152,2)
[11:39:50]EMOTE: *no key*/(Poly) : <b>Poly</b> bawks! (156,141,2)
[11:39:52]EMOTE: *no key*/(mouse) : <b>The mouse</b> shakes. (142,147,2)
[11:39:55]ACCESS: Mob Login: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
[11:39:55]EMOTE: *no key*/(monkey (944)) : <b>The monkey (944)</b> rolls. (67,85,2)
[11:39:57]ADMIN: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) admin ghosted.
[11:39:57]ACCESS: Mob Login: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
[11:40:01]SAY: Hugs-Everyone/Samul : s~ (68,151,2)
[11:40:02]EMOTE: *no key*/(Pugley IV) : <b>Pugley IV</b> shakes its head. (134,104,2)
[11:40:03]EMOTE: *no key*/(grey baby slime (811)) : <b>The grey baby slime (811)</b> lights up for a bit, then stops. (127,56,2)
[11:40:04]ADMIN: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) has sent Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) back to the Lobby.

FNR Rules wrote: You must link to the log file you got the logs from to make it easier to validate the context

Please link to the source you got the logs from, this could be the original parsed-logs folder or atl's log viewer.

*deleted*

I have no real opinion on this either way but just dropping in to remind everyone that you do not need to be in the lobby to make characters .

Just press the "game preferences" button in the Preferences tab and it opens the roles/character creator menu. This has been a feature for what, two years?

Cobby wrote:

EagleWiz wrote:To be fair here i don't really think sticky is immature enough to spam meteors over a minor IC provocation or boredom, but it's a matter of record that we have trialmins (who will probably end up promoted) who are immature enough to spam meteors over minor OOC provocation or to spam pull requests with movie spoilers due to boredom.

I hope you're an antag because that's some severe murderbone of the OOC variant.



Also I am pretty sure I've mentioned this to sticky in a separate issue which I forgot the context of so take that with a grain of salt, but for future reference please do not touch the round in a station-ending way immediately after you die regardless of your intentions*. If you wanted to force a shuttle call there are plenty of ways to do that in a manner that also doesn't put the wizard at risk (immediately after you die).

* assuming it's an otherwise "normal" round.

He's said multiple times in the thread it wasn't immediately, it was 15-20 minutes after

Nilons wrote:
He's said multiple times in the thread it wasn't immediately, it was 15-20 minutes after

Sorry I fell into peanut posting because I didn't want to read peanut posting.

I'll delete

Respect cobby authoritay

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:I have no real opinion on this either way but just dropping in to remind everyone that you do not need to be in the lobby to make characters .

Just press the "game preferences" button in the Preferences tab and it opens the roles/character creator menu. This has been a feature for what, two years?

Around the time I took my break. Had no idea thanks I'm a dummy

Edit: as a confused Brit this thread has helped me understand more about American politics more than anything this last year because my god

iamgoofball wrote:If oranges did that exact maneuver he'd be deadminned by the hour

You're abusing your buddy buddy rep. Knock it off.

I've already done much worse in a wizard round, the only difference is I didn't play as an assistant in the round.

Here it is
https://atlantaned.space/statbus/round.php?round=82435

spawned multiple more wizards after the first one murderboned then died then spawned multiple deathsquads.

Since there's no complaint about my conduct, I have to assume the only reason sticky got caught up in this mess is because certain players were around for his event that were not around for mine.

I'd suggest that they're the problem here, not him.

oranges wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:If oranges did that exact maneuver he'd be deadminned by the hour

You're abusing your buddy buddy rep. Knock it off.

I've already done much worse in a wizard round, the only difference is I didn't play as an assistant in the round.

Here it is
https://atlantaned.space/statbus/round.php?round=82435

spawned multiple more wizards after the first one murderboned then died then spawned multiple deathsquads.

Since there's no complaint about my conduct, I have to assume the only reason sticky got caught up in this mess is because certain players were around for his event that were not around for mine.

I'd suggest that they're the problem here, not him.

The problem here is that there's doubt on whenever Sticky did it because they were personally afflicted by the antagonist in question, and did take part in the round.

For the example you presented, you said it yourself, you didn't play in the round.

how many times do you think sticky has died to a wizard.

