[Nabski] - Spending less than a minute on ahelp, focused on banning Sec-Players

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PurpleWitch
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[Nabski] - Spending less than a minute on ahelp, focused on banning Sec-Players

Post by PurpleWitch » #461271

Byond account and character name: SpookyPurpleCat - Len Hollow
Admin: Nabski
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: 12:20 PM - 12:40 PM JST
ROUND ID HERE: 98418
Detailed summary:

Basically what happened is that the station was sort of falling apart, blah blah. I made a few borgs alongside another Roboticist, who then suicided. I gave these borgs upgrades later, mentioned to one particular borg while a Chaos Magicarp was in the room that they should pick their final upgrades, that I was gonna get Syndi'borg'd soon. They knew this, and I gave them the upgrades. Time goes on. Later, they come into the nanite chamber. The chaos carp is on the other side, and me on the other, and they watch as I get pelted with different types of spells and bolts and polymorph, they SEE this happen. I eventually get teleported away cause of a teleportation spell shot or whatever, and they look to retrieve my body. They were given the name, "Len Hollow.", this was said to look for them. They find my body, and the Chaos Carp eventually takes me into space and fires a few more shots and wa-la I'm now a Syndiborg. Once I'm a Syndiborg, I go onto the station and then immediately start medi-beaming the first hurt person I see. A borg eventually flashes me and tries to kill me and then realizes I'm Len but a Syndiborg, and leaves me after repairing me to full health and we go our ways. I heal more people, and then I go to the emergency shuttle once it arrives. I start healing this one person, on my screen it said he was dying to a sickness (everyone else is was sick too) and this borg flashes me and tries to kill me with a crowbar, fails. They later drag me to the bag of the emergency shuttle, and someone welder bombs, 4-5 people are set on fire or knocked unconscious. Instead of the borg saving those people with an extinguisher or taking them to medical, by ignore those people and continue to kill me. They were the Janiborg named "M.O.T.H. UNIT", and they left me at barely minimal health and left me on the station as everyone evacuated. I was a non-antagonist crew member at the time healing people with medibeams while the Janiborg went out of their way to kill me and broke multiple of their laws.

When I ahelped, with Nabski being the only admin on, I don't get a response for a while, after a while I send another ahelp, and I get "marked as IC issue." They did not bother to even review or go back into the logs for the situation, rather marking it as "ic issue" because at the moment he's too busy security-role banning people who don't fill out paperwork for their arrests in Security on this round. This will be posted as soon as the round is completed.

I ran this through grammarly so there shouldn't be mistakes hopefully, sometimes my English does a heart-no-pump.

edit 1: Also during the event he also said that he would "hand out security role bans for those who didn't fill out paperwork for their arrests.", because of a situation from a prior round. Everyone is also complaining about that too.
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Nabski
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Re: [Nabski] - Spending less than a minute on ahelp, focused on banning Sec-Players

Post by Nabski » #461283

https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/basil/ ... 8/game.log

You are right, I did not give your ticket very much attention. When it originally came in I was investigating who had flooded the main hallway with N2O. It went as follows.
[2018-12-11 02:56:42.112] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #10: SpookyPurpleCat/(Len Hollow): This borg is, quite literally killing me for no reason
[2018-12-11 02:58:34.267] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Nabski/(Gene Ball)->SpookyPurpleCat/(Len Hollow): which one?
[2018-12-11 02:58:41.986] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: SpookyPurpleCat/(Len Hollow)->Nabski/(Gene Ball): nvm, was an accident after he realized.

During this time someone else has ahelped about being killed FNR by someone using TK.
I've figured out who flooded.

You re-open the ticket.

[2018-12-11 03:00:21.913] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #12: SpookyPurpleCat/(Len Hollow): MOTH UNIt is once again killing me
I say nothing, because I'm now handling talking to the person who flooded and applying the appropriate punishment.
I figure out who was the killer with TK, since they didn't give a name in their ticket.
I made a centcomm announcement saying that you had failed inspection (because security was murdering a bunch of people and the hallways were flooded with gas ect ect ect).
I bwoink the killer.
I go look at your body and see that you're a syndicate borg.

The round ends.

I make some announcements about an event, you bwoink again so I go open up the raw logs linked above, see that you've had yourself turned into a syndicate borg and died. I mark it IC issue because you had yourself turned into what is by default an antagonist and then ahelped when you died. In addition to this you had a bunch of stupid lines like "I've reported you to centcomm and they're not going to be happy". I'm also looking at what happened with the other I died FNR ahelp, and decided to follow up on that ahelp with both involved parties.

If you don't wanna get killed, don't run around as something that's an antagonist.
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PurpleWitch
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Re: [Nabski] - Spending less than a minute on ahelp, focused on banning Sec-Players

Post by PurpleWitch » #461286

So, it was okay for the Janiborg to go out of their way to kill me on the escape shuttle than help those affected by the welder bomb and the person I was healing? I was clearly healing people, and no one except one borg had a problem with it, then realized their error, then the janiborg came along. They broke their laws on a great multitude, yet- no action was done against them.
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Nabski
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Re: [Nabski] - Spending less than a minute on ahelp, focused on banning Sec-Players

Post by Nabski » #461288

Please tell me how you think they broke their laws.
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PurpleWitch
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Re: [Nabski] - Spending less than a minute on ahelp, focused on banning Sec-Players

Post by PurpleWitch » #461289

Focused on killing me on the emergency shuttle while I was healing a dying person, which they were a janiborg- they had no equipment to help the person on the emergency shuttle, and continued to kill me than tend to those who were affected by the welder bomb that occurred while they were killing me. There were people on fire they could've put out, someone almost in critical when I was able to see for the very few moments while being repeatedly flashed, and they still continued to kill me slowly with a screw driver and dragged me out of the emergency shuttle.

