[Imsxz] TheMythicGhost - Improper Judgement Mass Grief while only admin online

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[Imsxz] TheMythicGhost - Improper Judgement Mass Grief while only admin online

Postby TheMythicGhost » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:33 am #485731

Byond account and character name: TheMythicGhost - Respii Varenos
Admin: Imsxz
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: 2019-03-23 around 03:28:28 near end of the round. Bagil.
ROUND ID HERE: 104444
Detailed summary:

During the traitor round, a non-antagonist botanist decided it would be funny to make cabbage that turned people into slimes under the guise that they just slipped. They even gave one to a Honkbot pAI who only believed they slipped due to being told that by the same botanist that made them.

A little bit of time passes, the botanist is forcing these cabbages at players before at some point ending up as a slime himself by his own actions. Now, there are a lot of these grief cabbages in the hall, and everytime someone slips on them, they are converted into a slime moments later. We're not talking slimepeople, because that would be a non-issue really. We're talking the simplemob slimes. The crew decides to kill the slimes, and in turn, some of the slimes decide to kill the crew. All of this stemming from one man who knowingly griefed as a non-antagonist with cabbages, under the guise that they slip.

I report this to Imsxz via an adminhelp, as it is irreversible, and the fact people were killing slimes en masse makes it a permanent death for anyone who was unfortunate to get turned into one. Being slime mutation toxin griefing, it's actually worse than plasmaman mutation toxin, as you are irreversibly turned into a simple mob unless it's a wizard round (it was a traitor round.)
I first told Imsxz,

PM to-Admins: Neither botanists were traitors, yet they made grief cabbages that got a lot of crew killed.


to which they responded simply

Admin PM from-Imsxz: i already spoke with the botanist about it.


The lack of transparency here made me press a bit further about it, because of how much of a non-issue it was. I replied

PM to-Admins: This wasn't bannable? I mean this is HIGH tier grief.


Slime mutation toxin is high tier grief because it guarantees players will be removed out of the round fast and permanently due to the fact it converts you into a simplemob slime, and the person did it with no regret till they were adminhelped about it.

Imsxz responded:
Admin PM from-Imsxz: it would have certainly eben a ban if the guy hadnt been playing constantly for a literal decade without a single other note


A bit flustered, I did respond:
PM to-Admins: So you're telling me, if I had no notes, but then went around killing the crew with bomb backpacks I laid around, that's fine?


but also clarified on the intent of the botanist from what the pAI Honkbot told me when confronted after my transformation, because they were shocked about the cabbage they were only told slipped people:
PM to-Admins: The guy literally gave Re-Tard a cabbage and said it only slips, and it actually turned me into a slime.


Imsxz responded:
Admin PM from-Imsxz: if you were a standup player for the past 10 years like this guy, and never caused any other issues, and told me you didnt realize itd get people killed, yeah id take your word.


We went back and forth about intent, with me saying that it's not the same thing, and Imsxz saying that it's exactly the case with this guy. Which I responded one last time before the round restarted to clarify once again the intent that was made clear from his interactions with the pAI:
PM to-Admins: He knowingly knew that it had slime mutation toxin in it, and handed it out under the guise it just slipped or grew people.


Imsxz shrugged it off once more with:
Admin PM from-Imsxz: if he had any other negative history id believe he did it out of malice


WORLD REBOOTS

This round ID: 104448

In OOC, the first thing the botanist that grief the round prior said was:
OOC: Glassbrain: y'all got slimed

Clearly not apologetic or regretful of griefing the entire crew the round prior.

I mention in OOC that they're not apologetic, and they did it maliciously. I then mention how they said they would only slip to the pAI that slipped me under the guise that they were just slippery cabbages.

Various people chimed in, regarding the round prior with responses, including the griefer in question (Glassbrain) like:
OOC: Lolibutt: i wanted to arrest botany but I got cabbaged

OOC: Man_Shroom: i died from the cabbages and turning into a slime and i'm not even mad

OOC: Guranda: The problem was the irreverability of the mutation
OOC: Guranda: It may as well kill people

OOC: Glassbrain: i said they would slip not that they would ONLY slip

OOC: Glassbrain: i thought it would be FUNNY and i'm sorry you didn't have fun.


