[Saegrimr] Daybanning a victim

[Blackiwhat]

Byond account and character name: Blackiwhat, Alec Glascock
Admin: Saegrimr
Time incident occured: A week ago, something like that.
Detailed summary: Upon being promoted to Security Officer by the HOP to keep a watch on the other guy that got promoted, whose name I don't recall and will will be referred to as Changeling, I walked into brig to see Changeling with a fucking armblade out talking to the HOS, shouting that I'm a changeling. The HOS fucking believes him and I get stripped naked and bucklecuffed to a chair, where I sat for the next 40+ minutes while the HOS was being a massive shit yelling again and again to his officers "I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!". During this period of time, an officer who I'll call Shitler, demands that both Changeling and I get executed, or that we fight to the death and the winner gets forceborged. Neither of these ever happen, though I did get locked in the interrogation room with Changeling right before I quit - it was about to happen at that moment.
Eventually, I quit due to network issues and sheer rage. I come back some five minutes later, shoved in a locker with all my stuff in it. Supposedly there's a note in there, according to Saegrimr, saying "Sorry, he was a changeling!" as if that fact couldn't be any less fucking obvious to these asinine fucking retards. The HOS is braindead in the armory - neither banned nor jobbanned, by the way - and I'm on a mission of fucking revenge. Taking the all-access ID of Changeling, which I found on the ground, I snatched a gun from the armory and hunted down Shitler, lasering him to death in front of his fellow officers, in RD. I snatch the body and fail at spacing it, but leave it outside the airlock anyway.
Suddenly, I'm bwoinked by Saegrimr! Explaining my actions to him, I decide to forceborg Shitler instead (as he was demanding the HOS do to me), and Saegrimr adminkills me. I wasn't gibbed, so after a period of being yelled at by the enraged Shitler and taunted about how his friend Saegrimr is going to ban me, I get cloned (first in a long line of bodies) and am instantly banned for a day by Saegrimr. After taking it to #banbus, Saegrimr explained the story (the exact story you see here) and reluctantly jobbanned the HOS upon being ordered to do so by Elyina, and neither my ban nor the note I received were ever lifted.
So, instead of banning an HOS that bucklecuffed me to a chair because a changeling with an armblade out told him I'm a changeling and went braindead upon things getting stressful, Saegrimr daybanned me because I killed an officer that tried getting the HOS to execute and forceborg me and continually instigated the whole situation. I was even about to borg Shitler, but no, Saegrimr just can't handle his banhammer. Only after being ordered to do so did Saegrimr jobban the HOS responsible.
This was my first round that day, and I planned to have a marathon of SS13 because I was off of work.

[elyina]

We already discussed this as a length in #banbus. You took your aggression out on the completely wrong person. The HoS was the one being shit, a sec officer who made a stupid comment while having nothing to do with the situation itself doesn't deserve that.

[Blackiwhat]

We already discussed this as a length in #banbus. You took your aggression out on the completely wrong person. The HoS was the one being shit, a sec officer who made a stupid comment while having nothing to do with the situation itself doesn't deserve that.

So why did Saegrimr never ban the HOS despite him going braindead in the middle of a round (plus this) and only jobbanning him after I complained about it in #banbus? Along with that, Shitler didn't make just one stupid comment, he watched everything go down and said again and again variants of "Why don't you execute them? Borg them? Fuck it, LET'S MAKE THEM FIGHT TO THE DEATH!"
I'm sorry if my character was pissed off after being bucklecuffed to a chair for 40+ minutes while Security taunted him and told the HOS to execute him, all because a changeling with a fucking armblade out told them I was an antag - which I wasn't, by the way, and this was 5 minutes into the round. I hadn't even visited the brig up until then.

[Saegrimr]

You literally just laid out why you got a dayban for what happened.

You killed a person simply because he wanted to see a fight, you didn't take it out on the HoS, you didn't take it out on the changeling. You took it out on a third party who was being kind of a vocal asshole.
You then hid the body untill I PMed you about it, then dragged him to get force borged.

I handled the HoS separately. Your punishment has nothing to do with his.

Just no, Saintish. Just stop. You have a history of ridiculous escalation as it is.

[Blackiwhat]

You literally just laid out why you got a dayban for what happened.
I handled the HoS separately. Your punishment has nothing to do with his.

You let him leave mid-round while you were questioning him and the only punishment was a jobban after Elyina fucking ordered you to. You admitted to all of this in #banbus. He's obviously your buttbuddy or something.

