[StickyMayhem] Smashes that meteor button because of wiz

[Saegrimr]

Wizard starts murderboning, I was the first one killed I believe. Ghost follow the wiz and watch him kill a few more, fireballs Sticky in the surgery room and loses some limbs. I assumed he just died in there at that point but I guess he stayed alive just stuck in the surgery room for the next few minutes.
Later he makes some centcom messages about turning up the gravity generator to pull in meteors to stop the wizard, then does so. 3 waves of meteors if I remember correctly.

The excuse I got in ahelp was "The wizard didn't actually kill me so it's okay." along with "Wizard murderboner so it's okay."

Admin PM from- Stickymayhem : You were an admin I'm surprised you don't remember how we treat rounds where a murderboning wizard ruins everything.
PM to- Admins : Yeah, but I always wasn't a player that got killed during those.
Admin PM from- Stickymayhem : Again, I was alive until a meteor hit me mate
Admin PM from- Stickymayhem : So if that's the basis of your complaint it's not even relevant
Admin PM from- Stickymayhem : 26[11:35:52] Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner): has been fired at by Renmar the Fickle(keltheoblivious) with The bolt of death Surgery (NEWHP: 8.75) (74,97,2)
Admin PM from- Stickymayhem : 27[11:36:58] Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner): has climbed onto table with (74,101,2)
Admin PM from- Stickymayhem : I was alive several minutes after contact with the wiizard
Admin PM from- Stickymayhem : So uhh, I guess I'll post that in your weird thread

tl;dr Gets dropped by a wizard and meteors station in retaliation. Not cool imo.

Round ID: 82472

[Stickymayhem]

2 Meteor waves. Most of the station was dead. The wizard didn't care, the crew didn't care. Only Saegrimr seemed to have a problem with it.

I don't really have more to say to be honest. It was a pretty standard case of ending a dull uncontested murderboner by the wizard.

tl;dr Gets dropped by a wizard and meteors station in retaliation. Not cool imo.

Your post literally shows this isn't the case. I wasn't even killed until a meteor hit me.

[Saegrimr]

I wasn't even killed until a meteor hit me.

Yes died locked in the same surgery room you initially got fireballed and dismembered in until a meteor came and finished the job.
I'd be surprised if you didn't adminghost around during it, if someone could provide those logs.

[BeeSting12]

I don't think you should be using admin tools while playing unless it's to investigate a player's problem.

[Stickymayhem]

I wasn't even killed until a meteor hit me.

Yes died locked in the same surgery room you initially got fireballed and dismembered in until a meteor came and finished the job.
I'd be surprised if you didn't adminghost around during it, if someone could provide those logs.

I did aghost. I was an assistant. I wasn't trapped there was a wide hole into the all access surgery foyer I just aghosted instead of suiciding/ghosting. In 4 years no one has ever mentioned that aghosting instead of going braindead was a problem. I do it frequently literally just because f5 is quicker than ooc>ghost. If a headmin says that's not cool I'll just ghost. It's identical in result to me either way. I didn't go back in once after aghosting, and I do it all the time, openly. If I was doing something dodgey I wouldn't be doing it in front of pretty much every active admin on the server without trying to hide it.

It's common for admins to push buttons after they have died in the round, or while still alive. There has never been any kind of policy about this and if they want to make one that's fine.

So basically this thread is garbage.

[Saegrimr]

So basically this thread is garbage.

Not really for you to decide here.
If headmins say this is okay behavior then it's whatever.

[Stickymayhem]

So basically this thread is garbage.

Not really for you to decide here.
If headmins say this is okay behavior then it's whatever.

Fair enough.

I will say that there is a branch of administration that can be done with strict adherence to the rules without regard for opinion and outcome. There is also a branch of adminstration that will take into account outcome and whether something was malicious or really upset people.

Under either of those assumptions, this was not an issue. There are no specific rules about this and no one seems to have cared other than you, and even you weren't personally affected in any way.

That's why think this thread is pointless

[captain sawrge]

It's common for admins to push buttons after they have died in the round, or while still alive. There has never been any kind of policy about this and if they want to make one that's fine.

So basically this thread is garbage.

Huh, this is news to me considering the common school of thought it's generally considered good form to deadminself if you're going to play so you don't do nonsense like this. Never once have I heard another admin say something like this.

Wizard is a rare roundtype to begin with and the odds of any individual player getting the role are incredibly small. I've played the game for around six years now and have rolled wiz maybe three times. Yeah murderbone can be tedious but considering they're quick rounds and often it's the first (and one of the few) time a player gets to experience the role and what it has to offer it only seems ridiculously petty to try to punish them for going down that route, especially if you were a player involved in the round, involved in fighting that wizard.