Some point down the line, he attempts to justify it as just a prank with:
OOC: Glassbrain: it was botany memes


I inform him about one of the effects of the grief, which got me killed for being a slime despite not attacking anyone but a botanist that I thought was responsible off in a remote corner of botany when nobody was looking, as I thought they were responsible by unrelated players:
OOC: TheMythicGhost: I was proof of a slime that got murdered despite doing nothing, and got turned into a slime because of a griefing non-traitor.


Imsxz tries once again to hand-wave the issue, and directs me instead to these forums (as in the past I have never made an admin complaint about various admin abuse/admin misjudgement situations, though this isn't necessarily the worst I've dealt with at all) by saying:
OOC: Imsxz: mythic if you have an issue with my ruling you're free to make a complaint


Almost done

OOC now has like 3-4 people peanut gallerying up the chat because of my anger towards the situation where I have constantly reclarified the situation, alongside a few other people. Some noteworthy bits for the final section here are:

OOC: TheMythicGhost: Glass, you griefed, but you don't seem apologetic about that at all.
OOC: Glassbrain: i'm sorry man, i thought it'd be funny when i did it
OOC: TheMythicGhost: See?
OOC: TheMythicGhost: Does that not seem malicious?

He admits it was a mistake after this, but only after a while of confrontation.

and

OOC: Rodey125: he didn't force you
OOC: TheMythicGhost: He did though
OOC: Rodey125: you all took the cabbages
OOC: TheMythicGhost: He was throwing them
OOC: TheMythicGhost: At people
OOC: TheMythicGhost: What the fuck are you saying
OOC: Rodey125: lmfao just don't step on them like wtf
OOC: Glassbrain: i was forcing people yes
OOC: Rodey125: are you slow
OOC: Glassbrain: that's not a matter of dispute


At this point, OOC is muted, and Imsxz tells me:
OOC: Imsxz: hewwo
OOC: Imsxz: make an admin complaint if oyu have an issue ok]
OOC: Imsxz: shutup in my sacred OOC
OOC: Imsxz: ok
OOC: Imsxz: UWU


I don't think this kind of hand-waving should be acceptable specifically for instances of mass grief like this, despite previous player reputation, as it was proven (as clarified above) that the person had malicious intent, and were fully aware of what they were doing when they decided to turn a good portion of the crew into a slime. The logs linked to the round ID can clarify it even further if need be. If it were something like plasmaman mutation toxin, I could understand a slap on the wrist, as people can be turned right back into a human via that, but this was slime mutation toxin that caused an irreversible transformation that the crew could and did kill off permanently. I decided to file the complaint as they were the only admin on, and I felt it was an improper ruling on mass grief.



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Re: [Imsxz] TheMythicGhost - Improper Judgement Mass Grief while only admin online

Postby imsxz » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:50 am #485734

hi

i left it at a note due to me seeing this player frequently and never having any even remotely similar issues, the player also has a significant playtime and a very old byond account. when he said he didn't intend to ruin peoples round with it, i took his word. admins tend to give benefit of the doubt to reputable players for hopefully extremely obvious reasons.

my belief that he genuinely wasnt trying to fuck people over was reinforced when he adminhelped in the following round asking if banning him would alleviate the situation, I told him not to worry about it. he also admitted to messing up in the ahelp.

tl;dr local admin trusts long time good player in a rather incriminating situation
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Re: [Imsxz] TheMythicGhost - Improper Judgement Mass Grief while only admin online

Postby TheMythicGhost » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:57 am #485735

imsxz wrote: my belief that he genuinely wasnt trying to fuck people over was reinforced when he adminhelped in the following round asking if banning him would alleviate the situation, I told him not to worry about it. he also admitted to messing up in the ahelp.


Except this only happened AFTER it was brought up in OOC the following round by me in an attempt to get some clarity from the player who was responsible (as I was one of the affected parties by the mass griefing). That sounds less like sincerity, more like damage control gambling on not being punished equal to the level of the rulebreak.