Again, EXCUUUUSE MEEE if I killed the guy that tried to get the HOS to fucking kill me, again and again. Oh, yeah, he wanted to see a fucking fight, yeah? He wanted to see action? You know what greytiders wanna see? Action. You know what badmins wanna see when they blow up the bridge out of nowhere? Action. And when Sec Officers wanna see action, they try to get people killed and keep confirmed changelings alive. Killbaiting. The second I killed him, he adminhelped, and then spent the time I was dead taunting me.

[Saegrimr]

I don't think you remember correctly what happened, which isn't surprising since you were accusing me earlier of banning you for spamming WGW when it was someone else.

Here let me post the IRC logs which I amazingly still have available.

Spoiler:

<Blackiwhat> Saegrimr
<Saegrimr> Hi Saintish
<Blackiwhat> i really don't think you get just how fucking shitty this guy was being
<Saegrimr> I watched the entire shitfest play out.
<Saegrimr> Him being an annoying prick doesn't give you the right to kill him and hide the body.
<Blackiwhat> HE came up with the idea that hey, we should both be fucking killed and then borged
<Blackiwhat> since when
<Blackiwhat> killing Ian is being an annoying prick
<Blackiwhat> hiding the body is allowed
<Saegrimr> I am honestly not arguing this with you
<Blackiwhat> there's a bit of a precedent for this
<Blackiwhat> Why was this worthy of a day ban?
<Blackiwhat> I killed someone who tried to get me killed?
<Blackiwhat> And then offered to borg him, since he was planning to borg me?
<Saegrimr> Only after I bwoinked you asking why you're hiding the body
* [Rock] (~Rockdtben@internet.rockdtben.com) has joined #banbus
* ChanServ gives channel half-operator status to [Rock]
<Saegrimr> So you drag him over to get borged?
<Blackiwhat> Yeah? I'm not going to clone him so he can kill me.
<Saegrimr> You think he wouldn't be right in killing you after that?
<Blackiwhat> So that he can yell that "HURR HE'S A CHANGELING" again
<Blackiwhat> He would.
<Saegrimr> He thought you were a ling before, and you basically gave him all the evidence he needed after that.
<hg|work> what happened?
<Blackiwhat> He would be justified for killing me. I was justified in killing him for believing a ling, WITH AN ARMBLADE OUT, saying that I'm a ling, after me shouting again and again for forty minutes that I'm not while bucklecuffed in a chair.
<Saegrimr> So a ling gets the bright idea to infiltrate security, and his first order of business is to pull out his armblade in front of the HoS to prove himself and then call Saintish out on being a ling as well for some reason.
<elyina> is the bit about the hos working with an armblade ling true
<Blackiwhat> except i wasn't a ling
<Saegrimr> I'm getting to that.
<Blackiwhat> the round literally started 5 minutes prior and i spent the rest of it bucklecuffed in a chair
<Saegrimr> HoS doesn't know what the fuck, so he cuffs both of them and sets them down. Cue screamfest between the two of them "HES A LING" "NO IM NOT"
<Saegrimr> After about 10 minutes of this I ask the HoS what he's doing with a confirmed ling in his office.
<Blackiwhat> like then John Wolfe comes in and gets the bright idea to make us kill each other and then forceborg us
<elyina> there is only 1 correct course of action for the hos in that situation
<Saegrimr> Then he tells me he's gotta log, so I tell him "you're really gonna log after putting those two in that shitty situation?"
<elyina> and that is to laser the armblade guy, incinerate him and disregard everything he said
<Saegrimr> "You're right"
<Saegrimr> SO he lasers the ling, brains him, and by that time Saintish has already gone braindead from what I assumed was intense frustration at the situation.
<Saegrimr> (Which I would agree with)
<Blackiwhat> intense frustration+power was fluctuating
<Blackiwhat> yeah
<Saegrimr> He comes back later in a locker in sec with all his sec gear in the locker and a note saying "yeah other dude was a ling sorry"
<Blackiwhat> i didn't see a note
<Blackiwhat> and even if the note said that
<Blackiwhat> he KNEW he was a ling
<Blackiwhat> the whole fucking time
<Saegrimr> ANYWAY.
<Blackiwhat> in the interrogation room, the ling let out his armblade right in front of him 5 times
<Blackiwhat> in a row
<Saegrimr> During the shitfest between the three of them, there was a sec officer watching the whole time just egging on the fight, he suggested a deathmatch or something to prove if he was a ling or not.
<Saegrimr> Basically just being a rowdy cunt
<Saegrimr> Later on after the whole ordeal I get an ahelp, Saintish has tazed and then lasered that sec officer to death in maint near science, and then dragged the body out the nearby airlock.
<Blackiwhat> you then ahelp me, tell me it's shit, i go to borg him as he was going to borg me for no reason
<Blackiwhat> at least i had a reason
<oranges> it was a pretty crappy reason
<elyina> you took your frustration out on the wrong person
<elyina> you can't kill someone just for saying stupid shit
<Saegrimr> And then I realized I was dealing with Saintish the whole time and I should have ended it sooner.
<elyina> maybe if you fucked up the hos for being a complete retard
<elyina> i'd understand that
<elyina> but that officer was unrelated and just said some stupid shit without actually doing anything
<Blackiwhat> who were the other people? some sec officer who never saw what was going on and just said "why don't you kill them both" because he figured we were both confirmed lings, the braindead HOS, and a pile of ling ashes