[Qbopper]

It's common for admins to push buttons after they have died in the round, or while still alive. There has never been any kind of policy about this and if they want to make one that's fine.

So basically this thread is garbage.

I would just like to point out that no, it is not common for admins to push buttons after they have died in the round, and implying otherwise is absolutely ridiculous

[Stickymayhem]

It's common for admins to push buttons after they have died in the round, or while still alive. There has never been any kind of policy about this and if they want to make one that's fine.

So basically this thread is garbage.

I would just like to point out that no, it is not common for admins to push buttons after they have died in the round, and implying otherwise is absolutely ridiculous

I don't know how to describe common other than I've seen it all the time but I've seen it all the time. In five or so years this hasn't been mentioned to be once, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere and no one has stopped me. I've seen no detrimental effects because of this, including this thread, and I can't think why there would be.

So I'd love to hear the reasoniing behind that and why/if that exists, because again, I have not heard anything about it. I've acted like this in full-view of dozens of other admins and headmins, without a word.

[Qbopper]

It's common for admins to push buttons after they have died in the round, or while still alive. There has never been any kind of policy about this and if they want to make one that's fine.

So basically this thread is garbage.

I would just like to point out that no, it is not common for admins to push buttons after they have died in the round, and implying otherwise is absolutely ridiculous

I don't know how to describe common other than I've seen it all the time but I've seen it all the time. In five or so years this hasn't been mentioned to be once, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere and no one has stopped me. I've seen no detrimental effects because of this, including this thread, and I can't think why there would be.

So I'd love to hear the reasoniing behind that and why/if that exists, because again, I have not heard anything about it. I've acted like this in full-view of dozens of other admins and headmins, without a word.

can you please go into detail about these times you've pushed buttons while playing in the round? I find it very hard to believe nobody would immediately call you out for smashing that mf meteor button or similar shit

[Nilons]

It's pretty established by admins in the past that just because you haven't been called out for something before, or because other people are also doing something wrong it's not suddenly ok. Although it should probably have an effect on the outcome of the situation

[Stickymayhem]

It's common for admins to push buttons after they have died in the round, or while still alive. There has never been any kind of policy about this and if they want to make one that's fine.

So basically this thread is garbage.

I would just like to point out that no, it is not common for admins to push buttons after they have died in the round, and implying otherwise is absolutely ridiculous

I don't know how to describe common other than I've seen it all the time but I've seen it all the time. In five or so years this hasn't been mentioned to be once, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere and no one has stopped me. I've seen no detrimental effects because of this, including this thread, and I can't think why there would be.

So I'd love to hear the reasoniing behind that and why/if that exists, because again, I have not heard anything about it. I've acted like this in full-view of dozens of other admins and headmins, without a word.

can you please go into detail about these times you've pushed buttons while playing in the round? I find it very hard to believe nobody would immediately call you out for smashing that mf meteor button or similar shit

Frankly it's so frequent and normal to me that I'd struggle to find particular examples. I still play the game a lot. As I understand it, convention has always been to deadmin for any role with influence over the round/ that could cause issues knowing the antag by chance, so any security, head, Captain or silicon. I specifically play assistant most rounds when few people are online so I can easily aghost for tickets. Frequently I forget I was ever a part of the round, as aghosting for a tickets leads to another ticket leads to observing an escalating situation and then I'm basically just a ghost. It happens more rounds than not. Again, all in front of other admins.

It's not even hiding in plain sight or anything. We talk about the round in asay all the time. I've never abused the knowledge, I don't metagame, and I never even conflict with antags if I'm not deadminned (Or they aren't literally attacking me at that moment).

It's been so obvious and open I struggle to see how it isn't normal or surely an admin, or even head would have said something.

I reckon the majority of my minor events occur after I die. By those I mean a button push on a stagnant round, mini things like a cargo or centcom event and so on. For my events that are realistically a custom gamemode I observe from the start since obviously I need to observe and know how the round is going to play out somewhat.

I've yet to hear any reasoning behind why this isn't ok. Admins are responsible for far more than meta-knowledge. In however many years I've been admin I've never had issues separating metaknowledge. I've played so long I can practically guess the roundtype in the first ten minutes with 90% accuracy and I don't act on that knowledge either.

No player has complained or brought this up, no admin, no headmin.

I'm genuinely surprised that this is getting any attention at all. If things have changed I wasn't made aware.

