[Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

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TothBrush
 
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:50 am
Byond Username: Kainoa

[Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby TothBrush » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:47 pm #490276

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Bagil in game
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: Ckey Kainoa, IC Trinity Westcoat
Admin: Shad0k
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: https://sb.atlantaned.space/rounds/106543
Detailed summary:

Got arrested by the Hop for pushing people over in the hallways. Hop cuffed and dragged me to medbay (the first time), stated that they were going to remove my limbs. The doctor asked if they were going to remove my cat ears/tail or other limbs. Hop said:
Hazel Pritchard says, "We can do other limb removal"
I shouted over the radio that I needed help in surgery as they dragged me in while I was cuffed. When I got in, the hop and two other medical doctors were trying to get me into the operating table to remove my limbs while I shouted for help over the radio. Many people arrived to help, including at least an assistant, the chaplain, the captain and one or more security officers. I ran away and hid in maint while uncuffing myself.
I was set to wanted, and then got arrested again (the second time). The officer who arrested me took me to the hop, who then took me to medbay surgery, where they started preparing me for limb removal surgery.
I shouted again over the radio many times that I needed help and the hop removed my headset. Again many people arrived to help me, and the chaplain dragged me away to safety in the chapel. He uncuffed me, but we were chased there. He gave me a new headset which I put on and he uncuffed me, then the hop came in, stunbatoned me and cuffed me and dragged me again to medbay (the third time). Again I shouted for help over the radio and people came to try to help me.

This is the point where I made my first ahelp, this was the third time I was arrested by the hop for harrassing people in the hallways at roundstart. I ahelped stating that I had been cuffed and dragged to surgery 3 times by the same person over a single instance of harassing them at round-start. The time that I made this ahelp was Image 23:36:28
Keep in mind that at the time of this ahelp, i had ALREADY spent the majority of the round being cuffed and dragged around in surgery by the hop and the medical doctors. I spent more time in cuffs at this point already than out of cuffs and I was pretty clearly upset with how the game was already going.

At this point I was dragged again by the chaplain to the morgue, where I tried to remove my cuffs and the chaplain ran away. This time, another medical doctor allegedly acting under the orders of the hop to remove my limbs grabbed me before I could uncuff myself and then dragged me to surgery (the fourth time). Once there I was stripped and had an anasthetic tank equiped and the internals were set. I tried to call for help IC again for the 4th time this round but wasn't able to get anyone to help. In the room there were two medical doctors, the head of personell, a peacekeeper borg, and a security officer who was watching from the surgery observation deck. Multiple people entered and exited the surgery room during this time.

I dont exactly know what the roundtimer was at this moment, but given that the round initialized at 2019-04-20 15:09:54 and I ahelped immdeiately afterwards saying an MD made me horiztonal in surgery at 22:40:20 we can deduce that this happened at around 30 minutes into the round. At this point I had ahelped multiple times and the only response from Shad0k was "I'll message him" refering to the hop

I don't really know what happened after this. I know I didn't leave surgery again for the rest of the game. I spent most of it under anasthetic and some of it was spent cuffed and restrained by the hop or one of the two medical doctors. At one point someone tableslammed me on the table between surgery and surgery observation but I was stunbatoned and then thrown back over the table again into surgery by a security officer who apparently thought it was funny.
During this time they didn't do a single surgery on me. I have no idea what they were doing. I'm assuming they were trying to do surgery on me but were failing or something similar but throughout this entire time I didn't lose any limbs or and other body parts.

This continued for around 30-35 minutes straight. During this time Shad0k repeatedly said he was doing something, but he did nothing. He told me

1. The hop was not trying to remove your limbs
despite the fact that the hop said multiple times IC that they intended to remove my limbs and likely said so more IC when I either wasn't in the room with them or were under anesthetics Hazel Pritchard says, "We can do other limb removal" Hazel Pritchard says, "You get the ears i'll get the other limbs"

2. He said he was doing something
despite the fact that this continued from roundstart nonstop for more than 45 minutes straight where I spent upwards of 40 minutes cuffed and under anesthetics. I kept thinking something was going to change and that the admin would bwoink the people involved and tell them that forcefully cuffing me and then holding me in cuffs for 40+ minutes straight was against the rules but never happened. I eventually got fed up and ghosted when I realized the admin had no intention of doing anything at all.

tl;dr got stunned and cuffed by the hop for funsies, admin said "I'll message him" and then did nothing and watched while I spent 40 minutes straight cuffed and unconcious in surgery trying to get him to help me through ahelps. Admin told me my ahelp was an IC issue because the Hop lied to them and said they weren't going to de-limb me. I spent so long completely removed from the round that I just gave up and ghosted to go play a ghost role for the rest of the round.

