/tg/Station 13

So, at server time 2017-01-04 23:40:00, Feemjmeem went ahead and deleted and xenomorph-infected mob.





It feels like too much of an intervention? Xenomorph nest exists to include the possibility of someone getting infected while exploring Lavaland. Obviously, it's not fine to abuse the nest to infect others - but when one gets infected on their own, for an admin to just delete that mob and with it, all consequences of a player getting infected and a potentially engaging event - that doesn't really sit right with me.

I do not appreciate my round being changed because a ghost role/non-antag decided to self-infect to change the round's direction.

Ghost roles do not have rights.
Non-antags do not have rights to self infect to change the round's direction.

I agree. Using non-antag ghost roles to self-infect and produce xenos is lousy and Feem was right to intervene.

I missed most of the context, but I remember seeing a note feem made about self antagging

I think (and the above posts + quote are reinforcing what I think happened here) is someone spawned in as a ghost role, walked to a nest, and got facehugged on purpose - feem made a note about the player in question and deleted the mob

correct me if I'm wrong but if this is the case then this complaint isn't actionable, he made the right move, self antagging isn't allowed

Walking up to a nest is actionable under 'self-antagging'? That seems like a stretch.

>spawn as a non-antag
>do nothing but intentionally walk up to a nest to get facehugged
>beign facehugged will make you an alien which is an antag

that's self antagging, there's no stretch here, that's the definition

I don't think anyone else on the admin team will say feem overstepped his bounds here

Wew lads its the "My ghost role has rights" meme again.

Isn't actionable.

Stopping someone from using ghost roles to bring aliens into the round, at the individual discretion of an admin, is acceptable.

Minor point, but I don't think this is a case of self-antagging since a xeno spawn, last I checked, draws from all ghosted players at random.

I might be going off topic here but is there a reason to keep the veterinarian ruin in game?

It adds nothing but bloat the list of free lives you can get from lavaland.

Steelpoint wrote:Minor point, but I don't think this is a case of self-antagging since a xeno spawn, last I checked, draws from all ghosted players at random.

A xeno infection is rather likely to result in more xeno infections and the dead player getting xeno eventually.

D&B wrote:I might be going off topic here but is there a reason to keep the veterinarian ruin in game?

It adds nothing but bloat the list of free lives you can get from lavaland.

Here I got this covered

I think this all just depends on if they had any reason or not to be near the nest. Very little context given tbh

Good point.

If the xeno hive literally was next to the vet area, then the justification for this slightly leans in favour of the player (though the admins still have full rights to delete these things at their discretion), and this slightly gives some credit that this is a minor coding issue if a xeno hive can appear so close to a ghost spawn area.

However if the xeno hive was in a obscure location, one that likely would have required ghost information to find, then all justification goes out the window along with the kitchen sink.

Nilons wrote:I think this all just depends on if they had any reason or not to be near the nest. Very little context given tbh

That implies ghost roles have rights.

The only "right" a ghost role will have (from me) is that you cannot ruin the role as said role (blowing up syndicate base fnr, Spawning as Ash/Golem spawns and suiciding, etc.).

Basically what Ausops said is entirely true, ghost roles have no rights whatsoever and if an admin deems that round ending xenomorphs should not happen they are at liberty to delete them. Unless anyone wants to contest either of these points i dont think this thread serves any purpose

Steelpoint wrote:(though the admins still have full rights to delete these things at their discretion)

This is essentially where this complaint lives or dies. Xenos are such a strong round influencing effect that admins have full discretion to allow or disallow their introduction to the round by ghosts or otherwise.

However if the xeno hive was in a obscure location, one that likely would have required ghost information to find, then all justification goes out the window along with the kitchen sink.

Given the nature of the vet clinic ghost role, its underused because there's really not much to do with it besides RP and the RP itself is extremely thin. Miners don't get anything out of interacting with it like they might say the space bar or golems or something. At best the clinic is a never-staffed medbay but pods already have sleepers so that covers everything the clinic could offer. The role itself has just always been a disposable human ghost mob that rarely spawns close enought to a xeno hive for a memer to run into the hive and make xenos from the facehugger. (Or the one time one ran out of the clinic just to shove my miner into a chasm.)

My main point I'm making is not justifying admins making a decision regarding Xenos, I believe admins are within their rights to remove non-admin made Xenomorphs from the round at their own discretion, the main point I'm making is the malicious, or non-malicious, intent of the person who got infected in the first place.

If they went out of their way, to a obscure corner of the map, to get infected then I think that showcases poor behaviour and clear metagaming on his part. But if the xeno hive was right next to, or near, the Vet then I don't see a reason to punish, warn or leave a admin note for that player when they interact with something that spawned next to their ghost area.

Well, there was a bridge over a river of lava involved, as you can see by looking at the plating. Xenomorph nest was indeed nearby, south of the hospital, but it took effort to get there.

I agree with Ausops, this fell to context and admin discretion and isn't really actionable on a large scale like this. Unless Joan has any strong thoughts, this is resolved.

"Ghost roles have no rights" is a stupid thing to say please stop spamming it, this complaint is still meritless without declaring you are free to grief other players mindlessly.

The rules of escalation with them are greatly relaxed but I'd still ban an admin who right click explosioned an ash walker nest fnr, or an assistant who broke into xenobio to kill every sentient mob, or a security officer who decides that the joint miner-golem base isnt fun so he's going to go to lavaland and tase every golem and throw them in lava.

Hell if a bunch of drones were building a bar in maint and the clown came and killed them all unprovoked I'd probably do something.

Kor wrote:"Ghost roles have no rights" is a stupid thing to say please stop spamming it, this complaint is still meritless without declaring you are free to grief other players mindlessly.

The rules of escalation with them are greatly relaxed but I'd still ban an admin who right click explosioned an ash walker nest fnr, or an assistant who broke into xenobio to kill every sentient mob, or a security officer who decides that the joint miner-golem base isnt fun so he's going to go to lavaland and tase every golem and throw them in lava.

Hell if a bunch of drones were building a bar in maint and the clown came and killed them all unprovoked I'd probably do something.

I agree with this sentiment. While rules are laxed around these roles, just being a dick to them for the sake of being a dick isn't really appreciated.

Kor wrote:"Ghost roles have no rights" is a stupid thing to say please stop spamming it, this complaint is still meritless without declaring you are free to grief other players mindlessly.

The rules of escalation with them are greatly relaxed but I'd still ban an admin who right click explosioned an ash walker nest fnr, or an assistant who broke into xenobio to kill every sentient mob, or a security officer who decides that the joint miner-golem base isnt fun so he's going to go to lavaland and tase every golem and throw them in lava.

Hell if a bunch of drones were building a bar in maint and the clown came and killed them all unprovoked I'd probably do something.

This honestly, sums it up

There were already a number of antags in the game, actively being antagonistic, and the majority of the crew was alive. This individual spawned in as a veterinarian, beelined through numerous rock walls towards the nest, and got themselves infected, then ghosted out. This individual was warned and was given a note.

Unanimously declared not actionable, see the headmin posts in this thread for why.