[EagleWiz]

I've acted like this in full-view of dozens of other admins and headmins, without a word.

You regularly spawn round ending events after antags make it difficult/impossible for you to continue playing? I really hope thats a joke ...

[Stickymayhem]

It's pretty established by admins in the past that just because you haven't been called out for something before, or because other people are also doing something wrong it's not suddenly ok. Although it should probably have an effect on the outcome of the situation

Absolutely, I agree with that. And if this is wrong I'm sure the headmins will establish it as a precedent, but I've literally never encountered this criticism in the nearly five years I've been admin. I took a break for about a year and a half after my last stint as headmiin so if it changed during that time I wouldn't know and no one told me

[Qbopper]

Frankly it's so frequent and normal to me that I'd struggle to find particular examples. I still play the game a lot. As I understand it, convention has always been to deadmin for any role with influence over the round/ that could cause issues knowing the antag by chance, so any security, head, Captain or silicon. I specifically play assistant most rounds when few people are online so I can easily aghost for tickets. Frequently I forget I was ever a part of the round, as aghosting for a tickets leads to another ticket leads to observing an escalating situation and then I'm basically just a ghost. It happens more rounds than not. Again, all in front of other admins.

It's not even hiding in plain sight or anything. We talk about the round in asay all the time. I've never abused the knowledge, I don't metagame, and I never even conflict with antags if I'm not deadminned (Or they aren't literally attacking me at that moment).

this is fine and normal and not what i'm talking about

I reckon the majority of my minor events occur after I die.

pressing the meteor button 3 times is not a "minor event"

hence this thread

It's pretty established by admins in the past that just because you haven't been called out for something before, or because other people are also doing something wrong it's not suddenly ok. Although it should probably have an effect on the outcome of the situation

Absolutely, I agree with that. And if this is wrong I'm sure the headmins will establish it as a precedent, but I've literally never encountered this criticism in the nearly five years I've been admin. I took a break for about a year and a half after my last stint as headmiin so if it changed during that time I wouldn't know and no one told me

it hasn't been established as a precedent because this is the first time i've ever heard of an admin thinking it was ok to spawn meteors after they died

i wasn't an admin years ago but i seriously doubt this was okay then as well

[Stickymayhem]

I've acted like this in full-view of dozens of other admins and headmins, without a word.

You regularly spawn round ending events after antags make it difficult/impossible for you to continue playing? I really hope thats a joke ...

If that's the extremely simplistic connection you want to make then I can't stop you but that doesn't make it accurate.

[MrStonedOne]

I've acted like this in full-view of dozens of other admins and headmins, without a word.

You regularly spawn round ending events after antags make it difficult/impossible for you to continue playing? I really hope thats a joke ...

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

[Stickymayhem]

snip

The problem with this whole thread is that you're making a very basic connection that isn't there. I didn't spawn meteors after I died (Not even on a logical level. I myself was killed by the meteors I SPAWNED, so even this basic criticism is faulty).

The assumption people skimming this are going to make is "Woah look at stick he dies and spams meteors so he can end the round faster".

No, I would have done this whether I had been in the round or not. I'm not doing some weird garbage to try to get rounds over quicker, I'm trying to keep rounds from getting stale. I don't do it all the time, but hell, plenty of my boring murderboners get stopped by admin intervention. It's not unprecedented. Again, THIS HAD A POSITIVE EFFECT ON THE ROUND IN QUESTION, NO ONE WAS UPSET, THE WIZARD WAS EVEN FINE WITH IT.

This is literally Saegrimr trying to fault me on a technicality for no reason I can see.

And again, why is this at all wrong. We trust admins with so much more. We don't force admins to deadmin for basic low-tier roles because it makes them burn out so much faster if they can't play the game they volunteered to improve when they want to. Heads and Security are reasonable limits, but I'm not going to fault any admin for not deadminning to play assistant, or clown, or botany or whatever low-tier role they want to play before the ahelps pop up.

[MrStonedOne]

It is common for admins to stay admined while in game, and push buttons while in game. I once pushed the create random traitors button while mopping as a janitor because the 10 minute round start report sent to all admins had indicated that 2 of the antags had dc'ed or gone afk.

How ever most rounds have multiple antags, wiz has just one. this creates a situation where actions applied to the round are basically actions applied to the wizard because they are one in the same.

The separation between the antag as a group and a individual antag is basically nonexistent, so something like this can seem (and even be) more personal.

[Stickymayhem]

It is extremely common for admins to stay admined while in game, and push buttons while in game. I once pushed the create random traitors button while mopping as a janitor because the 10 minute round start report sent to all admins had indicated that 2 of the antags had dc'ed or gone afk.