<elyina> saeg you probably shouldn't say provocative things like that
<Blackiwhat> i don't really care, yeah, I'm Saintish, I've got a shitty history
<Saegrimr> The point is I thought I was dealing with someone new, and not someone who enacted a policy shitstorm about escalation.
<Blackiwhat> i didn't make this account to get away from my history with the admins, i made it to get a new reputation with other players
<Blackiwhat> not admins
<elyina> well exactly, look at it from the sec officers point of view
<elyina> if the hos thinks someone is a ling i generally trust him
<elyina> in this case the hos was just an idiot
<Blackiwhat> but like, HOS didn't really say anything
<elyina> who should probably not be allowed to play hos
<Blackiwhat> the whole 40 minutes was HOS going "I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO" as the ling flashed his armblade to the other officers and i sat screaming that i'm not a ling
<elyina> again you took your frustration out on the wrong person
<elyina> the hos was pretty much valid to you at that point
<Blackiwhat> it's a shame he was braindead
<Blackiwhat> i did take my anger out on the wrong asshole
<Blackiwhat> maybe a punch in the face would've sufficed for that guy
<Blackiwhat> but he was the only chucklefuck that was left after my short braindead break
<Blackiwhat> i didn't even know if the ling had been killed
<elyina> saegrimr: did that hos get job banned
<Saegrimr> I left a note about him basically ruining a players round for second guessing a ling
<Blackiwhat> like really if the HOS got jobbanned i'll happily take the dayban, i've got a shitty history, maybe i really should know better
<Saegrimr> Well, not so much. It had some standing because both of them were assistants who got promoted into Sec.
<Saegrimr> So the HoS didn't really have a reason to trust either one, but even less so the ling.
<Blackiwhat> but after Saegrimr basically said that he got off scott-free, i kind of took matters of punishment into my own hands
<elyina> but you punished the wrong guy
<Saegrimr> Again, you punished the completely wron gguy
<Saegrimr> If you wanted to space the HoS that'd at least be understandable.
<Blackiwhat> but like, Warden had implanted me and I was only a Sec officer because the HOP wanted me to keep an eye on the ling
<Saegrimr> "Keep an eye on the ling" what
<Blackiwhat> well
<Blackiwhat> he didn't know he was a ling
<Saegrimr> So the HoP promoted a ling he knew about?
<Blackiwhat> but J.R. was kind of an asshole in the line
<Blackiwhat> and he wanted me to shadow him, since he gave J.R. sec access and didn't want it to go unchecked
<Blackiwhat> anyway, i see where the ban is coming from, i still think he was a fucking chucklefuck
<Blackiwhat> but hiding the body wasn't the right course of access
<Blackiwhat> and is pretty shit
<Blackiwhat> action, that is
<elyina> what was the hos' ckey saeg?
<Saegrimr> EmGee
<Blackiwhat> oh my god that guy
<Blackiwhat> anyway, Saeg, feel free to keep the daycation
<Blackiwhat> not my call of course
<oranges> sage
<Blackiwhat> this isn't singulo.io, oranges
<Blackiwhat> does sage even work on there
<hg|work> no
<hg|work> actually it does on the new board
<Blackiwhat> oh cool
<Blackiwhat> really though if that guy gets jobbanned i'll take the daycation
<Blackiwhat> like honestly
<Blackiwhat> so this shit doesn't happen again
<oranges> saeg > sage
<Saegrimr> I'll look into the logs a bit more and decide on him
<Saegrimr> Because watching that whole ordeal from the start was just dumb
<Blackiwhat> anyway feel pretty shitty now that you explained the reasoning behind the ban
<Saegrimr> But you were getting ridiculously hostile (understandably so) which probably made him hesitate on letting you go
<Blackiwhat> did you revive that guy? or was it near round-end
<Blackiwhat> yeah, i like to be moody IC
<Blackiwhat> constant anger
<Blackiwhat> anyway Saegrimr for future reference, no i'm not on an alt and pretending to be new to get on the good side of the admins, i don't hide my history with admins, i'm doing it because i'm so spergy that i want to change my reputation with the rest of the community
<Saegrimr> I didn't revive him
<Saegrimr> Ironically he just nonantag bombed the shit out of escape so now he's got it even worse than you.
<oranges> what a guy
<Blackiwhat> is there any chance you'll remove the note relating to this incident, though? like honestly you understand how pissed off i was, i just wanted to be sec
<Blackiwhat> beautiful/10
<oranges> people are afraid of notes
<oranges> I like them
<oranges> I like to collect notes
<oranges> I'm personally proud of one from sos
<Saegrimr> Well the thing is all your old notes are mirrored.
<Saegrimr> no escape
<Blackiwhat> yeah my notes kind of fucked my goonstation ban appeal over, though Skorvold posted them with the best of intentions and at my request
<Blackiwhat> not my best idea
<Blackiwhat> basically it was to show that i only accidentally IC in OOC, but even though they were all mistakes/barely related stuff (plus OOC is disabled by default on goon), one of the admins the notes to say that I'm incapable of following simple rules
<Blackiwhat> >you will never get your ban on Goon for giving away secrets lifted
<Blackiwhat> so uh should i escort myself out
<Blackiwhat> have we settled this?
<oranges> I'm feeling comfy
<Blackiwhat> oranges how does it feel knowing that a large portion of our community likes furry porn and the other segment likes traps
<oranges> comfy
<Blackiwhat> that's good

