[qbopper and Thunder] Ezri Dax - Bad handling of Ahelps

[Dax Dupont]

Byond account and character name: HollaHollaFoADolla Ezri Dax
Admin: qbopper and Thunder
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: sybil around 18:20CET
Detailed summary:
So, let's show the situation first:
I am a captain, Medbay is broken/dismantled and I am trying to fix it, but a security officer slips me like 20 times over syndie soap laying around while I am desperately trying to fix ALL of medical so I harmbatton him a couple of times and heal him fully.

Then I catch a traitor mime and execute him in the sec hallway, after announcing it.

HoS comes out and stuns me, lets the mime escape and jails me for "treason" because I harmbattoned his officer for the 20 slips in a sensitive situation with people dying in medical hallways. Tells me he's gonna execute me, specifically space me.

I manage to get out and try to escape, shooting my way out.
I get caught against and spend the next 30 minutes of my round bucklecuffed in the bridge for some reason before they Hos/Kristopher Eastman and Hop/Kliment Petrenko decide to drag me to be spaced. I catch the mime again and handle him.

Then I go to research, get locked in by an asimov borg and the RD/jack richards lethals me while I am stuck in a room.
The RD Jack Richards wasn't an antag.

What do the admins do?
They send a message how the people's pay will be docked and they will get lashes.

This is ridiculous, there's a lot of rule violations and the admins don't even bother talking to me directly aside from one or two things.
There is no way that this is standard procedure to handle large violations like this with multiple people.

[Thunder11]

HoP was a traitor, and one of the main people running the whole thing. HoS was being dumb, and got told to use his own brain for once. Jack was acting on the basis that people were screaming you were rogue and killing people. Basically the whole situation was a result of poor communication and manipulation by an antag, but fuck me for trying to encourage people to find an IC solution instead of immedaitely banning everyone involved, I guess.

[Armhulen]

We talked about not taunting players for losing, it's shitty to do.

[Dax Dupont]

HoP was a traitor, and one of the main people running the whole thing. HoS was being dumb, and got told to use his own brain for once. Jack was acting on the basis that people were screaming you were rogue and killing people. Basically the whole situation was a result of poor communication and manipulation by an antag, but fuck me for trying to encourage people to find an IC solution instead of immedaitely banning everyone involved, I guess.

Banning would have made more sense than just fucking tauning people. If a HoS tries to execute the captain for such a thing and letting a TRAITOR escape to do it. The HoP only came in AFTER that happened.

[danno]

Thunder and Qbopper should perhaps read the admin thread regarding the general concern with stupid command reports, whichever of you actually made it

[lzimann]

[16:17:02]ADMIN: Thunder12345/(Emily Vargas) has created a command report: Central Command messaging system is back online. Please re-send any previous messages. We had a printer malfunction.

[16:25:25]ADMIN: Thunder12345/(Emily Vargas) has created a command report: We have noted that your command crew is unable to resolve a simple dispute regarding your captain. This is unacceptable, and we expect action to be taken to correct the situation.

[16:35:05]ADMIN: Thunder12345/(Emily Vargas) has created a command report: In light of your command staff's complete failure to suitably handle this dispute, the following sanctions are to be issued:

As acting captain, Head of Personnel Petrenko is to be considered directly responsible for the failure. Docking of three months pay, ten lashes and relief of command.

For failing to take the situation in hand, Head of Security Eastman: Docking of one month's pay, and a stern beating.

All remaining command staff, for failure to assume command when it became clear the former were incapable: Docking of one month's pay.

These are all the centcomm reports on the round this happened. Note that this is just the reports with no context whatsoever.

[Dax Dupont]

Considering I got noted/bannu'd for less, it's really aggravating, especially when it's COMMAND/SECURITY acting like complete greytides and assholery in general. It's infuriating that only those command messages get sent and end round they just seemed to use that as pat on the back more than anything else.
The very least I could get some proper admin replies back, especially about that asimov borg letting the mime shoot people and let me get murdered by the RD. I was just ignored after those centcomm messages were sent.

[Thunder11]

Considering I got noted/bannu'd for less, it's really aggravating, especially when it's COMMAND/SECURITY acting like complete greytides and assholery in general. It's infuriating that only those command messages get sent and end round they just seemed to use that as pat on the back more than anything else.
The very least I could get some proper admin replies back, especially about that asimov borg letting the mime shoot people and let me get murdered by the RD. I was just ignored after those centcomm messages were sent.

