krusvik - YakumoChen - Doesn't Understand Escalation

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Yakumo_Chen
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:08 pm
Byond Username: Yakumo Chen

krusvik - YakumoChen - Doesn't Understand Escalation

Post by Yakumo_Chen » #394099

Byond account and character name: YakumoChen, Marisa Kirisame
Admin: krusvik
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: Bagil, around 9 AM server time, on the 24th (yesterday as of this post)
ROUND ID HERE:
Detailed summary
-Clock cult round. Cult was discovered early, all their members were decon'd or dead within a few minutes of discovery. Cult had failed in total to convert any of the crew.
-I was the Head of Security. Not knowing I had unwittingly already eradicated the entire cult, and hating cult with a fucking passion, I decided to make use of my Code Red rights to randomly search people. I decided to start with science (top priority cult target, and RD was doing toxins) as well as assistants (because typical cultists use assistant IDs).
-On my way to science, I see an assistant run by. I'd seen them running around the halls all shift and I knew they had a troublesome reputation, so I decided to divert my attention to getting them first. In a typical "It's a conversion round, better implant everyone" security mentality, I wordlessly began to start disabling them, as I had done with every other cultist I had arrested this shift.
-The assistant retaliates by whipping out a flamethrower and trying to set me on fire while running away. Being such a gross overreaction to an arrest, I take this to be a confirmation of ill intentions, and also being set on fire really grinds my gears. I tase and lase them, and drag them back to security because fuck I ain't cloning that.
-They didn't have a clock slab, so I (correctly) assume they are non-antag because clock cults need the slab to do basically anything at all. Their bag is instead full of flamethrower tools.

-I ahelp this because I don't think setting security on fire and filling the halls with hot plasma is anywhere near acceptable retaliation or escalation for what is obviously security trying to root out the cult
-krusvik answers and basically spends the rest of the shift giving me extremely cheap excuses as to why this should be valid.
-Apparently wordlessly arresting people (on a confirmed cult round) is totally grounds to valid security, according to krusvik.
-Being that this is an imperfect game with imperfect information, krusvik offered that I could have been not mere security, but in fact I could be a cultist in disguise. I had passed by this player at least once arresting actual cultists and had been dragging people to brig all shift. Furthermore I was very obviously dressed as the HoS and had no mask or other identity concealment worn. Also, implant removal tends to basically never happen on clock cult.
-They had apparently been stealing plasma from engineering or wherever and making flamethrowers, making them perfectly valid themselves to arrest in the first place. While I hadn't known this at the time (and I never thought to make the point), this doesn't give them full rights to defend themselves after doing obviously antagonistic actions
-Wordlessly arresting someone makes security valid, even though it was a) obviously a cult round, b) code red (random search is authorized), c), they had already committed a crime which I very well could have potentially known beforehand. I argued that trying to talk to people before arresting them usually gets you killed by antags (who will resist and possibly kill you regardless) and was basically ignored.

While I hadn't been killed by being set on fire, I would definitely have thought that could have warranted the admin talking to the player or perhaps even noted them for improper escalation or banbaiting of some degree (I did immediately execute them, since they had set me on fire) but krusvik showed no willingness or sign that he was going to follow up and continued to argue with me about how potentially murdering security for merely doing their jobs is totally valid no matter what

Admins pulling this shit continues to lower my faith that I can play security without having to deal with high stress situations and constant greytide knowing admins would rather side with the tide then come to the aid of the poor security player just trying to do his job. Knowing that I can be valided just for a simple arrest of someone who had already knowingly committed a crime doesn't really give me good faith that I can continue to eke any fun out of a role that is already extremely stressful for little to no real payoff.
Poorman
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Re: krusvik - YakumoChen - Doesn't Understand Escalation

Post by Poorman » #394165

Are you still mad about this? Jesus christ, get over it.