How many times do you think he's run events?

now all of a sudden this one specific time he's so angry at the wizard he risks it all just throw some rocks at the station, without even a dedicated chance of killing the guy? The whole premise that's he doing it to target this guy over salt just has such a shaky foundation.

I mean apply some occams razor here, it's most likely sticky was watching the round, saw the usual wiz murderbone pattern play out and decided to toss in some other stuff to spice the mix up a bit, with zero ill-intent behind his actions

D&B wrote: The problem here is that there's doubt on whenever Sticky did it because they were personally afflicted by the antagonist in question, and did take part in the round.

There really isn't any doubt based on any objective analysis of the evidence or subjective knowledge about me

oranges wrote:how many times do you think sticky has died to a wizard.

How many times do you think he's run events?

now all of a sudden this one specific time he's so angry at the wizard he risks it all just throw some rocks at the station, without even a dedicated chance of killing the guy? The whole premise that's he doing it to target this guy over salt just has such a shaky foundation.

I mean apply some occams razor here, it's most likely sticky was watching the round, saw the usual wiz murderbone pattern play out and decided to toss in some other stuff to spice the mix up a bit, with zero ill-intent behind his actions

In my opinion as I see it it's less of a case of Sticky having malicious intent towards the wizard and more of a stupid action and molehill that could have been better prevented.

Then again my opinion is worth jack shit

We once tried to avoid threads like this from occurring with strict policies and systems to try to appease people who want to be angry.

It didn't make them want to be any less angry. It's impossible to prevent one person with a grievance being vocal about it, so why try and why restrict a huge amount of potential good because of the potential inconvenience of a fake drama thread once a month.

D&B wrote:In my opinion as I see it it's less of a case of Sticky having malicious intent towards the wizard and more of a stupid action and molehill that could have been better prevented.

At some point being worried about and preventing the appearances of bad faith gets to be too much.

D&B wrote: Then again my opinion is worth jack shit

It is when you follow it with that statement. Grow up.

I'm going to start off by saying this thread has been an absolute shitshow. Congratulations.

Having adminned with sticky on a few occassions now I do not believe for one second that the reason he called the meteors was in any way malicious or due to any possible "salt" over being fireballed. I just don't think that is anywhere near his mindset or character from what I've seen so far.

Was the meteor calling to end the round as fast as possible right? Was he right to do it after he had been playing in the round? What do the other admins who were on at the time think of the conduct since they were there at the time?
A lot of these are subjective. It's already well known that sticky'd admin style leads slightly more towards events and admin interference with a round. These can make a round for everyone and go very well. Other times they do the opposite.

Do I think Sticky acted maliciously?
Not at all.

In my subjective opinion do I think the "event" or meteor calling was right?
No I do not think it was right, that it was rather poorly planned out and there are far better ways to bring a round to a close or there are ways to but a large amount of dead people back into the round. As I've already stated this is my subjective opinion. He has not broken any policy this is just differences in style.


There's a very long sticky thread at the top of this forum regarding Admin Complaints about Events. It's rather long but it essentially boils down to "you can't raise an Official Admin complaint about an event just because you disliked it". I see the merit in that because with every event you're never going to make everyone happy, someone will have disliked it and so I believe Feedback is much more approriate when it comes to disliking events. We should try to stick to that.


I dislike how this admin complaint went. We get a lot of stupid complaints but it was possible that something was behind this if you didn't know Sticky's style/mindset. There have been a lot of personal attacks from both sides of the argument and it reflects poorly on both sides. If anything some of the conduct in this thread is more worth an admin complaint than the event itself. I do not think Saeg was wrong for voicing what he thought, in his opinion, was a malicious admin act. He believed there was some possible abuses going on so he raised a query about it and I think it's counter-intuitive and wrong to rubbish him for it even if it turns out he was wrong.

I'll finish by stating this is what it says in the What Is Expected Of The Admins post, if you think this is wrong or should be changed then I reccomend you head on over to the policy discussion currently going on regarding this.

If you are playing the game at all, you're expected to only use the admin panels when absolutely necessary. There's no reason to go and check the round type and the antag list the moment the round starts.

Rustledjimm wrote:There's a very long sticky thread at the top of this forum regarding Admin Complaints about Events. It's rather long but it essentially boils down to "you can't raise an Official Admin complaint about an event just because you disliked it".

