/tg/Station 13

Byond account and character name: Repukan - Donatello Versus

Admin: Cheridan

Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: Bagil, 6:44 PM EST

Detailed summary: As I join into the round it is revealed there is a clock cult in the station and what not. Nothing much happens until I get on the shuttle. A borg named T1000 started flashing me until its flash broke, and due to the fact that this incurred eye damage on me and it kept pushing me around, I decide to return its fire because it was acting like a subverted borg. It then gets a catperson (Cecilia Meme) to assault me whilst riding on top of them in order to stop the onslaught. I die later on to someone different, but initially caused by the borg flashing me. I hover near the borg to see if it was truly subverted, and it turns out it was Asimov. I ahelp the shitty play and I get taunted in OOC by being called salty and "Make a ban request in the forums :^)" by Cheridan.

Irregardless of what transpired in the round or not, this is an absolute breach of whatever degree of formality administrators are held to. This is less about the in game actions that transpired in the game and more about the overall response done by the administrator, which I feel were not proper for someone in their position.

Logs would help clarify this beyond hearsay.

D&B wrote:Irregardless of what transpired in the round or not, this is an absolute breach of whatever degree of formality administrators are held to.

given that even the admins can't agree on this degree of formality I doubt an admincomplaint will make much dent

>Ahelping something that didn't even result in your death

How can you be this shitcurity and yet this unrobust?

And how can you be this demanding of formal procedure and yet also get banned like once a week?

Cheri's fine.

Because it sets a bad precedent.

I don't know in which cases it is acceptable to brush off someone and tell them to "make a ban request :^)" for making a legit ahelp. I could care less if I get admin bused for being me, but this shouldn't be let off to happen normally without it being noticed or else it could happen to other players that don't have accounts in the forum/are not informed enough to salt here.

D&B wrote:Irregardless

Logs would be appreciated (OOC logs, ahelps), see this thread to figure out how to get those

D&B wrote: an absolute breach of whatever degree of formality administrators are held to.

pfft

As I already explained to you in OOC, you got no response to your ahelp because it was like 2 minutes before the shuttle left and we were busy dealing with the bugged non-launching asteroid shuttle.

Cheridan wrote:

D&B wrote: an absolute breach of whatever degree of formality administrators are held to.

pfft :roll:

As I already explained to you in OOC, you got no response to your ahelp because it was like 2 minutes before the shuttle left and we were busy dealing with the bugged non-launching asteroid shuttle.

You could've delayed roundend or explained that you were busy instead of making a snarky response.

BeeSting12 wrote:

Cheridan wrote:

D&B wrote: an absolute breach of whatever degree of formality administrators are held to.

pfft

As I already explained to you in OOC, you got no response to your ahelp because it was like 2 minutes before the shuttle left and we were busy dealing with the bugged non-launching asteroid shuttle.

You could've delayed roundend or explained that you were busy instead of making a snarky response.

Cheridan just said "as I already explained to you in OOC"

maybe the snarky response didn't help, sure, but they explained the thing you asked them to explain, what's the problem here

Because the ahelp was sent before the shuttle even left, because it wasn't the only complain post round that was made by some players regarding silicons, and because they were being sassy and just waving me off?

I'll get the logs later today but seriously, since when are ahelps ignored before the shuttle even leaves? I've seen rounds extended and CTF enabled when ahelps were made during shuttle transit, so why is this the exception?

If I had done it too late to be seen then yeah I would brush it off and no shit I'd just suck it up, but this is something I haven't ever seen in my time playing here.

Cheridan wrote:

D&B wrote: an absolute breach of whatever degree of formality administrators are held to.

pfft

As I already explained to you in OOC, you got no response to your ahelp because it was like 2 minutes before the shuttle left and we were busy dealing with the bugged non-launching asteroid shuttle.

Don't we ban people for using this exact reasoning to grief? I'm not sure I agree with the thread because I'm a memer myself at times, but allowing grief prior to the shuttle launching/landing/etc. IS a bad precedent.

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:

Cheridan wrote:

D&B wrote: an absolute breach of whatever degree of formality administrators are held to.

pfft :roll:

As I already explained to you in OOC, you got no response to your ahelp because it was like 2 minutes before the shuttle left and we were busy dealing with the bugged non-launching asteroid shuttle.