The person you got so incredibly pissed off at that you killed even got banned longer than you for a completely unrelated reason.

[Blackiwhat]

Yeah, I know, you told me about how he bombed arrivals as antag the next round. So, you knew at that point he was a fucking griffin, probably banbaited me (he did). You still didn't lift the note nor the daycation.

<Saegrimr> But you were getting ridiculously hostile (understandably so) which probably made him hesitate on letting you go

so yeah thanks for the logs, Saegrimr, you even admit that i was reasonably pissed off. it makes sense to kill Mr. Shitler at that point - all he did that round was to piss me off. All I want is the note removed. I've got a bad enough history, and I don't want a note that makes it seem like I just randomly killed this griffin.

It'd also be fucking fabulous if you could monthban the HOS that believed a changeling with an armblade out, kept me bucklecuffed in a chair for 40 minutes and went braindead mid-round, but considering how long it took you to jobban him, I doubt you'll do that.

[Saegrimr]

You can be as mad as you want, you can be so goddamn mad that you shit blood everywhere and grind your teeth into dust.
Your roleplay does not make you exempt from the rules.

I am not going to jobban that HoS for a month, he was already dealt with.

[Blackiwhat]

You can be as mad as you want, you can be so goddamn mad that you shit blood everywhere and grind your teeth into dust.
Your roleplay does not make you exempt from the rules.

What rule? Rule 1, don't be a dick? Yeah, because he wasn't being a dick by trying to get the HoS to execute me because a changeling with an armblade out said I was an antag.

I am not going to jobban that HoS for a month, he was already dealt with.

I meant a server ban - what do you mean, you're not going to jobban him? Are you saying that he's not even jobbanned? He bucklecuffed an innocent man in a chair for 40+ minutes for little-to-no reason and went braindead mid-round.

[Blackiwhat]

As someone on singulo.io put it:

Losing an argument?
Realizing your ban was faulty but you're too stubborn to lift it?
Use the Saegrimr way of arguing. Just stop posting!

What did the guy I killed expect to happen when he started chanting the equivalent of "execute execute execute" to someone based solely on the word of an antagonist?

[Saegrimr]

I'm not going to ban the guy for a month because you're assblasted over one round, however I fully expect you to shitpost about it for an entire month. This is just things i've come to expect when any admin decision is done involving you.

[Blackiwhat]

I'm not going to ban the guy for a month because you're assblasted over one round, however I fully expect you to shitpost about it for an entire month. This is just things i've come to expect when any admin decision is done involving you.

oh no, i've changed my mind. The HOS had the decency to apologize on singulo.io and admitted to being drunk off his ass, i just want you to be reprimanded because you're evidently unable to handle your banhammer

"hurr let's ignore every prior case of escalation and call this one bannable" is your only argument here, with the few reasons you gave for it being bannable were refuted by me

Inb4 begins with the "stop rules lawyering" shtick

[elyina]

He's not going to be reprimanded. Why would he be? The ban was perfectly valid, it was not "ban happy" of him in any fashion. I'm sorry if you think otherwise, but I haven't seen a single disagreement from another admin. I'm going to close this, if HBL wants to unlock it to step in he has that ability.