[NecromancerAnne] OmegaShoots - Ruling that defies any logic whatsoever

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randomname100
 
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:02 pm
Byond Username: OmegaShoots

[NecromancerAnne] OmegaShoots - Ruling that defies any logic whatsoever

Postby randomname100 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:16 pm #504837

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Game Server
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: OmegaShoots, Declan Cooper
Admin: NecromancerAnne
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: 114200
Detailed summary: I join as a lawyer, and Ron Lemon calls out that he's been arrested and is being held in brig with no clothes. I arrive to his cell and tell the hos to clothe him, me and hos have a funny shouting match in all caps about it, I then say very jokingly that I'm going to BLOW US ALL UP TO HELL, and pull out an igniter assembly, because my client was not being clothed. The hos batoned me and took it out, asked me what the trigger words were, and started trying to guess what could possible set the bomb off, and I say "CRONKULUS". Ron's still in his cell and hos is searching me, his timer runs out and he tries to run at hos and get her to stop bothering me. She runs around with me in cuffs until going into the perma area and continuing the search. She waits a bit until ron left the area and then takes me back out into the main brig area and searches my bag and briefcase. Now in this whole running away from ron thing, she put her baton in my bag either inadvertantly or on purpose, and then tried to say I had it, even though already having looked in my bag and in the first place and seeing I didn't have it. They then try to use this to put me into gulag, wherein then ron shows up again and I call for his help and he tries to rescue me. He shoves me into her and knocks us both over and we both run to the interrogation area of brig to try and uncuff, which he does while hos is trying to disable us both. Now this was all fun, and I thought it was just some ARE PEE from the hos to engage us in some tomfoolery in brig. However things quickly changed when in the process of me escaping brig, she had detained ron and took his headset off and I think dragged him into the hos office, to where I said on comms that ron's probably being hurt, and the ai says no (ai was malf and in the end it turns out she murdered ron). I had escaped through the west brig maint with her on my tail and caught her up by dragging a crate behind me and getting her stuck in a corner unable to follow. I tried to get back to brig and see if I could find ron and she had followed me back around, and I tried to escape through the same west brig maint, but in the end she cut me off from the tool storage area and ended up batoning me in maint with a harm baton. At this point I knew she wasn't RP'ing, as she proceeded to harm baton me into deep crit, and take me to the gulag shuttle, where I eventually crit out, and see ron's corpse in the cockpit. She sends the shuttle, and takes both of our bodies, and tosses them into the lava, to permanently remove us from the round.

I ahelped, and basically through all the explaining of the situation to anne, she comes up with the absolutely disgusting ruling that this entire thing was justified because I had "threatened them with a bomb".
Now back to that "bomb", which was an igniter assembly, a completely harmless item that does nothing but spark depending on what trigger is on it. The hos tried to play dumb and say that this was a credible threat, even though an igniter is a completely harmless item, and from their actions in the brig I was almost certain they knew exactly what it was and was trying to make the incident funny for everyone by trying to guess the codewords to trigger the "bomb".

I couldn't believe the ruling that I was hearing, because it's just flat out defying escalation and security policy.

I asked for a headmin review because at this point the situation really required it, two people tossed into lava, one who only tried to help someone who was being arrested for something very silly. They apparently asked, and after a few minutes said I would not be getting a headmin to review the situation, and resolved the ticket.

Immediately after this, an atmos tech came to the brig to give the hos a backpack, and the atmos tech pulled out a multitool and hos then batoned them and said something along the lines of "I SWEAR IF THIS BLOWS ME UP".... a multitool. At this point it's very apparent that the hos is playing it up for anyone that could still be watching and doubting whether or not they know the items in question are dangerous or not.

tl;dr Hos pretended that an igniter was a bomb and used it as justification to permanently remove two players from the round, admin buys the story and justifies it



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NecromancerAnne
 
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:55 pm
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] OmegaShoots - Ruling that defies any logic whatsoever

Postby NecromancerAnne » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:40 pm #505052

I feel there is a measure of misrepresentation in this, since I didn't say it was valid on it being a 'bomb' alone. I knew what it was, and I would have been able to tell the difference between a igniter assembly and a real bomb.

The key thing was that the HoS didn't. They showed it to me and I flat out told them 'that's not a bomb that's an igniter assembly'.

[2019-07-26 18:44:34.646] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: NecromancerAnne/(Jodie Jensen)->Kendrickorium/(Sunshine Day): Kendrik, that's an igniter assembly.

[2019-07-26 18:44:53.357] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: NecromancerAnne/(Jodie Jensen)->Kendrickorium/(Sunshine Day): You can't bomb anything with that. It's not even used in grenade crafting anymore.

[2019-07-26 18:44:54.156] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Kendrickorium/(Sunshine Day)->NecromancerAnne/(Jodie Jensen): what do you mean


I learned from the HoS about the 'bomb threat' as well, not from you. So thanks for leaving out valuable evidence to your initial ahelp.

Now the HoS isn't ENTIRELY in the wrong because igniter assemblies were used in grenade crafting not too long ago but I can't really hold a HoS accountable for a lack of game knowledge when you yourself were acting in a somewhat baity manner and trying to in some way trick them. While it is definitely hilarious when security members prove how stupid they are, fake bomb threats are still probably going to get your shit pushed in.