How ever most rounds have multiple antags, wiz has just one. this creates a situation where actions applied to the round are basically actions applied to the wizard because they are one in the same.

The separation between the antag as a group and a individual antag is basically nonexistent, so something like this can seem (and even be) more personal.

That is an actual good point, and had this complaint been made by the wizard I would respond to it with far more concern, but the wizard had completed the objective, had won uncontested and was as ready for the round to end as anyone else. In OOC afterwards they were absolute fine with the outcome, appeared to be in a good mood (Since they'd won and killed everyone) and had no negative comments about the meteors that I noticed.

I have been individually targetted by admins as a successful murderboner. I've seen other murderboners get the same treatment. In the spirit of SS13, I think it's fine. It's a badge of honour to be so robust and successful that admins have to intervene just to give the crew a fighting chance. I'm sure that's why the wizard was fine with the outcome as well.

What I really don't understand is the point of Saegrimr's thread. No one was upset, not even, it seems, him. This a pure technicality that doesn't even seem to exist.

[Qbopper]

snip

The problem with this whole thread is that you're making a very basic connection that isn't there. I didn't spawn meteors after I died (Not even on a logical level. I myself was killed by the meteors I SPAWNED, so even this basic criticism is faulty).

The assumption people skimming this are going to make is "Woah look at stick he dies and spams meteors so he can end the round faster".

No, I would have done this whether I had been in the round or not. I'm not doing some weird garbage to try to get rounds over quicker, I'm trying to keep rounds from getting stale. I don't do it all the time, but hell, plenty of my boring murderboners get stopped by admin intervention. It's not unprecedented. Again, THIS HAD A POSITIVE EFFECT ON THE ROUND IN QUESTION, NO ONE WAS UPSET, THE WIZARD WAS EVEN FINE WITH IT.

This is literally Saegrimr trying to fault me on a technicality for no reason I can see.

And again, why is this at all wrong. We trust admins with so much more. We don't force admins to deadmin for basic low-tier roles because it makes them burn out so much faster if they can't play the game they volunteered to improve when they want to. Heads and Security are reasonable limits, but I'm not going to fault any admin for not deadminning to play assistant, or clown, or botany or whatever low-tier role they want to play before the ahelps pop up.

saying "you died and spawned meteors in retaliation" is false yes i know that but i don't see why meteors had to be spawned in the first place and please don't say "to prevent the round from getting stale" again because there are plenty of admins who do not resort to meteors, especially in a wizard round, where rounds are often over absurdly quickly

i don't really think you're seeing my point so i'll bow out because we're just going to say the same thing over and over

It is common for admins to stay admined while in game, and push buttons while in game. I once pushed the create random traitors button while mopping as a janitor because the 10 minute round start report sent to all admins had indicated that 2 of the antags had dc'ed or gone afk.

How ever most rounds have multiple antags, wiz has just one. this creates a situation where actions applied to the round are basically actions applied to the wizard because they are one in the same.

The separation between the antag as a group and a individual antag is basically nonexistent, so something like this can seem (and even be) more personal.

i probably should have been more specific - pushing buttons to affect the round in cases like you describe are absolutely reasonable and are not going to be faulted by anybody, and yes, again, playing while adminning is common, i used to do it myself, i know that

i'm just extremely surprised that any admin would think meteors spice up the round in any way beyond "just fucking call it"

[SpaceInaba]

. I've seen other murderboners get the same treatment. In the spirit of SS13, I think it's fine. It's a badge of honour to be so robust and successful that admins have to intervene just to give the crew a fighting chance. I'm sure that's why the wizard was fine with the outcome as well.

Im gonna cherrypick this and ask how meteors helps give the crew a fighting chance when the most likely outcome of meteors is the crew dying and the wizard that is rolling in resources being completely unharmed

[onleavedontatme]

It is common for admins to stay admined while in game, and push buttons while in game. I once pushed the create random traitors button while mopping as a janitor because the 10 minute round start report sent to all admins had indicated that 2 of the antags had dc'ed or gone afk.

How ever most rounds have multiple antags, wiz has just one. this creates a situation where actions applied to the round are basically actions applied to the wizard because they are one in the same.

The separation between the antag as a group and a individual antag is basically nonexistent, so something like this can seem (and even be) more personal.