I really want someone to explain to me how optimumtact literally bwoinks me seconds after I flash and cuff someone for greifing RnD as roboticist explicitly telling me they'll ban me if I don't let them go immediately quoting the don't be a dick rule but for some reason I can spent 40 minutes straight being dragged around in cuffs literally begging for help and just telling everyone to fucking stop and leave me alone and yet the Shad0k does nothing and then tells me that they received a note when the whole ordeal is over. I find it really hard to believe that I'm also pretty fucking insulted that he would outright state he didn't even look at my ahelp initially because he thought I was trying to bait someone into getting banned. Like I had already spent 30 minutes cuffed and unconscious and somehow he thinks I did it all on purpose just to try to get hop or someone banned. How am I supposed to feel like he actually gave a shit about my ahelp when he says "At first I didn't give this enough attention because I thought you were just banbaiting"



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Gigapuddi420
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Re: [Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby Gigapuddi420 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:26 pm #490281

A solo admin on what is typically our busiest server can't always deal with things immediately and quickly. At the end of the day admins are volunteers recruited for their good reputation and disposition. Sometimes it takes a while to message everyone, dive through logs and try to get a full picture of events. I'm not sure what the end game of this complaint is; at worst shad0k made some mistakes and wasn't quick in his resolution. Quick resolution isn't something we can always expect of a admin. Each case is unique and comparing how this case was handled with optimumtact's quick resolution of someone with history of poor escalation in science isn't the same.
Imperfect catgirl playing a imperfect game.

TothBrush
 
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:50 am
Byond Username: Kainoa

Re: [Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby TothBrush » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:22 pm #490299

Gigapuddi420 wrote:A solo admin on what is typically our busiest server can't always deal with things immediately and quickly. At the end of the day admins are volunteers recruited for their good reputation and disposition. Sometimes it takes a while to message everyone, dive through logs and try to get a full picture of events. I'm not sure what the end game of this complaint is; at worst shad0k made some mistakes and wasn't quick in his resolution. Quick resolution isn't something we can always expect of a admin. Each case is unique and comparing how this case was handled with optimumtact's quick resolution of someone with history of poor escalation in science isn't the same.


>someone with history of poor escalation in science isn't the same
Two notes in 1200 is poor history of escalation. This is why I appeal notes because people like you say stuff like this that causes these conflicts in the fucking first place.

"I went to check your other notes, and I thought, "oh, this is probably one of those players who instigate multiple conflicts every round and ahelp when they lose one. I'll let him deal with the consequences."
Shad0k in his own words in the permaban thread stated this.

Fuck you for perpetuating this bullshit knowing full well that it ruins my rounds when admins do nothing because I'm made out to be a shitter. I pushed him once, ran away, and got arrested. You're saying that having an admin dismiss my 40 long round spent in cuffs over two notes is justified.

TothBrush
 
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Byond Username: Kainoa

Re: [Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby TothBrush » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:26 pm #490302

I think I'm approaching this the wrong way so I want to say this very clearly: I really don't know what I'm doing different. Between this round and one other round (where I was cuffed and welded into a locker and dragged around for 9 minutes for funsies) I just feel like somehow I'm doing something different. The admins tell me to stop and cite rule 1 saying I'm not allowed to attack people or detain people without very very very valid IC reasons but when other people do it to me for no reason at all I don't know how they "get away" with it.

Sorry if you think I'm demanding a lot from the admins. I just feel like the more I play, the LESS concrete and LESS reasonable my expectations of what's within and outside of the rules.

I think I don't get it

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knacker48
 
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:49 pm
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Re: [Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby knacker48 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:48 pm #490311

I thought it might be important to mention that you still have the ban appeal thread open viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22439.
I'm not sure what the rules are on this but shouldn't you wait until that appeal is resolved since, if it gets denied then that would mean they are upholding shad0k's decision, and would kind of reject this complaint before you even make it.

TothBrush
 
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:50 am
Byond Username: Kainoa

Re: [Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby TothBrush » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:11 pm #490319

knacker48 wrote:I thought it might be important to mention that you still have the ban appeal thread open viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22439.
I'm not sure what the rules are on this but shouldn't you wait until that appeal is resolved since, if it gets denied then that would mean they are upholding shad0k's decision, and would kind of reject this complaint before you even make it.


I wasn't banned by shad0k. Shad0k handled a ticket I made, after the ticket was resolved Nevere decided to permaban me for something I said on beestation in deadchat.

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Dax Dupont
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Re: [Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby Dax Dupont » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:25 am #490331

You have a history of being extremely hostile in ahelps regardless of notes.