Don't we ban people for using this exact reasoning to grief? I'm not sure I agree with the thread because I'm a memer myself at times, but allowing grief prior to the shuttle launching/landing/etc. IS a bad precedent.

the difference is, at least in my experience, when you meme in ahelps you've either taken care of it already or my adminhelp was obviously a joke in the first place

I checked and the may logs aren't appearing on the list.

I'd ask an admin to lock this until they're available so it's not just hearsay as cedar put it.

An unemagged and unfucked with borg starts messing with repukan randomly, then directly calls for their harm, and them fucking with him ended up getting rep killed(if the events described are unaltered and true). How is this not a cursory investigation? Even if it was round end a short "Ahelp it at the start of next round" would have sufficed instead of bullying someone for being memed on. This sounds like you either didn't want to even try to help repukan and deal with the situation in a best case scenario. Sure he gets banned every week but you can't just let players get fucked over because of that. Also it's ridiculous that players are expected to not post in admin complaints when admins are, how could anyone foresee that as not a circlejerk. Great idea lets force players to argue with every single admin when they have beef with one and not let players help or give their view point. Ban appeals I get but like come on how is it acceptable that the only people allowed to respond are also in the cool guy clique that the person who the complaint is about is in?

Asay and adminhelps/responses are filtered from logs so it is a bit silly you were asked to find them.

i thought shuttle griff was a serious rule violation and not a "pff get over it"

I'm guessing it's more of a "List what happened between you and the borg and what he said in OOC" kind of thing.

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:

Cheridan wrote:

D&B wrote: an absolute breach of whatever degree of formality administrators are held to.

pfft

As I already explained to you in OOC, you got no response to your ahelp because it was like 2 minutes before the shuttle left and we were busy dealing with the bugged non-launching asteroid shuttle.

Don't we ban people for using this exact reasoning to grief? I'm not sure I agree with the thread because I'm a memer myself at times, but allowing grief prior to the shuttle launching/landing/etc. IS a bad precedent.

I understood his statement to mean that they were trying to get the shuttle fixed before those two minutes ran out thus robbing them of time to deal with the ahelp issue and get the shuttle fixed at the same time.

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:

Cheridan wrote:

D&B wrote: an absolute breach of whatever degree of formality administrators are held to.

pfft

As I already explained to you in OOC, you got no response to your ahelp because it was like 2 minutes before the shuttle left and we were busy dealing with the bugged non-launching asteroid shuttle.

Don't we ban people for using this exact reasoning to grief? I'm not sure I agree with the thread because I'm a memer myself at times, but allowing grief prior to the shuttle launching/landing/etc. IS a bad precedent.

He didn't present it as shuttle grief. All he said in the ahelp was something along the lines of "T-1000 was being kinda shitty all round", which is a vague comment I'm not going to delay roundend for to do a full investigation. If he had instead said "T-1000 griefed me on the shuttle by repeatedly flashing me leading to a fight where I was killed" then I might have been inclined to actually look into it. After the round ends and the next round is setting up, he starts complaining in OOC about the incident.

I specified they flashed me multiple times for no reason

That statement alone is still not reason for investigation because flashing someone doesn't hurt them at all, so who cares. You can't leave out the "and then I died" and expect anyone to treat the situation with any gravity.

I don't remember the exact events I mentioned in the first ahelp, but I do remember that I mentioned that it was doing so as a non culted Borg.

Also how is causing eye damage and basically chain stunning someone not grief. People get in shit for spamming flashbangs in the shuttle, how is containing it to a single person for no discernible reason not grief?

Again, you didn't specify that he was chain stunning you. "He flashed me multiple times" is not enough information for an admin to spring into action over, it could mean as little as twice. If you had said "he's chain stunning me" or "he flashed me over 10 times in a row", etc then myself or one of the other admins on might not have ignored the ahelp.

Cheridan wrote:Again, you didn't specify that he was chain stunning you. "He flashed me multiple times" is not enough information for an admin to spring into action over, it could mean as little as twice. If you had said "he's chain stunning me" or "he flashed me over 10 times in a row", etc then myself or one of the other admins on might not have ignored the ahelp.