I think actively fighting the antag, getting your limbs removed by the antag, and then readmimning and blowing up the round is different than an admin just mopping and adding some new traitors when all the old ones died

First one feels closer to answering your own ahelps, latter is regular adminning except you are also clicking on blood decals

I don't think we'd lose much by just requiring admins to stay hands off any round they play in at all though if people are having trouble telling the difference. It looks terrible to players.

[cedarbridge]

I'm a bit on the fence here.

My first concern with this is it feels like it encourages "i ded hit buttons" behavior. That's a tad bit worrisome because it reduces the round to when the admin in question dies, decides they're bored, and event's the round into oblivion. Its less of answering your own ahelp and more of starting and passing your own restart votes.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to see a bright line policy on this. Occasionally admins do intervene to bring the round to an end and sometimes those are rounds they participated in due to lack of other administration, actual round stagnation, etc. Context should rule in each case. Like others, I don't see the correlation between "wizmeme fucked everything up" and "hit meteors to end it" but at the same time I can't say that meteor events are really a targeted retaliation for him being killed by the wizard unless the purpose was to end the round because he was killed.

[Stickymayhem]

I know it's hard not to unintentionally but in a pretty wide-reaching discussion like this please don't mix and match what I said to misrepresent it.

At no point did I say meteors are to spice a round up. The meteors were very much meant to be round ending, encourage a shuttle call (and encourage the wizard not to recall spam) after everyone was dead.

There was an IC centcom report, a few minutes allowing for anyone to message centcom or even use the radio. I gauged opinion in deadchat and the radio, messaged again with a "Last chance before we do this" kind of thing, then hit meteors twice (not three times).

And the most important thing, as always in my opinion, no one was particularly pissed off about it, excluding Saegrimr who again, had no contact with anything I did. He is pissed on behalf of a de facto ruleset that doesn't exist or disgruntled players who did not mention their irritation or don't exist.

[Saegrimr]

No i'm annoyed because it looks exactly like an "i died lets """subtly""" try to fuck over the antag that got me" or you just got bored and want to respawn next round and try again. Not something i'd like to know admins do while still an active part of the round they got taken out of. You passing it off as technically not being killed by the wizard because you just stayed dismembered in the surgery room to aghost around instead doesn't really make it any better.

The wizard was even telling people he was done with his objective and to just call the shuttle because he'll kill anybody that gets in his way.

[Stickymayhem]

It is common for admins to stay admined while in game, and push buttons while in game. I once pushed the create random traitors button while mopping as a janitor because the 10 minute round start report sent to all admins had indicated that 2 of the antags had dc'ed or gone afk.

How ever most rounds have multiple antags, wiz has just one. this creates a situation where actions applied to the round are basically actions applied to the wizard because they are one in the same.

The separation between the antag as a group and a individual antag is basically nonexistent, so something like this can seem (and even be) more personal.

I think actively fighting the antag, getting your limbs removed by the antag, and then readmimning and blowing up the round is different than an admin just mopping and adding some new traitors when all the old ones died

First one feels closer to answering your own ahelps, latter is regular adminning except you are also clicking on blood decals

I don't think we'd lose much by just requiring admins to stay hands off any round they play in at all though if people are having trouble telling the difference. It looks terrible to players.

I think the worst thing about this is people like EagleWiz have an easy strawman to make out of it and if that's enough to warrant a hard rule I'm not going to have an issue with it.

Also I didn't fight the wizard. I was in surgery to get limbs reattached after the captain cut them off (very reasonably), and the wizard blew up my doctor, and knocked off one more limb. After trying to save the doc and failing I aghosted instead of ghosted. He deliberately let me live if I recall correctly.

This feels very much like one of those issues, where a freedom exists that is generally used respectfully, but is abusable, and just like in the game rules, I think striking off those freedoms for the sake of edge-cases and vocal idiots who will always complain about something is a shame. At the same time, rule 0 style case-by-case handling of shit like this doesn't need to not exist. There's no logical reason why a dead admin is different from one that observed from roundstart. Our admins should never be bad enough that this is a conflict and I believe now more than ever, that the team is as clear of this as possible.

[Saegrimr]

That's why this is an admin complaint and not a policy thread, because I don't think you're using it "respectfully".

[Stickymayhem]

No i'm annoyed because it looks exactly like an "i died lets """subtly""" try to fuck over the antag that got me" or you just got bored and want to respawn next round and try again. Not something i'd like to know admins do while still an active part of the round they got taken out of.

The wizard was even telling people he was done with his objective and to just call the shuttle because he'll kill anybody that gets in his way.

Yeah meteors are real fucking subtle you got me.