When you're admining solo on a high ticket round you basically do triage and handle tickets according to need.
I doubt any admin would prioritize someone's who's excessively rude to them and known to constantly tide his way into situations where he's screaming in ahelps because the fight he started didn't end in his favor.

They'd focus on the poor sausage who actually got killed fnr and is being polite.

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Shad0k
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Re: [Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby Shad0k » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:39 am #490337

Saying that I didn't give a shit at all is wrong. I'd like to clarify something. I did say "at first I thought you were just banbaiting" at 23:08, 30 minutes after your first message, but I realized this was a legitimate ahelp around 22:45, "only" 10 minutes after your first PM. (Agreed, that was a stupid thing to say, it won't happen again.)

But from that point on, I started "giving a shit". Losing limbs over a disarm is extremely harsh so I messaged the HoP about it and noted him. I chose not to ban him because he had no prior notes. He gave up on the amputation after my PMs, but he wanted to take your ears and as I said in your ban appeal thread, I didn't stop him from doing so as competent docs can do it in less than 2 minutes. Unfortunately, those doctors were not very efficient but that's outside of my control. You ghosted before they could finish the surgery.

By the way, try cooperating instead of running away whenever you can. Escaping will only delay your release. Feel like your sentence is excessive? Just press F1.
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TothBrush
 
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:50 am
Byond Username: Kainoa

Re: [Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby TothBrush » Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:57 am #490342

Shad0k wrote:By the way, try cooperating instead of running away whenever you can.


I was unconscious.

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Shad0k
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Re: [Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby Shad0k » Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:44 pm #490403

TothBrush wrote:
Shad0k wrote:By the way, try cooperating instead of running away whenever you can.


I was unconscious.

You were not when you escaped. Anyway, that last part was just some advice: Generally speaking, people who run away after getting caught end up with longer sentences.
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TothBrush
 
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:50 am
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Re: [Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby TothBrush » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:43 am #490438

Shad0k wrote:
TothBrush wrote:
Shad0k wrote:By the way, try cooperating instead of running away whenever you can.


I was unconscious.

You were not when you escaped. Anyway, that last part was just some advice: Generally speaking, people who run away after getting caught end up with longer sentences.


I didn't try to escape or call for help even a single time until after the hop said they were going to remove my limbs and not my ears. The first time I got arrested I got disabled by an egun at security, cuffed, dragged to the bed in the room with the cryo tubes, and then I waited and didn't do or say anything to see what would happen.
Hop said "Hazel Pritchard says, "We can do other limb removal"" and then I called for help over radio, and people came to help

Honestly I should have ahelped right here, instead of after escaping and then getting arrested 3 times.

TothBrush
 
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:50 am
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Re: [Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby TothBrush » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:32 am #490445

I think so far I haven't done a good job of summing up why I was mad, it's not the time he took or the way he handled it, it's just the fact that Sha0k made it clear that the Hop was breaking the rules but never actually stopped it, so I basically was told "yeah I'll handle this" and then spent the game cuffed anyways.

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Hulkamania
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Re: [Shad0k] Kainoa - It's like he just didn't give a shit at all.

Postby Hulkamania » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:55 pm #491318

We're not going to be upholding this complaint.

First I want to address formatting. While you did use the template in the main post, your main message was that Shad0k was dismissive of your ahelp, that he took too long and that sort of thing. You point out that he said "at first I thought you were just banbaiting" as reasoning for why he may have taken so long. Later on in the thread you change gears completely and say that it wasn't Shad0k's way of handling the ahelp or how long it took, but rather that he did not fully punish the HoP in question for doing what they had.

By changing your focus of the complaint midway through you're not doing yourself too much of a favor regarding how we resolve it.

As for the situation in question. There is no doubt that you received the short end of the stick and that you were put in a very frustrating position for a long period of time, that's not very fun for you, and is very unfortunate. But if you think that Shad0k did nothing to help you, the evidence is here in the thread. He gave the HoP a note, and informed them to stop the amputation process, which they did. You were kept under for a long period of time, but as has been pointed out on more than one occasion that mostly falls to doctor incompetence. You may not entirely agree with the severity of the punishment that Shad0k decided on, but he issued a punishment for the behavior and made a reasonable effort to get it to stop, thus was not acting (or refusing to act) out of malice.

I will agree that he should not have assumed you were acting with the intent of ban baiting, and he has already been spoken to about this, however this is not the focus of the complaint itself.

In regards to the complaining party having an open ban appeal, that has nothing to do with how we chose to resolve this situation as Shad0k had nothing to do with that particular ban. Just because Kainoa was involved in that doesn't mean they don't get a chance to make their concerns known.


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