I was the assistant that round. It was supposedly cult but I hadn't seen any evidence of it. Regardless, I made a flamethrower because cultists generally like to gang up on people and it's an ok anti crowd weapon, not all that effective in a one on one situation. I was walking down the hall when Marisa comes up and starts wordlessly firing off disabler shots at me because they're a powergamey shithead who couldn't be bothered to at least ask me for a random search, which I would have consented to and tried to explain that I was using the flamethrower to defend myself against a potential cult. So, because I want to keep playing in the round, I don't take that and I fight back, lighting her on fire and trying to get away before I'm cucked by some fire doors and she puts me down, before switching to lethals while I'm disabled and hiding my body for the rest of the round. Honestly, I like how Yakumo thinks that just because it was supposedly a cult that means I'm not at all allowed to defend myself against a HoS just randomly attacking me, like just because she's a religious HoS player that means she can just dick over people in annoying and obnoxious, blatently powergamey ways and just because they're the HoS we have to take it. That's such a stupidly metagamey way to think: I know the roundtype therefore the HoS couldn't POSSIBLY be an antagonist and has every excuse to go around shooting people wordlessly like an asshole, and oh man if you try to defend yourself from what could be a changeling, a mindswapped wizard, an admin spawned event antag, a cloned and culted HoS, that only means you're valid. What ANNOYS me is that if I had tried to put you down with the flamethrower, I'd have gotten adminhelped easily, so I didn't. I fired off at you once and tried to run away because the flamethrower was the only weapon I had on hand, not made for a shitter powergaming HoS but for a clock cult.

Here's one of their CHOICE quotes after they started sperging out in the TG discord over this whole thing:

Image

See, what she meant by "Known shitter assistant" was "GOLLY GEE I'M GONNA JUSTIFY WORDLESSLY ATTACKING SOMEONE BASED OFF OF PREVIOUS ROUND METAGAME INFO"

I didn't even ask Krusvik to ban her. I specifically said that she was gonna pull this shit again, and either she was gonna stop playing HoS, or get a full ban. Honestly I thought it was funny at first how upset they got over this, but now it's just sad and obsessive.

Leave Krusvik alone, he's not at fault for you being a shitty powergamer who can't put two and two together, and I'm sorry that I had the fucking AUDACITY to defend myself from someone just randomly firing at me.

Also

Admins pulling this shit continues to lower my faith that I can play security without having to deal with high stress situations and constant greytide knowing admins would rather side with the tide then come to the aid of the poor security player just trying to do his job. Knowing that I can be valided just for a simple arrest of someone who had already knowingly committed a crime doesn't really give me good faith that I can continue to eke any fun out of a role that is already extremely stressful for little to no real payoff.
Boo fucking hoo, you picked arguably the most difficult and stressful job on the station, and you can't take the heat? Then don't play HoS, and don't play Sec. Most certainly don't complain when people don't want to hear you whine about how burdened you are, you poor little tortured soul.

Holy fuck.

This shit was two days ago and you didn't get banned over it. If you're this obsessive and get salty at not even getting fucked over (I was the dead and out of the round one, you got to play it the whole way through) this badly, I don't think you should be playing this game. You DEFINITELY shouldn't be playing HoS nearly every fucking round.
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Cobby
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Re: krusvik - YakumoChen - Doesn't Understand Escalation

Post by Cobby » #394170

I really dislike the idea of saying people can't fight back if someone in red randomly tries to detain them because of a gamemode.

It being cult should not be considered part of the "if security tries to arrest you for a crime then you can't escalate against them".

Obvious whataboutism but what would happen if he got caught by you? He'd be searched, seen he has a bunch of flamethrower tools, and tossed in perma/gulag for the rest of the round because 0 tolerance for "greytiders" and not much would happen because haha sec can be shit during cult >:)
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Armhulen
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Re: krusvik - YakumoChen - Doesn't Understand Escalation

Post by Armhulen » #394175

this is not a valid complaint. this is feedback.
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