Pretty sure Ive just ahelped HELP at some point and gotten a response of some kind. Why is your response to him not giving you enough information to meme on him instead of asking for more information?

If an admin is free and willing to investigate an ahelp that is nothing but "HELP" then they can do so. I was not free. I was monitoring an issue effecting the whole server. No other admins were free or willing to look into it either, evidently. He was whining in OOC about the previous round, when all indication up to that point was that the matter was trivial, and the current admin philosophy is that previous rounds should be left in the past. That is why the IC issue button was added in-game and why Ban Requests was removed.

I reserve the right to meme on whoever I wish.

Affecting, not effecting.

Unless the issue was literally having the effect of making a server.

Kor wrote:Asay and adminhelps/responses are filtered from logs so it is a bit silly you were asked to find them.

I thought that was changed, my bad. I'll find logs myself later when I'm at a computer.

I'd like to add that in the same round, Cheridan dismissed me being murdered by a non-antag while T-1000 watched and injected tiring solution to help me be flashed and thrown in the murder machine as "You should have seen it coming"

Why didn't you see it coming?

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:I'd like to add that in the same round, Cheridan dismissed me being murdered by a non-antag while T-1000 watched and injected tiring solution to help me be flashed and thrown in the murder machine as "You should have seen it coming"

You walked into the roboticist's department, when there was dangerous equipment clearly visible inside (a cookie-powered tesla engine setup, not a "murder machine" as you put it, though dangerous either way), started punching people with gloves on, including the borg, who dosed you with tiring solution in a reasonable response.
I'm not going to ban someone because someone else is upset that they did something stupid and died over it. I also felt uncomfortable taking action because of how you were acting in asay; looking up the person's notes, etc. and trying to convince me to ban the person based on them. When a normal player gets a response that a problem is an IC issue he just has to accept it, it's not fair or ethical to allow an ahelper an 'advantage' in ahelping because they happen to be an admin.

I ruled it an IC issue and very clearly stated that if you disagreed you could bring the situation up with another admin.
This post doesn't even have anything to do with the original complaint here except for tangentially involving the same cyborg -- any blame for you dying would have gone on the roboticist.

Cheridan wrote:

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:I'd like to add that in the same round, Cheridan dismissed me being murdered by a non-antag while T-1000 watched and injected tiring solution to help me be flashed and thrown in the murder machine as "You should have seen it coming"

You walked into the roboticist's department, when there was dangerous equipment clearly visible inside (a cookie-powered tesla engine setup, not a "murder machine" as you put it, though dangerous either way), started punching people with gloves on, including the borg, who dosed you with tiring solution in a reasonable response.
I'm not going to ban someone because someone else is upset that they did something stupid and died over it. I also felt uncomfortable taking action because of how you were acting in asay; looking up the person's notes, etc. and trying to convince me to ban the person based on them. When a normal player gets a response that a problem is an IC issue he just has to accept it, it's not fair or ethical to allow an ahelper an 'advantage' in ahelping because they happen to be an admin.

I ruled it an IC issue and very clearly stated that if you disagreed you could bring the situation up with another admin.
This post doesn't even have anything to do with the original complaint here except for tangentially involving the same cyborg -- any blame for you dying would have gone on the roboticist.

Im against cheri on the original matter but this seems clear cut play stupid games win stupid prizes

the borg still broke its laws by standing still and letting the dude be thrown into tesla grilles, regardless of what he was doing, in the above case.

on the original matter: cheridan should've investigated it further because he still gave adequate detail.

@Cheri @Cedar

Ah alright, thanks for the clarification.

Or, you know, they could have waited until the round ended and then delayed it so they could do their job

Or atleast not mock him in ooc

Armhulen wrote:Or, you know, they could have waited until the round ended and then delayed it so they could do their job

Or atleast not mock him in ooc

This honestly, a public shaming is not somehow a proper response because youre busy and dont like the level of info they gave you

Edit: I rescind my dissenting opinions because cheris avatar is great

A proper shaming may in fact not be the public look we want our admins to have.

Players however should remember that our admins are volunteers and not paid 911 dispatchers professionally trained to patiently coax out information from each and every vague ahelp they get.