Their sole intent to kill me put others at harm when they could've prevented it, humans, at harm, which was strictly against their 3 set of rules.
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Nabski
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Re: [Nabski] - Spending less than a minute on ahelp, focused on banning Sec-Players

Post by Nabski » #461291

So why did you not put any of that in your first two ahelps, other than that it was killing you?

The information you originally gave me was that they were killing you, which was not breaking their laws and vaguely acceptsble by server rules since you had the form of an antagonist.
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Dax Dupont
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Re: [Nabski] - Spending less than a minute on ahelp, focused on banning Sec-Players

Post by Dax Dupont » #461383

I'm not sure if this is an okay post to make since it involves admin policy technically but:

Please include the full situation in ahelps, especially if you feel it didn't get handled properly. If you see it getting closed and you don't agree, ahelp specifically WHY you don't agree.

If he really ignored dying people, that you were healing and you didn't cause harm at all then he may or may not have been at fault but it's extremely important to list all information.

This sounds like a wizard round or something at least with staffs of transformation which can be extremely hectic for admins to follow and handle all tickets for, so things that look like they have simple resolutions generally don't get time wasted on it.

Logs only show part of the situation but often they are enough to make a judgement and sometimes there's information that's not ascertainable from the logs, incidents like these would also be hard to prove with logs.
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Kingtrin
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Re: [Nabski] - Spending less than a minute on ahelp, focused on banning Sec-Players

Post by Kingtrin » #461417

As a nonantagonist (human or otherwise), instigating conflict with the silicons so you can kill them is a violation of Server Rule 1.
If faced with a situation in which human harm is all but guaranteed (Loose xenos, bombs, hostage situations, etc.), do your best and act in good faith while not violating 2.1.1 and you'll be fine.

Preventing an antagonist, who has not shown signs of being harmful, from healing another person is acting in bad faith is it not? While antagonists are valid (applying this to ALL syndiborgs is dubious as fuck and needs clarity) you are ostensibly supposed to be protecting humans. If your actions mean future harm cannot be avoided, when it would have been avoided, and it was not an order from your AI or a law 2 request, then such an action makes no sense. Preventing a syndiborg from healing someone else because you want an excuse to murder them is hardly compatible with the idea of preventing human harm.

Also not telling someone in detail why its an IC issue is a bit shitty, to say the least. Do you expect players to magically come to the same conclusions that you did?
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Dax Dupont
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Re: [Nabski] - Spending less than a minute on ahelp, focused on banning Sec-Players

Post by Dax Dupont » #461419

You're missing the part where the player did not inform nabski of the whole situation and only went 'they killed me'
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Nabski
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Re: [Nabski] - Spending less than a minute on ahelp, focused on banning Sec-Players

Post by Nabski » #461428

Kingtrin wrote:applying this to ALL syndiborgs is dubious as fuck and needs clarity
I'm only replying to this specific line, because the rest of your post is a slightly more complicated can of worms of silicon and escalation policy.

Polymorphed things such as xenomorphs and syndicate borgs are treated as antagonists by the crew.
If a player is willingly polymorphed into one of these, they are not an antagonist (because you can't self antag).
If a player is unwillingly polymorphed into one of these, they are an antagonist.

As antagonists these roles are dangerous enough (in terms of stuns, flashes, eswords, emags, and acid) that the crew doesn't have to wait to find out if they are friendly or not before attacking them.



TLDR EDIT: I was handling two other tickets at the time and was the only admin online. Your original ahelps did not give me enough information to think there was anything actionable, especially once YOU said "nevermind it was an IC issue" before reopening it a second time. Making yourself into a syndicate borg makes you valid to the crew.
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Arianya
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Re: [Nabski] - Spending less than a minute on ahelp, focused on banning Sec-Players

Post by Arianya » #463100

We're choosing to not uphold this complaint.

Functionally two issues come out of this, one is that admins have to prioritize when they're flying solo and they have multiple tickets on the fly, and the second is that players need to offer us information, no matter how obvious it may seem from their point of view.

Nabski had 3 tickets on the fly, and a low information ticket like "[x] is killing me" tends to rank lower in peripheral vision then N2O flooding, so not dealing with the ticket immediately is understandable. They then looked into your new ticket in the new round, including looking into logs, and couldn't find anything actionable based on the information you gave.

That said, it would have been best for Nabski to provide an explanation of why he felt it was an IC issue, which would have left you room to add additional information, rather then just pressing the IC button, but it's also important for players to give us as much information as they can in the initial ahelp. Admins are not necessarily observing you or even high traffic areas, and something that seems blindingly obvious to you like ""I was helping humans!!" might slip by an admin.

Any other headmin may post.
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