I don't really have an answer because you're basically just attacking my character at this point by suggesting I would do shit like that after being here so long. I really don't give a shit about your personal opinions of me. They're completely unfounded and you can believe what you want if it makes you the kind of angry you want to be.

You passing it off as technically not being killed by the wizard because you just stayed dismembered in the surgery room to aghost around instead doesn't really make it any better.

This point has no point. You said I died, I didn't, you said I effectively died because I was trapped, I wasn't. Then you say I'm made at the antag when I'm not, they literally left me alive on purpose, so there's basically no possibility of a grudge.

I really don't get where YOUR grudge is coming from, but you're trying your hardest to make this look as bad as possible. I'm not sure why.

That's why this is an admin complaint and not a policy thread, because I don't think you're using it "respectfully".

I like playing SS13. I like buttons and events. The two do not influence each other. I'll happily take an antag ban for a month if anyone things I'm just trying to end rounds to reroll or some crap like that. I gauged opinion, figured that a round-ending catastrophe would be appreciated by the majority as a way to sign off a pretty brutal murderbone and that's that.

[BeeSting12]

I think actively fighting the antag, getting your limbs removed by the antag, and then readmimning and blowing up the round is different than an admin just mopping and adding some new traitors when all the old ones died

First one feels closer to answering your own ahelps, latter is regular adminning except you are also clicking on blood decals

I don't think we'd lose much by just requiring admins to stay hands off any round they play in at all though if people are having trouble telling the difference. It looks terrible to players.

Didn't read anything after Kor's post. I think his last line would be a policy I can get onboard with, except maybe editted to half an hour after you die. Surely our admin team is mature enough not to hold a grudge for half an hour and then act on it.

[Saegrimr]

You said I died, I didn't, you said I effectively died because I was trapped, I wasn't.

You're the one who put the technicality on me in the ahelp, with

Admin PM from- Stickymayhem : Again, I was alive until a meteor hit me mate
Admin PM from- Stickymayhem : So if that's the basis of your complaint it's not even relevant

Whether you died in that surgery room or you lived with 8 HP before just aghosting there anyway the end result is the same, you were out of the round. You hit meteors to fuck with the wizard in a round where you were adminned in-game and in conflict with said wizard (and lost).

I got nothing against you Sticky but I think you need to stop hitting buttons and playing while adminned.

[EagleWiz]

I think the worst thing about this is people like EagleWiz have an easy strawman to make out of it and if that's enough to warrant a hard rule I'm not going to have an issue with it.

I'm not trying to force adims to deadmin when they are playing, I just don't think round ending (like meteors or swarmers) or targeted events (like sending an ERT to stop a murderboner) are appropriate if you are directly participating in that round.

[Stickymayhem]

You said I died, I didn't, you said I effectively died because I was trapped, I wasn't.

You're the one who put the technicality on me in the ahelp, with

Admin PM from- Stickymayhem : Again, I was alive until a meteor hit me mate
Admin PM from- Stickymayhem : So if that's the basis of your complaint it's not even relevant

Whether you died in that surgery room or you lived with 8 HP before just aghosting there anyway the end result is the same, you were out of the round. You hit meteors to fuck with the wizard in a round where you were adminned in-game and in conflict with said wizard (and lost).

I got nothing against you Sticky but I think you need to stop hitting buttons and playing while adminned.

I'm literally trying to figure out what the point of this complaint from your perspective is.

I think you need to stop hitting buttons and playing while adminned.

If this is the goal, then I disagree. I can handle it, this round is no exception. My adminning isn't and wasn't influenced in the slightest by this.

Even just by probability, if the issue is everyone is dead, and I'm one of everyone, then I'm likely to also be dead (And I wasn't even), so don't understand that as a complaint. If an admin is so emotional that somehow they are able to begrudge a wizard who left them totally alive and able to continue in the round if they wanted and then use that anger to justify meteors to kill that fucking wizard ( how dare he fireball me once I'll show him), then they shouldn't be an admin. If you believe that's the case here, you clearly think I'm an emotional idiot. I don't pretend not to be an idiot, so maybe that's my fault, but it's pretty ridiculous.

[Saegrimr]

If an admin is so emotional that somehow they are able to begrudge a wizard who left them totally alive and able to continue in the round if they wanted and then use that anger to justify meteors to kill that fucking wizard ( how dare he fireball me once I'll show him), then they shouldn't be an admin. If you believe that's the case here, you clearly think I'm an emotional idiot. I don't pretend not to be an idiot, so maybe that's my fault, but it's pretty ridiculous.

I don't get how you're going to try and pin me for "attacking your character" then fire this one off at me.

