[Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

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[Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Slignerd » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:17 am #275310

So, at server time 2017-01-04 23:40:00, Feemjmeem went ahead and deleted and xenomorph-infected mob.

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It feels like too much of an intervention? Xenomorph nest exists to include the possibility of someone getting infected while exploring Lavaland. Obviously, it's not fine to abuse the nest to infect others - but when one gets infected on their own, for an admin to just delete that mob and with it, all consequences of a player getting infected and a potentially engaging event - that doesn't really sit right with me.



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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby J_Madison » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:23 am #275313

I do not appreciate my round being changed because a ghost role/non-antag decided to self-infect to change the round's direction.

Ghost roles do not have rights.
Non-antags do not have rights to self infect to change the round's direction.

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:35 am #275316

I agree. Using non-antag ghost roles to self-infect and produce xenos is lousy and Feem was right to intervene.

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Qbopper » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:36 am #275317

I missed most of the context, but I remember seeing a note feem made about self antagging

I think (and the above posts + quote are reinforcing what I think happened here) is someone spawned in as a ghost role, walked to a nest, and got facehugged on purpose - feem made a note about the player in question and deleted the mob

correct me if I'm wrong but if this is the case then this complaint isn't actionable, he made the right move, self antagging isn't allowed
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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Slignerd » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:46 am #275326

Walking up to a nest is actionable under 'self-antagging'? That seems like a stretch.

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Qbopper » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:00 am #275330

>spawn as a non-antag
>do nothing but intentionally walk up to a nest to get facehugged
>beign facehugged will make you an alien which is an antag

that's self antagging, there's no stretch here, that's the definition

I don't think anyone else on the admin team will say feem overstepped his bounds here
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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Saegrimr » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:18 am #275347

Wew lads its the "My ghost role has rights" meme again.

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby imblyings » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:49 am #275355

Isn't actionable.

Stopping someone from using ghost roles to bring aliens into the round, at the individual discretion of an admin, is acceptable.
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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Steelpoint » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:56 am #275373

Minor point, but I don't think this is a case of self-antagging since a xeno spawn, last I checked, draws from all ghosted players at random.

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby D&B » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:58 am #275374

I might be going off topic here but is there a reason to keep the veterinarian ruin in game?

It adds nothing but bloat the list of free lives you can get from lavaland.

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Haevacht » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:53 am #275378

Steelpoint wrote:Minor point, but I don't think this is a case of self-antagging since a xeno spawn, last I checked, draws from all ghosted players at random.

A xeno infection is rather likely to result in more xeno infections and the dead player getting xeno eventually.

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Lazengann » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:50 pm #275400

D&B wrote:I might be going off topic here but is there a reason to keep the veterinarian ruin in game?

It adds nothing but bloat the list of free lives you can get from lavaland.

Here I got this covered

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Nilons » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:48 pm #275414

I think this all just depends on if they had any reason or not to be near the nest. Very little context given tbh

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Steelpoint » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:55 pm #275417

Good point.

If the xeno hive literally was next to the vet area, then the justification for this slightly leans in favour of the player (though the admins still have full rights to delete these things at their discretion), and this slightly gives some credit that this is a minor coding issue if a xeno hive can appear so close to a ghost spawn area.

However if the xeno hive was in a obscure location, one that likely would have required ghost information to find, then all justification goes out the window along with the kitchen sink.

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Cobby » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:02 pm #275426

Nilons wrote:I think this all just depends on if they had any reason or not to be near the nest. Very little context given tbh


That implies ghost roles have rights.

The only "right" a ghost role will have (from me) is that you cannot ruin the role as said role (blowing up syndicate base fnr, Spawning as Ash/Golem spawns and suiciding, etc.).
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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Wyzack » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:20 pm #275431

Basically what Ausops said is entirely true, ghost roles have no rights whatsoever and if an admin deems that round ending xenomorphs should not happen they are at liberty to delete them. Unless anyone wants to contest either of these points i dont think this thread serves any purpose
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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:27 pm #275435

Steelpoint wrote:(though the admins still have full rights to delete these things at their discretion)

This is essentially where this complaint lives or dies. Xenos are such a strong round influencing effect that admins have full discretion to allow or disallow their introduction to the round by ghosts or otherwise.

