[Kiteme] TR-Blackdragon - Issue handled poorly

[TR-Blackdragon]

Post Content:
When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Syblil ~4:30pm Eastern -5
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: TR-Blackdragon , Jasper Hale
Admin: Kiteme
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: n/a
Detailed summary:
Ok Im going to use the code thing to make it less of a pain.

So to begin. I was in the middle of doing a brain surgery / eye surgery on a player as you can see below

Code: Select all

You wash your hands using the sink.


You drape the surgical drapes over Henry Heck's head to prepare for Brain surgery.



You begin to make an incision in Henry Heck's head...

Blood pools around the incision in Henry Heck's head.



You begin to retract the skin in Henry Heck's head...

You succeed.

This step requires a different tool!

You begin to saw through the bone in Henry Heck's head...

You saw Henry Heck's head open.



You begin to clamp bleeders in Henry Heck's head...
"

You succeed.


Henry Heck says, "Me head hurt."

This step requires a different tool!

Jasper Hale opens a book titled "Brain Surgery for Dummies" and begins reading intently.




You begin to fix Henry Heck's brain...



You succeed in fixing Henry Heck's brain.


Jasper Hale has analyzed Henry Heck's vitals.

Analyzing results for Henry Heck:
        Overall status: 70 % healthy

        Minor tissue damage detected.

        Damage: Brute-Burn-Toxin-Suffocation
                Specifics: 30-0-0-0

                Head: 30-0

Species: Human

Body temperature: 34.3 °C (93.7 °F)

Warning: Advance Disease detected
Name: Unknown.
Type: Blood.
Stage: 1/5.
Possible Cure: Leporazine

Subject is bleeding!

Blood level 99 %, 558.97 cl, type: O+

Henry Heck says, "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog"



Henry Heck says, "Antidisestablishmentarianism."


Henry Heck says, "Sweet, got my vocab back to normal"



You begin to mend the incision in Henry Heck's head...

Henry Heck says, "Now all I need is to not be fucking blind"

Henry Heck sniffs.

You succeed.


Jasper Hale says, "Working on it"





Jasper Hale says, "Then i have to get you leprozine"



You drape the surgical drapes over Henry Heck's eyes to prepare for Eye surgery.



Jasper Hale opens a book titled "Brain Surgery for Dummies" and begins reading intently.

Henry Heck sniffs.


You begin to make an incision in Henry Heck's eyes...


Blood pools around the incision in Henry Heck's eyes.


This step requires a different tool!x2


Henry Heck sniffs.

You begin to retract the skin in Henry Heck's eyes...



You succeed.

So its about here when the HoS pops into the veiwing area above the surgery room stateing that he needs blood. I noticed his medical stats via my medical hud that he was not in a critical state and that he would be alright while i finished my current surgery. In perspective his health bar was still green.

Code: Select all

Todd Greenwood says, "Hey. i need blood."

You begin to clamp bleeders in Henry Heck's eyes...


You succeed.

You begin to fix Henry Heck's eyes...


You succeed in fixing Henry Heck's eyes.x2


Todd Greenwood says, "HELLOOOO."

You begin to mend the incision in Henry Heck's eyes...

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

Jasper Hale is hit by a disabler beam in the head!


You succeed.

Jasper Hale says, "One moment"

And as you can see when he didnt get what he wanted which was for me to stop what i was doing and help him he decided to shoot me with a disabler.

then I finish my surgery and open the door to let the patient out and the HoS bursts in pushing me out of the way and grabs the blood. then goes and attaches the blood to the IV . So i come out and buckle him to the bed. which he respondes with getting off the bed and then firing his disabler at me over and over again.

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Henry Heck sniffs.



Jasper Hale says, "Im finishing up here"

Todd Greenwood says, "I DONT HAVE A FUCKING MOMENT IM ABOUT TO FAINT."

Jasper Hale says, "Your not in crit"

Henry Heck says, "Wow I can see even worse"

Henry Heck says, "Than I alrready did"

Jasper Hale has grabbed Henry Heck passively!


You shake Henry Heck trying to get him up!

Henry Heck says, "I Can see less"

Jasper Hale has grabbed Todd Greenwood passively!

Todd Greenwood shoves Jasper Hale into Henry Heck!

Henry Heck says, "And I'm blind"

Henry Heck sniffs.

Todd Greenwood attaches the IV drip to Todd Greenwood.


Jasper Hale buckles Todd Greenwood to the roller bed!

Todd Greenwood unbuckles himself from the roller bed.

Henry Heck sniffs.


Henry Heck hugs Jasper Hale to make him feel better!