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Re: [Imsxz] TheMythicGhost - Improper Judgement Mass Grief while only admin online

Postby imsxz » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:16 am #485737

he admitted to messing up in the original ahelp, i was originally gonna ban him but he appeared genuine and i checked his history and saw it was spotless with an age old account so i figured i could take his word.

edit: im too tired to find the logs but he stated he didn't intend to ruin the rounds of others, he just thought it'd be funny to do. i honestly cannot fathom anyone deranged enough to be a perfect player for a decade just for a couple epic grief moments. it was a very specific situation that made me decide to leave him with only a note. if he had any notes at all i'd have probably banned him, if i didn't see him regularly i'd have probably banned him, if he acted like a twat in ahelps i'd have probably banned him, if i knew him for toeing the line without gathering notes i'd have certainly banned him.

everything about him led me to believe he's being genuine and wasnt acting with the intent to ruin peoples rounds.
Last edited by imsxz on Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Imsxz] TheMythicGhost - Improper Judgement Mass Grief while only admin online

Postby TheMythicGhost » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:20 am #485738

I don't think mass grief is something you should take a person's word for. It should have a punishment levied with it, doesn't have to be permanent, but due to it being intentional mass grief, I hardly think a note is a suitable punishment. Being too lax in situations like that only breed more situations like that, whether you're on or not to catch them.

Edit: Given the person's long history on the server, that makes for less of an excuse to pull a stunt of this magnitude. I wouldn't be out of line to say that.

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Re: [Imsxz] TheMythicGhost - Improper Judgement Mass Grief while only admin online

Postby imsxz » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:59 am #485758

for the record i had settled on giving the botanist a note before the OOC fiasco.

Code: Select all
[2019-03-23 03:15:34.597] ADMINPRIVATE: Imsxz/(Lexia Black) has created a note for Glassbrain: tossed advanced mutation toxin plants as a nonantag - leaving this as a warning due to extensive playtime with really old account with a perfect history, realized their error in adminhelps.

[2019-03-23 03:26:57.350] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #16: TheMythicGhost/(Respii Varenos): Neither botanists were traitors, yet they made grief cabbages that got a lot of crew killed. - heard by 1 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.


this happened before the round ended, before any of that OOC nonsense or even talking with respii.
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PostThis post was deleted by Arianya on Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:07 pm.
Reason: Peanut post

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Re: [Imsxz] TheMythicGhost - Improper Judgement Mass Grief while only admin online

Postby imsxz » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:40 am #488040

Just to clear things up, I don't wanna set a precedent that high playtime alone is why I was not severe. I genuinely don't believe I'll see similar issues from this player.
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Re: [Imsxz] TheMythicGhost - Improper Judgement Mass Grief while only admin online

Postby Hulkamania » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:00 am #488213

We have decided not to uphold this complaint, with the caveat that the note has been adjusted to account for their behavior in the following round.

Imsxz, and other admins, take multiple things into consideration when determining punishment. Outside of a few cases (such as applying a 24 hour ban per unjustified kill) we leave the severity of a given punishment up to the admin in question. Several factors such as playtime, note history, general attitude about the situation from the player and any number of outside factors will result in no two cases being exactly the same.

Imsxz acted in good faith in this situation. Although this was a somewhat severe case of grief, their discussion with the player and the players overall history led them to believe that it did not warrant a ban outright. There is no evidence that shows that Imsxz did not perform their due diligence in coming to this decision, or that they had any other malicious intent behind it.

Regarding the players behavior in the following round; The player in question did seem to brush off the punishment and brag about their actions, but this has nothing to do with Imsxz's ruling on the situation within the round itself. We as administrators aren't able to control how a player behaves after their case has been dealt with, and retroactively adjusting punishments to increase in severity (like turning a note into a ban) based on later actions sets a precedent that we don't want around. That being said, Imsxz has adjusted the note to indicate that the tone of the ahelp conversation, which factored into the decision, did not match their behavior. The punishment has remained the same, but in any future incidents the note will reflect their intent more clearly.


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