It's a really long stretch to call hitting the meteor button after you "didn't die but got dismembered and aghosted by the lone antag" an event.
And again all this is why this is an admin complaint and not a policy thread. Fun Things™ can happen but this was, in my opinion, the worst way to handle it as someone participating in the round, directly involved with the antagonist in question, and then smashin dat meteor anyway.

Saegrimr wrote: It's a really long stretch to call hitting the meteor button after you "didn't die but got dismembered and aghosted by the lone antag" an event.
And again all this is why this is an admin complaint and not a policy thread. Fun Things™ can happen but this was, in my opinion, the worst way to handle it as someone participating in the round, directly involved with the antagonist in question, and then smashin dat meteor anyway.

Well I even put earlier in my post the word event in quotation marks. That is my own opinion on the matter, I happen to agree that it is hardly worthy of being called an event and personally I think was poorly thought out. I also state later in my post I do not think you were wrong for raising this as an admin complaint even.

I've already said all this and more in my previous post however and I do not wish to repeat myself too often or add to what already is too long of a thread for this kind of situation.

Rustledjimm wrote:

Saegrimr wrote: It's a really long stretch to call hitting the meteor button after you "didn't die but got dismembered and aghosted by the lone antag" an event.
And again all this is why this is an admin complaint and not a policy thread. Fun Things™ can happen but this was, in my opinion, the worst way to handle it as someone participating in the round, directly involved with the antagonist in question, and then smashin dat meteor anyway.

Well I even put earlier in my post the word event in quotation marks. That is my own opinion on the matter, I happen to agree that it is hardly worthy of being called an event and personally I think was poorly thought out. I also state later in my post I do not think you were wrong for raising this as an admin complaint even.

I've already said all this and more in my previous post however and I do not wish to repeat myself too often or add to what already is too long of a thread for this kind of situation.

If you don't want to have to repeat yourself this is not the thread for you :^)

Quality post as always, sticky.

I try

I like how I bring up the way this admin complaint has been done so far and the two of you continue to act in this way.

Can we have some semblance of behaving like adults here please.

oranges wrote: I've already done much worse in a wizard round, the only difference is I didn't play as an assistant in the round.

It's a pretty important difference though, for the same reason we dont let people answer their own ahelps, or even ahelps in which they were sort of involved.

Even if they do it fairly or reach the proper conclusion it creates such a hazardous grey area that it is best to steer clear instead of undermining the players faith in the game.

He could have just let the shuttle come or let another admin hit some button instead of putting us in a place where we either call him a malicious liar or leave players feeling like their concerns will be swept under the rug.

Quality summation cosmic.

Both parties didn't start off with best intentions.

I am frustrated by this thread, because it is fundamentally suggesting I'm deliberately abusing where I'm not. The fact that pisses me off so much here might show I'm unprofessional (I've never really claimed otherwise), but I hope it also shows how bad my opinion of someone who WOULD do those things is.

I would suggest saying Sticky should exercise deadmining in rounds he plays for a month

The bizarre thing about all of this is that I would genuinely consider this a reward. My timezone is GMT, it's quieter, there are fewer admins, but I enjoy the game and play regularly. Deadminning is a luxury. I, obviously, believe my administrative presence on the server to be a positive one, and so when we're low on admins play low-stake roles and abandon them when tickets or an event, spurred by prayers or trades, comes up.

Kor wrote:

oranges wrote: I've already done much worse in a wizard round, the only difference is I didn't play as an assistant in the round.

It's a pretty important difference though, for the same reason we dont let people answer their own ahelps, or even ahelps in which they were sort of involved.

Even if they do it fairly or reach the proper conclusion it creates such a hazardous grey area that it is best to steer clear instead of undermining the players faith in the game.

He could have just let the shuttle come or let another admin hit some button instead of putting us in a place where we either call him a malicious liar or leave players feeling like their concerns will be swept under the rug.

I think he implied that he was the only admin online but the wording wasn't precise.

leibniz wrote:I think he implied that he was the only admin online but the wording wasn't precise.

There were two other admins on at the time.

you need to optimize your tact when it comes to pressing buttons to end a wiz murderbone round , you can do it as a player but obviously the e-internet brigade likes to jump onto anything like this so cover your own ass i think cobby said it

person who approved goofballs posts needs to rethink their life

not otherwise actionable