Jasper Hale is hit by a disabler beam in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!


Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

Jasper Hale is hit by a disabler beam in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

Jasper Hale is hit by a disabler beam in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

The oxygen tank is hit by a disabler beam!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

The oxygen tank is hit by a disabler beam!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

[Common] Chris Jowers says, "Ashlizard, I can't understand you."

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

You're too exhausted to keep going...

Jasper Hale is hit by a disabler beam in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

Jasper Hale is hit by a disabler beam in the head!

its about then that the door shuts and stops the hos from unloading into me even more.

Mind you I have commited No crime.

So Seeing that earlier in the round someone stated that the HoS might not be the actual HoS i proceeded to medical storage and get morphine and two syringes and a syringe gun. and i unload two syrings (30 u total) into him to try and get security down to medbay to handle the issue. Then the HoS shoots me with a disabler then when i drop changes over to lethal and kills me.

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You fill the syringe with 5 units of the solution. It now contains 5 units.

You fill the syringe with 5 units of the solution. It now contains 10 units.

You fill the syringe with 5 units of the solution. It now contains 15 units.

You load the syringe into the syringe gun.

You fill the syringe with 5 units of the solution. It now contains 5 units.

You fill the syringe with 5 units of the solution. It now contains 10 units.

You fill the syringe with 5 units of the solution. It now contains 15 units.

Jasper Hale fires the syringe gun!

Todd Greenwood is hit by a syringe in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

The medical doctor's locker is hit by an ion bolt!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

The surplus prosthetic limbs is hit by a disabler beam!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!x2

Jasper Hale is hit by a disabler beam in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

Jasper Hale is hit by a disabler beam in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!x2

Jasper Hale is hit by a disabler beam in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!x2

You load the syringe into the syringe gun.

Todd Greenwood puts the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun into the security backpack.


Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

Jasper Hale fires the syringe gun!

Todd Greenwood is hit by a syringe in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

You're too exhausted to keep going...

Jasper Hale is hit by a disabler beam in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun!

Jasper Hale is hit by a laser in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun point blank at Jasper Hale!

Jasper Hale is hit by a laser in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun point blank at Jasper Hale!


Jasper Hale is hit by a laser in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the energy gun point blank at Jasper Hale!

Jasper Hale is hit by a laser in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the energy gun point blank at Jasper Hale!

Jasper Hale is hit by a laser in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the energy gun point blank at Jasper Hale!

Jasper Hale is hit by a laser in the head!

Todd Greenwood fires the energy gun point blank at Jasper Hale!

... You can almost hear something ...

You feel your heart slow down...

At this point i ahelp and im just going to post the rest into a single code bracket

Code: Select all

PM to-Admins: HoS just killed me when i only hit him with non lethal



-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Kiteme: why did you morphine syringe him

Click on the administrator's name to reply.


PM to-Admins: The dude started shooting me with a disabler for no reason when i was performing surgery


PM to-Admins: So any update?


-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Kiteme: yea, it was valid. morphine syringing him when he is trying to arrest you opens you up to that, and he left you outside of cloning.

Click on the administrator's name to reply.


PM to-Admins: um he wasnt trying to arrest me. the dude came into medical. while i was performing surgery and shot a disabler beam at me for no reason execpt i wasnt giving him my attention.


PM to-Admins: So he can run around shooting who ever when ever he wants with no reprocutions?


-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Kiteme: that isn't how this works. he was trying to arrest you.

Click on the administrator's name to reply.


PM to-Admins: WAIT A MOMENT, so he went from disabler to LETHAL as an arrest ?


You can no longer reply to this ticket, please open another one by using the Adminhelp verb if need be.


-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Kiteme: yes, after you shot him with morphine.

Click on the administrator's name to reply.


PM to-Admins: So he can go into surgery before and just start shooting me for no reason?


-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Kiteme: I already told you it wasn't "for no reason".

Click on the administrator's name to reply.


PM to-Admins: excuse me? when he shot me while i was performing surgery. It was for no reason. it was way before i shot him with morphen


-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Kiteme: he used lethals AFTER you shot him with the syringe.

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: Yea and i used a NON LETHAL defence against what i saw as a raging HoS shooting medical for no reason in the medbay


Current Admins:
        Naksuasdf is a Coder
        Kiteme is a TrialAdmin
Adminhelps are also sent to IRC. If no admins are available in game adminhelp anyways and an admin on IRC will see it and respond.


PM to-Admins: Are you getting me an actual admin or do i need to file a complaint?



-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Kiteme: you can file a complaint.

Click on the administrator's name to reply.