However if the xeno hive was in a obscure location, one that likely would have required ghost information to find, then all justification goes out the window along with the kitchen sink.

Given the nature of the vet clinic ghost role, its underused because there's really not much to do with it besides RP and the RP itself is extremely thin. Miners don't get anything out of interacting with it like they might say the space bar or golems or something. At best the clinic is a never-staffed medbay but pods already have sleepers so that covers everything the clinic could offer. The role itself has just always been a disposable human ghost mob that rarely spawns close enought to a xeno hive for a memer to run into the hive and make xenos from the facehugger. (Or the one time one ran out of the clinic just to shove my miner into a chasm.)

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Steelpoint » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:56 pm #275439

My main point I'm making is not justifying admins making a decision regarding Xenos, I believe admins are within their rights to remove non-admin made Xenomorphs from the round at their own discretion, the main point I'm making is the malicious, or non-malicious, intent of the person who got infected in the first place.

If they went out of their way, to a obscure corner of the map, to get infected then I think that showcases poor behaviour and clear metagaming on his part. But if the xeno hive was right next to, or near, the Vet then I don't see a reason to punish, warn or leave a admin note for that player when they interact with something that spawned next to their ghost area.

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Slignerd » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:04 pm #275443

Well, there was a bridge over a river of lava involved, as you can see by looking at the plating. Xenomorph nest was indeed nearby, south of the hospital, but it took effort to get there.

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:36 pm #275451

I agree with Ausops, this fell to context and admin discretion and isn't really actionable on a large scale like this. Unless Joan has any strong thoughts, this is resolved.
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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby onleavedontatme » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:57 pm #275456

"Ghost roles have no rights" is a stupid thing to say please stop spamming it, this complaint is still meritless without declaring you are free to grief other players mindlessly.

The rules of escalation with them are greatly relaxed but I'd still ban an admin who right click explosioned an ash walker nest fnr, or an assistant who broke into xenobio to kill every sentient mob, or a security officer who decides that the joint miner-golem base isnt fun so he's going to go to lavaland and tase every golem and throw them in lava.

Hell if a bunch of drones were building a bar in maint and the clown came and killed them all unprovoked I'd probably do something.

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby TehSteveo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:35 pm #275482

Kor wrote:"Ghost roles have no rights" is a stupid thing to say please stop spamming it, this complaint is still meritless without declaring you are free to grief other players mindlessly.

The rules of escalation with them are greatly relaxed but I'd still ban an admin who right click explosioned an ash walker nest fnr, or an assistant who broke into xenobio to kill every sentient mob, or a security officer who decides that the joint miner-golem base isnt fun so he's going to go to lavaland and tase every golem and throw them in lava.

Hell if a bunch of drones were building a bar in maint and the clown came and killed them all unprovoked I'd probably do something.
I agree with this sentiment. While rules are laxed around these roles, just being a dick to them for the sake of being a dick isn't really appreciated.
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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby Nilons » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:04 pm #275488

Kor wrote:"Ghost roles have no rights" is a stupid thing to say please stop spamming it, this complaint is still meritless without declaring you are free to grief other players mindlessly.

The rules of escalation with them are greatly relaxed but I'd still ban an admin who right click explosioned an ash walker nest fnr, or an assistant who broke into xenobio to kill every sentient mob, or a security officer who decides that the joint miner-golem base isnt fun so he's going to go to lavaland and tase every golem and throw them in lava.

Hell if a bunch of drones were building a bar in maint and the clown came and killed them all unprovoked I'd probably do something.


This honestly, sums it up

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby feem » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:34 pm #275557

There were already a number of antags in the game, actively being antagonistic, and the majority of the crew was alive. This individual spawned in as a veterinarian, beelined through numerous rock walls towards the nest, and got themselves infected, then ghosted out. This individual was warned and was given a note.

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Re: [Feemjmeem] Deleting a xenomorph-infected mob

Postby PKPenguin321 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:17 am #275630

Unanimously declared not actionable, see the headmin posts in this thread for why.
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