I think you need to stop hitting buttons and playing while adminned.

If this is the goal, then I disagree. I can handle it, this round is no exception.

Okay you might think so, but others don't seem to agree this was a good way to handle it.

[SpaceInaba]

I think the point isn't the "event" its the "event" happening directly after getting a limb blown off by a wizard who just killed the guy who was going to reattach your limbs.

[Stickymayhem]

If an admin is so emotional that somehow they are able to begrudge a wizard who left them totally alive and able to continue in the round if they wanted and then use that anger to justify meteors to kill that fucking wizard ( how dare he fireball me once I'll show him), then they shouldn't be an admin. If you believe that's the case here, you clearly think I'm an emotional idiot. I don't pretend not to be an idiot, so maybe that's my fault, but it's pretty ridiculous.

I don't get how you're going to try and pin me for "attacking your character" then fire this one off at me.

I think you need to stop hitting buttons and playing while adminned.

If this is the goal, then I disagree. I can handle it, this round is no exception.

Okay you might think so, but others don't seem to agree this was a good way to handle it.

I don't get how you're going to try and pin me for "attacking your character" then fire this one off at me.

I really don't get what you mean by this. I'm saying that your assumption about why I did what I did (I hit meteors because I wanted to fuck up an antag that messed with me) suggests I'm so infantile and stupid that it is effectively an attack on my character.

Okay you might think so, but others don't seem to agree this was a good way to handle it.

I responded to the specific meteor complaint and haven't heard an argument back yet. At this point it's a disagreement and someone can change my mind or a headmin can make a ruling on it. But that's not why you made this thread.

[Stickymayhem]

I think the point isn't the "event" its the "event" happening directly after getting a limb blown off by a wizard who just killed the guy who was going to reattach your limbs.

If by directly you mean like 15-20 minutes later then sure why not. If it was directly afterwards then I can see why people would reasonably assume it's emotional, but the trigger for the meteors was clearly not my death, but a wizard basically fucking about with no counterplay whatsoever.

There were two reports, no one said they didn't want it, deadchat was done with the round, even the wizard had nothing left to do, so I hit meteors.

None of this screams emotional response to me. I'm sick of saying this at this point.

[Saegrimr]

I really don't get what you mean by this. I'm saying that your assumption about why I did what I did (I hit meteors because I wanted to fuck up an antag that messed with me) suggests I'm so infantile and stupid that it is effectively an attack on my character.

This is one the major things that always came up when dealing with shitters in ahelp while I was adminning. "lol I bet ur the one I killed so ur mad"
Things like this only serve to give them ammo.

At this point it's a disagreement and someone can change my mind or a headmin can make a ruling on it. But that's not why you made this thread.

That's exactly why I made this thread, you don't see this as doing anything wrong and I do, and now i'd appreciate if you stop attacking my character.

[Stickymayhem]

At this point it's a disagreement and someone can change my mind or a headmin can make a ruling on it. But that's not why you made this thread.

That's exactly why I made this thread, you don't see this as doing anything wrong and I do, and now i'd appreciate if you stop attacking my character.

God I'm so fucking bored by you taking everything I say as bad as possible I barely have the effort for this thread anymore. I don't want or need a legal degree for a fucking conversation.

I wasn't attacking your character. Anyone with basic reading comprehension can see from context I was referring to the discussion specifically about meteors being a bad option to use. Which is not what your complaint was about. Your complaint specifically suggests:

"i died lets """subtly""" try to fuck over the antag that got me" or you just got bored and want to respawn next round and try again.

I genuinely can't be fucked with you anymore you're exhausting to talk to.

EDIT: And it's not because you've got valid arguments, it's because I have to reiterate everything constantly so you won't strawman me or take offence. I didn't attack your character you're just too obnoxious to have any discussion with apparently.

[Saegrimr]

Alright i'll sink down to this level then since you wanted it.
So tell me why I made this thread, put more words into my mouth then flip the table and run when it gets "exhausting".
Don't shittalk me and avoid the point then claim i'm attacking you on a personal level.

Good talk Sticky. Definitely should wait on headmins to figure this one out with the logs.

[Stickymayhem]

So tell me why I made this thread, put more words into my mouth then flip the table and run when it gets "exhausting".

I wasn't attacking your character. Anyone with basic reading comprehension can see from context I was referring to the discussion specifically about meteors being a bad option to use. Which is not what your complaint was about. Your complaint specifically suggests:

"i died lets """subtly""" try to fuck over the antag that got me" or you just got bored and want to respawn next round and try again.