PM to-Admins: Will do

Now im not sure if Trial admins have to get another admin or not when requested but considering the situation I would have prefered to have spoken to someone who has more experience in handling issues.
But I do not beleive the situation was handled properly as the HoS who is supposed to be held to a higher standard shouldnt be going around shooting medical staff willy nilly for no reason except that he isnt being prioritized for care.

And I was a bit upset at the time and I should have used different wording other then "actual admin" I ment to say Full admin. So i will apologies for that.

[Arianya]

Now im not sure if Trial admins have to get another admin or not when requested but considering the situation I would have prefered to have spoken to someone who has more experience in handling issues.

The rules stateth:

6. In-game administration rulings are final.

Which functionally means, no, you're not entitled to a second opinion/"another admin".

And I was a bit upset at the time and I should have used different wording other then "actual admin" I ment to say Full admin. So i will apologies for that.

Trial Admins are considered "Full Admins" in every way that matters to a player - their rulings are no more contestable in-game then a GameAdmin's. The only distinction between a GameAdmin and TrialAdmin is that the latter is considered to be on probation and will receive a review after 2 months. In the past, it's been looked upon very poorly to request an "actual admin" or ask for "another admin". If you disagree with a ruling and you were banned/noted/etc then it's a matter for ban appeals. If you feel that an issue was handled poorly its a matter for admin complaints.

[TR-Blackdragon]

This is a admin complaint for issue being handled poorly. Im used to another server where one can ask for someone above if one beleives the issue wasnt handled properly if the round is still going on so that way one isnt placing ooc info somewhere for a round that is taking place. But now that i know I will refrain from requesting another in the future

[kiteme]

The HOS started with disablers, and then used lethals after you syringed him. He had no way to tell what was in the syringe, and was well within his right to assume it wasn’t good. It was a valid reason to kill you. He even left you outside of cloning, and you ended up getting cloned.

[TR-Blackdragon]

Only after you contacted him. He was dragging me into maintenance before that. My issue is conserning what took place BEFORE i shot him with the syringes and the fact that he was dragging me into the maintenance area outside viro.

He had no LEGIT reason to be shooting me with Disablers to begin with. Especially since i was performing Surgery on another patient.

[FloranOtten]

Going to try to use the peanut policy, mild failure is expected

The HoS did not need a good reason to shoot you with a single disabler. If he had killed you right then and there, it would have been bannable. The problem here lies with you shooting a morphine syringe at him. Even though morphine would not kill him, he did not know it was filled with morphine, did he? For all he knew you were a traitor that just shot a mix of phlogiston and gunpowder at him. That is why he killed you.

[Screemonster]

by the same peanut policy, if you're gonna say it's okay for sec to go around disabling people randomly and killing people that fight back because "lol they attacked a sec officer they're valid" then that sounds pretty fuckin' killbait
as for the actual policy:

Security is expected not to retaliate with random abuse or violence unless the person in question is otherwise eligible for execution.

[Cobby]

Elephant in the room is that 30u of morphine (or well >25 since it would have metabbed a bit between the shots) is addiction and that's a safe way to ruin someone's round pretty hard unless they get cloned.

Doing that because he disabled you and then running to admins when he justifiably kill you would have given you a ban from me If I could determine that you knew what morphine does at that concentration.

by the same peanut policy, if you're gonna say it's okay for sec to go around disabling people randomly and killing people that fight back because "lol they attacked a sec officer they're valid" then that sounds pretty fuckin' killbait
as for the actual policy:

Security is expected not to retaliate with random abuse or violence unless the person in question is otherwise eligible for execution.

No. If you going to claim killbaiting don't indulge in the killbait then ahelp only when you lose.

If he thought sec was being abusive to the point it needed admin intervention he should have ahelped at that point rather than doing that only when the (most debilitating) IC method didn't pan out for him.

I don't like killbaiters but I absolutely despise weaponizing admins.

[Hulkamania]

We've decided not to uphold this complaint.

We are in agreement that the HoS was being excessive by disabling you while you were just attempting to do your job. However you removed a lot of the ground you had to stand on in that regard when you shot him full of morphine. Not only does this give them a very harsh addiction, it's also the first instinct when injected with a mystery chemical to stop whoever pumped you full of it.

As has been brought up, if you think someone is behaving beyond being an IC dick and is breaching into being a dick in an OOC sense, you should ahelp it and not just doing so after your attempted resolution didn't pan out the way you thought it did.

Kiteme was acting on the information he had at hand, and his information showed that before you ahelped and the HoS acted, you injected him with chemicals well over the addiction threshold. The HoS was simply responding to that action.