The HoS also has full permission to execute people and between the bomb threat and grabbing Ron and running I feel like you'd likely end up in perma for your tomfoolery if anything. And since perma is equating death, actual execution is about as acceptable if a bit much.

I did say it was a bit much but I don't think it was entirely against the rules. Baity behavior usually involves acting like an antag and doing that to security is a recipe for disaster.

I did ask for a headmin to come to address the issue, as you asked. When I explained the situation and posted the logs, they declined because there was nothing in the matter that THEY felt was wrong.

randomname100
 
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:02 pm
Byond Username: OmegaShoots

Re: [NecromancerAnne] OmegaShoots - Ruling that defies any logic whatsoever

Postby randomname100 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:15 pm #505054

"Act like an antag" I would assume would be more than making a completely outrageous, silly statement and pulling a harmless item out. "I'M GOING TO BLOW US UP TO HELL" because the hos has a naked guy in the brig is a joke, it's funny, and should be self evident.
The player in question isn't new, they know what the item is. They also killed ron. And then threw us into lava.

Would it also be justified in your eyes if they did the same thing after pulling out another item, another item just as harmless as the igniter? Because again, this was an igniter assembly, it makes sparks, that player isn't new, and plays dumb all the time.

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teepeepee
 
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] OmegaShoots - Ruling that defies any logic whatsoever

Postby teepeepee » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:52 pm #505055

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=9396
hilarious precedent about doing false threats in front of dumb/ignorant security
there is the difference of perma removal in this case though, but faulting a player for falling to your ruse is kinda banbaity, as long as he truly didn't know, that is
peanut below this line
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admin should have told the guy to clone you after he learned the igniter wasn't a bomb tbh, but you totally got what you asked for

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lmwevil
 
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] OmegaShoots - Ruling that defies any logic whatsoever

Postby lmwevil » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:20 pm #505061

teepeepee wrote:https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=9396
hilarious precedent about doing false threats in front of dumb/ignorant security
there is the difference of perma removal in this case though, but faulting a player for falling to your ruse is kinda banbaity, as long as he truly didn't know, that is
peanut below this line
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holy fuck i forgot about that thread, i can't stop laughing


in reality it's play stupid games, win stupid prizes. guy genuinely didn't know it wasn't a bomb, and you can't assume someone will always know what X or Y is in the game.
if you act like an antag and a g*mer kills you because they don't know that it isn't real antag stuff, it's kind of what you asked for.

(I'd have respawned you both as a honkbot though because it was pretty funny)

randomname100
 
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:02 pm
Byond Username: OmegaShoots

Re: [NecromancerAnne] OmegaShoots - Ruling that defies any logic whatsoever

Postby randomname100 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:22 pm #505062

Let's not forget that I was originally only being gulagged when they "found" the planted stun baton they put in my bag and tried to say I had it from the beginning.

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lmwevil
 
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] OmegaShoots - Ruling that defies any logic whatsoever

Postby lmwevil » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:31 pm #505065

also i just did a check into the logs of adminbus, anne did actually check with headmins to see if it was a ticket to be handed off around the time you asked for one in the ticket thread. in short it was deemed it didn't need to be given to them standard disclaimer that headmins don't know the full picture or information as they only know what they're told

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Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] OmegaShoots - Ruling that defies any logic whatsoever

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:37 am #505160

I’m curious what the ruling on falsifying evidence by the sec officer to have the incompetent HoS brig someone is? That doesn’t seem to have been touched on anywhere by an admin due to the focus on “I have a bomb wew”. If true, that would be bannable grief by the sec officer, no?
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NikNakFlak
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] OmegaShoots - Ruling that defies any logic whatsoever

Postby NikNakFlak » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:29 pm #505220

There's more to the story than just the fake bomb scare. Stealing prisoners is always shitty and I never blame a HoS for kicking people's shit in when they get their prisoners stolen.
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randomname100
 
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:02 pm
Byond Username: OmegaShoots

Re: [NecromancerAnne] OmegaShoots - Ruling that defies any logic whatsoever

Postby randomname100 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:00 pm #505222

I wasn't the one that stole anyone away, Ron freed me while I was being gulagged for the stun baton that was planted, and he was originally brigged for something else entirely that I never learned of during the whole ordeal. He had a 3 min or 3:30 sentence, probably some minor tide. And in the end he was executed and thrown into the lava with me, where both of our bodies cremated.

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wubli
 
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] OmegaShoots - Ruling that defies any logic whatsoever

Postby wubli » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:24 am #511511

We will not be upholding this complaint.
The premise of this is that the HoS was fully aware that your actions were just a joke, but as it seems, it was not. If this were to be a regular thing, NecromancerAnne would have certainly doubted it. She assumed that the HoS acted in good faith, and we don't think that was wrong.
Act like an antag, get treated like one. You cannot assume that people have all the knowledge about the game, even less when igniters were used before, which could've lead to the confusion.
We don't find anythin wrong with NecromancerAnne's ruling, and, if you care about the player's conduct, they won't forget about this incident, and lying about it would get them punished. At this point, it's a he said, she said situation and both rulings would've been complained about.
I'm locking this.
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