Bob Dobbington - YakumoChen - Unbelievably Shitty Round

[Yakumo_Chen]

Byond account and character name: YakumoChen
Admin: BobDobbington
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: Bagil, Round 72552, 4:12 Server Time Jun 28
Detailed summary:

Faked an extended call, which led to half of the security team plus the captain suiciding.

Spawned two cults, chrono men (who are buggy as mother fuck), a one way ladder in the middle of the hall to lavaland, other terrible shit that made the round an absolute disaster, especially with the mass sec/head suicide.

Don't fake fucking extended then spam antags what the fuck

[Bob Dobbington]

Sorry you didn't like the event! I make it a point during events I run to make it as difficult as possible to associate the round with a specific gamemode, since I specifically run events to do something that falls outside the typical SS13 metagame. The people overwhelmingly voted for a "bullshit event," and I thought having a ladder to Lavaland would be an interesting spin on cult v cult. Not sure what policies you're implying I've broken but if you want to substantiate that I'd be happy to respond to those as well. Other than that not sure what I can offer you?

[Yakumo_Chen]

Your extended announcment lead to security being completely overwhelmed before anyone knew there was a cult (let alone two, let alone two plus additional bullshit), since half of them suicided immediately. If you're going to force an event then at least let the secret extended mode roll.

Also cults aren't fun and having two of them in a time slot where there's med-low pop is cancer.

There wasn't any indication of an event and I never saw the vote go down.

[oranges]

Maybe if you spent some time playing instead of typing up complaints you might enjoy the game more

[Yakumo_Chen]

It's shit like this that makes security unbearable to play (which makes rounds even more shitty when nobody wants to play security and put up with this shit and antags inevitably steamroll every round).

extended is fun when it's actually extended. Announcing extended, full well knowing it's going to lead to a mass suicide of people who know they're going to be bored by it (security, assistants) then spamming antags only leads to the people who didn't suicide suffer doubly

[Bob Dobbington]

Regarding players making the choice to remove themselves from the round because they believe there will be no valids to hunt: I've always believed that players create the play environment they deserve for themselves.

[Yakumo_Chen]

Is it fair to the other players who don't suicide when you knowing play the extended announcment, knowing it will cause an environment that will be shittier for those playing?

Do I honestly deserve as security to be overwhelmed by shitty antags that I can't do anything about EXCEPT valid because half my team died thinking they would be bored?

If I knew there was two cults after half the team suicided I would have suicided too, to be honest. I nor anyone else playing security should be forced to endure shitty antag spam.

Cult isn't a fun mode, it's a validfest and removing half the players who are forced to participate in one side of it doesn't produce a fun or interesting round, just a shitshow. There's no meaningful way to do a security job except to validhunt when you're forced into these modes, especially when you're smashing buttons and piling them on. Normally I like to try at least a modicum of roleplay as security but there's honestly a breaking point where I can't have fun with that when the station is immediately overwhelmed by validhunting team antags.

[danno]

Security is more than just a role to combat antagonists, they have a job handling all of the rest of the non-antag IC situations that happen in a round
anyone who suicided and got upset afterwards is, I would assume, unaware of that facet of the job
or just a valid hunter

so honestly I think it's pretty funny that you get pissed off because you think you can't valid hunt so you would kill yourself

[PKPenguin321]

Running antagonists during announced extended was done a lot when we had announced extended enabled and isn't actionable as it's just a thing admins could/can do as a metabreaker, so I'll be ignoring that. Security/the heads of staff offing themselves is their own fault, and not the fault of the admin.

Feel free to continue to complain about the other aspects of the event if you desire.

[Armhulen]

This event makes no sense

[Lazengann]

Chrono troopers kill at range with one click, they're pretty unfun

[kevinz000]

There's nothing wrong with a metabreaker once in a while to show players that nothing good will come for them if they think extended is a reason to suicide/grief.
Whether one hit kill chronotroopers are fun to play against is another matter.

[Cobby]

I don't think this is actionable in any way but the whole reason why extended was announced and made non-secret in the first place is so people could work on larger projects without fear of an antagonist ruining their hard work or in this instance have to work for their team instead of just doing whatever they feel like doing. It had nothing to do with a metabreaker.

There's nothing wrong with a metabreaker once in a while to show players that nothing good will come for them if they think extended is a reason to suicide/grief.

There's nothing wrong with suiciding because it's extended when a large portion of the game relies on an antagonist or SOME conflict to occur.

[captain sawrge]

Cobby hit the nail on the head.
Extended isn't fun for sec. It isn't fun for a lot of people but it especially isn't fun for sec. At best you get a boring round and at worst it's you vs. the world because everyone else is so bored they resolve to just Fuck Shit Up til the round ends, and then you either try to deal with it (and the impending OOC shitstorm for doing your job) or you give up, type suicide, and hope next round you get less complicated targets.
Pretending it's extended isn't a "meta breaker" (why do we even need these? The things they're trying to circumvent exist for a reason). It's just fucking over what is already one of the most thankless and often stressful jobs in the game.

There's also very little sense in indicting people for "valid hunting" because that is the central most gameplay of our server. That is what the game revolves around. Don't be a high and mighty cunt because you're too stupid to see that when almost every policy thread revolves around when it is or isn't okay to kill someone and the majority of code changes are specifically centered towards antags and player conflict. "Valid hunting," the player vs. antag dynamic, is the core of this server's gameplay. Player conflict is what drives every round. Any admin trying to fault people for this behaviour lacks an understanding of the game they are attempting to moderate.

Spoiler:

let it never be said that dannno and i exist just to parrot each other's opinions

[feem]

For what it's worth, a real extended announcement inevitably results in half a dozen players immediately ahelping or praying for events, another half a dozen [or more] players suiciding, and another half a dozen [or more] going braindead during prime hours.

A good portion of the time, antags are created during _real_ extended announcements anyway.

This has already been covered and is why pkp said as much.

Additionally, we have a large sticky post in this forum about complaints regarding admin events which you should probably read, if you haven't already:

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3855

[Yakumo_Chen]

We got rid of announced extended for exactly the reasons listed why it shouldn't be "actionable". Playing the announcement anyway is just asking for it. We have Secret Extended back so that there's no meta issue, no reason to immediately suicide and wait for next round.

I would have been perfectly happy dealing with a bunch of shitty antagonists had half the players I need to rely on hadn't suicided because they thought it was extended. Like cobby said, we don't need an 'extended metabreaker' because extended doesn't publicly show up now and it's SUPPOSED to be buildmode, that was the entire fucking point of making it announced anyway. You ruin the point of ever making the announcment if you're just going to spam antags during it anyawy.

[PKPenguin321]

Right, well if there's no issue with the other aspects of the event aside from the thing I already said I wouldn't take action on, then this can be safely closed.