[NecromancerAnne] Sandshark808 - Bizarre ruling on RDM
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:34 pm
Byond account and character name: Sandshark808, Steals-the-Gloves
Admin: NecromancerAnne
Time and Server incident occurred: Sybil, around 12:30 or 1:00 AM on 9/4/2019
ROUND ID HERE: 117805
Detailed summary:
So, this round had some admin fuckery going on that I really don't know the full extent of and I can't really comment on that. I was a chef who became a shaft miner and missed most of it, but when I got back onto the station there was a centcom official there who had shown up with the objective of arresting someone (a known traitor) who apparently had gotten lizard tail removal surgery and became human, or something.
Anyway, I decided out of a sense of lizard brotherhood to help centcom perform the arrest however I could. There was a bit of messing around, I gave them a fake gun from cargo, and after the HoS arrested the lizard officer I went to security to free him. That wasn't really necessary since they had apparently worked out the misunderstanding, or so I thought. I would come to find out later that, as soon as he got out of sec, the AI had killed him with a welding borg-tool and spaced the body.
I ended up catching the traitor and pushing him into a disposal, which meant he was stuck in cargo until someone came to arrest him. I called on the comms telling people where he was and waited for sec or centcom to show up. Instead, the AI showed up. I figured he'd go past me and release the guy, and whatever it's out of my hands at that point.
What he actually did was flash me, and then, instead of just getting the guy while I was down, he beat me to death, carried me out of the arrivals airlock, went into space a ways to be sure I wouldn't get rescued, and threw me. I checked the AI's laws and he was not subverted. His only outstanding law was that the traitor was human (not OneHuman, but "he is also a human"), which doesn't give him license to murder me for no reason.
Naturally I ahelped that. However, NecromancerAnne declared it an IC issue because I had helped the centcom agent, even though I didn't harm anyone or threaten harm to anyone, and I was posing no hindrance to the AI just opening the door for the guy and letting him leave. They cited the fact that someone found me and cloned me at roundend as a mitigating factor, which doesn't really diminish the act of RDMing by a non-antag non-usurped AI in my opinion. Especially because the AI went out of their way to hide me, and it was only by sheer luck that I wound up on a z-level that someone found me on.
As I said, I don't believe this was the correct judgment, and I don't really trust any further resolutions by this admin in light of the situation. For one thing, non-antag murder is not an IC issue. Admin event or not, I was assisting a lawful order by central command to aid in the arrest of a known criminal (who had publicly dropped an emag and other traitor gear) without violence. For the AI to go around murdering people without escalation, and going straight to lethal violence when he had already stunned me with a flash and I had done nothing violent at all, this is at least worthy of a temporary silicon ban for the player in question (Nari Harimoto, I think).
Secondly, there's not really a proper escalation tree for silicons in the first place. Even if I had survived, and had potentially fought off or disabled the AI shell, I would have been hounded by an essentially unkillable AI player for the rest of the round. Given their obvious desire to kill and space anyone they felt was valid, if they got another AI shell they would no doubt have returned to kill me again, seeing it as "valid escalation." Without busting into the AI core and disabling them I would be easy pickings and they wouldn't get any equivalent IC consequences to death and spacing.
Admin: NecromancerAnne
Time and Server incident occurred: Sybil, around 12:30 or 1:00 AM on 9/4/2019
ROUND ID HERE: 117805
Detailed summary:
So, this round had some admin fuckery going on that I really don't know the full extent of and I can't really comment on that. I was a chef who became a shaft miner and missed most of it, but when I got back onto the station there was a centcom official there who had shown up with the objective of arresting someone (a known traitor) who apparently had gotten lizard tail removal surgery and became human, or something.
Anyway, I decided out of a sense of lizard brotherhood to help centcom perform the arrest however I could. There was a bit of messing around, I gave them a fake gun from cargo, and after the HoS arrested the lizard officer I went to security to free him. That wasn't really necessary since they had apparently worked out the misunderstanding, or so I thought. I would come to find out later that, as soon as he got out of sec, the AI had killed him with a welding borg-tool and spaced the body.
I ended up catching the traitor and pushing him into a disposal, which meant he was stuck in cargo until someone came to arrest him. I called on the comms telling people where he was and waited for sec or centcom to show up. Instead, the AI showed up. I figured he'd go past me and release the guy, and whatever it's out of my hands at that point.
What he actually did was flash me, and then, instead of just getting the guy while I was down, he beat me to death, carried me out of the arrivals airlock, went into space a ways to be sure I wouldn't get rescued, and threw me. I checked the AI's laws and he was not subverted. His only outstanding law was that the traitor was human (not OneHuman, but "he is also a human"), which doesn't give him license to murder me for no reason.
Naturally I ahelped that. However, NecromancerAnne declared it an IC issue because I had helped the centcom agent, even though I didn't harm anyone or threaten harm to anyone, and I was posing no hindrance to the AI just opening the door for the guy and letting him leave. They cited the fact that someone found me and cloned me at roundend as a mitigating factor, which doesn't really diminish the act of RDMing by a non-antag non-usurped AI in my opinion. Especially because the AI went out of their way to hide me, and it was only by sheer luck that I wound up on a z-level that someone found me on.
As I said, I don't believe this was the correct judgment, and I don't really trust any further resolutions by this admin in light of the situation. For one thing, non-antag murder is not an IC issue. Admin event or not, I was assisting a lawful order by central command to aid in the arrest of a known criminal (who had publicly dropped an emag and other traitor gear) without violence. For the AI to go around murdering people without escalation, and going straight to lethal violence when he had already stunned me with a flash and I had done nothing violent at all, this is at least worthy of a temporary silicon ban for the player in question (Nari Harimoto, I think).
Secondly, there's not really a proper escalation tree for silicons in the first place. Even if I had survived, and had potentially fought off or disabled the AI shell, I would have been hounded by an essentially unkillable AI player for the rest of the round. Given their obvious desire to kill and space anyone they felt was valid, if they got another AI shell they would no doubt have returned to kill me again, seeing it as "valid escalation." Without busting into the AI core and disabling them I would be easy pickings and they wouldn't get any equivalent IC consequences to death and spacing.