I've repeat in case you missed it the first time. The HoP was a traitor, and was the one convincing everyone else you were rogue. I spoke the the HoS about being so trusting and not making any attempt to investigate for himself. I went to a great deal of effort to negotiate with the HoP through CentComm messages, and he was willing to have you cloned and put on trial. The RD was going on the basis of you being an escaped prisoner and hearing you were killing someone. The situation was stupid, but it was still IC, and I made what effort I could to get an interesting, IC resolution to it. Not every single situation has to end up in someone getting banned, and not everything goes your way all the time.

[bandit]

I am not familiar with the round, but just from how you've described it, this seems like conflict being resolved through IC means -- jailing for treason -- and I would also not be surprised if there was some incomplete information with the parties involved, especially since command radio would probably be unusable to coordinate and because one person involved was a traitor. People keep talking about wanting more RP and a game that doesn't revolve around antags, but that cannot happen if every in-character dispute is outsourced to the admins to play security, lawyer, detective and internal affairs at once.

This, to me, is what the command reports suggest: that it is an IC issue, and the "verdict" is being delivered IC. I know admins have varying opinions both on using command reports and on enforcing rules, but I don't see a problem. The discussion Armhulenn is referring to is more about blatant OOC shitposts delivered via command report, which is not this.

[Dax Dupont]

So all you got to do is call the roundstart/mindshielded captain a traitor on flimsy reasoning, arrest him and get the keys to station.
Kay.

[bandit]

Oh look, it's our old friend the "DOES THAT MEAN I CAN ______ AND IT'LL BE OKAY?" argument again

[Dax Dupont]

Oh look, it's our old friend the "DOES THAT MEAN I CAN ______ AND IT'LL BE OKAY?" argument again

Yup.

[Thunder11]

I'll say it one more time, in case you're struggling to understand it. The person pushing the entire situation along was the HoP. The traitor HoP.

[Dax Dupont]

I'll say it one more time, in case you're struggling to understand it. The person pushing the entire situation along was the HoP. The traitor HoP.

That only happened AFTER the whole threat to execution.

[Qbopper]

I didn't send any reports so unless there's something else I'm missing I don't think this is related to me

[danno]

After reading the actual command reports sent I'm less annoyed because as far as dumb command reports go they're fairly tolerable, although I'm still dubious as to whether it's the right thing to do to make such reports in the first place
I just sure hate admin command reports

[Qbopper]

I'm having trouble recalling the events of the round because I was very busy with bagil and sybil at the same time, but I remember taking issue with you harmbatoning the officer instead of simply arresting them or something

I had to go soon after so I didn't see the resolution of the situation, so I can't comment, but I think it's also important to note that admins don't always respond with details about the entire situation after resolving it

I just sure hate admin command reports

no fun allowed

[danno]

""""fun""""

yeah sarcastic OOC reports are just heaps of fun for everyone to read

[MrStonedOne]

The command reports seem fine, the op's description of them is grossly lacking, but not misleading.

All further discussion in this thread should be limited purely to rather or not the admin should have given ooc consequences to the RD or the HoS. Everything else is off topic.

I would like to see an admin post more logs on how the hop was convincing the heads to do all of this, that kind of context matters, (some what)

[PKPenguin321]

Looked this over and log dived.

Seems everything escalated from the miscommunication indirectly caused by the interaction with you and the sec officer who kept slipping you. I've adminned this type of situation before: It's hard to ban anybody, since everybody else is by their point of view presumably in the right (they had genuine reason to believe you were being an evil murderous dick), and the initial instigator (the soap officer) alone had no way of knowing the outcome of his relatively small actions. Thunder made an extravagant attempt at IC resolution, including multiple very insistent direct centcomm messages to heads of staff and command reports (mostly involving trying to start a trial and at one point even attempting to spawn centcomm backup which failed due to a lack of ghosts), which unfortunately fell through. I personally don't think he is really to blame, and this situation doesn't really speak enough to his ability to administrate as to warrant pushing discipline on him because of this complaint.

What happened was unfortunate, but I think this could boil down to rule 10. This is a game where communication is intentionally imperfect, and as such, miscommunication and mishandling of situations in game will happen. Events will often be out of your control. In this case, there was simply poor escalation due to the HoS misinterpreting the soap officer situation. The traitor HoP helped push this view with traitorous intent, and much of the rest of the crew (RD included) followed this flawed perspective based off of what they were told by the HoS and HoP. It sucks, but that's just what happened.

Anyways, I don't think this is something to hold against Thunder, and qbopper didn't seem to be relevant at all except that he was idle on the server at the time. Complaint closed, unless both other headmins want to disagree.