Your complaint specifically suggests: "i died lets """subtly""" try to fuck over the antag that got me" or you just got bored and want to respawn next round and try again.

[MrStonedOne]

This derailed quickly.

All relevant info has been posted. I'm gonna lock this in 15 minutes

[Limski]

I would like to point out that regardless of the justifications behind it, triggering a round ending event after dying to an antag in order to hinder said antag will always seem like an incredibly cheap thing to do to the average player, no matter how long it happened after the death.

[MrStonedOne]

I have left this unlocked because goofball is going to come in here and make an ass out of himself.

[iamgoofball]

I have left this unlocked because goofball is going to come in here and make an ass out of himself.

yes, yes I am

[11:53:41]EMOTE: @Stickymayhem[DC]/(Jack Steiner) : <b>Jack Steiner</b> gasps! (76,100,2)
[11:53:41]EMOTE: @Stickymayhem[DC]/(Jack Steiner) : <b>Jack Steiner</b> seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (76,100,2)

this is where he died, if Parsed Logs were working I could stitch this together with the damage logs for us to get an accurate read on what killed him
but about 20 minutes before that:

[11:39:46]ADMIN: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) checked antagonists.
[11:39:49]SAY: Renmar the Fickle (as Trevor Haynes)/Kel the Oblivious : I will kill anyone I see. I suggest you flee. My work here is done, all that remains is for you to know flight is better than fight. (80,170,2)
[11:39:49]SAY: Ne'er-do-well/Heboric : yiss (69,152,2)
[11:39:50]EMOTE: *no key*/(Poly) : <b>Poly</b> bawks! (156,141,2)
[11:39:52]EMOTE: *no key*/(mouse) : <b>The mouse</b> shakes. (142,147,2)
[11:39:55]ACCESS: Mob Login: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
[11:39:55]EMOTE: *no key*/(monkey (944)) : <b>The monkey (944)</b> rolls. (67,85,2)
[11:39:57]ADMIN: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) admin ghosted.
[11:39:57]ACCESS: Mob Login: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
[11:40:01]SAY: Hugs-Everyone/Samul : s~ (68,151,2)
[11:40:02]EMOTE: *no key*/(Pugley IV) : <b>Pugley IV</b> shakes its head. (134,104,2)
[11:40:03]EMOTE: *no key*/(grey baby slime (811)) : <b>The grey baby slime (811)</b> lights up for a bit, then stops. (127,56,2)
[11:40:04]ADMIN: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) has sent Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) back to the Lobby.

>checked antags while alive, ragequit over it being wizard and sent yourself back to the lobby for some unknown reason

[11:56:06]ADMIN: Stickymayhem/(Patrick Tireman) has created a command report: Feel free to contact us. We can overload the gravity generator and pull in every asteroid within 3 parsecs.

we need asay logs and PM logs to confirm the check antags purpose

this is Fishy As Hell and without all the asay logs or PM logs, seems like he metagamed the roundtype with his admin tools to ragequit over wizard, then spam meteors when the wizard played the game in a way he didn't like

[Stickymayhem]

Here's what those logs actually mean
>Wizard is openly and loudly killing everyone
>"I wonder who the wizard is"
>"Check antags for wizard ckey
>"Oh it's Kel he's robust this should be a fun to watch"
>Possibly clicked (FLW) from check antag panel
>"Oh wait I wanted to make that new clown"
>Send back to Lobby to access character creator
>Observe back in to watch the round for another 16 minutes (As Patrick Tireman, the randomized backup name from my new clown character "Garbo the Trash Clown" )
>Eh wizard is robust, most people are dead, I'll send a report offering meteors
>Didn't realize everyone is so dead no one can contact
>Send another report something like "last chance, we're not hearing any no's"
>Hit meteors twice
>Round ends soon after

So obviously if a wizard exploded me and no admins but me are online, I know what the round type is. I'm not stupid.

When you're on the server alone you poke around. I jump around observing a lot. It's not shady. I could take almost any set of admin logs and make a case that they're shady.

>checked antags while alive, ragequit over it being wizard and sent yourself back to the lobby for some unknown reason

Literally the whole station knew who the antag was before I checked antag.

>Ragequit

lolwut

[iamgoofball]

If oranges did that exact maneuver he'd be deadminned by the hour

You're abusing your buddy buddy rep. Knock it off.

[iamgoofball]

Additionally past precedent was set with the Judicator case files and the HBL trial set that spamming events at random regardless of open complaints being present is deadminnable.

[iamgoofball]

You could of been deaf + blind and not able to know its wizard. "Everyone" didn't know.