[Krusvik] Shikarego - Inappropriate Behavior and Note

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Shikarego
 
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[Krusvik] Shikarego - Inappropriate Behavior and Note

Postby Shikarego » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:20 pm #513079

Last night around 2AM EST on Sybil

I'm not here to complain about the admeme event, but for the sake of making this point I'll have to describe it. I'm posting after being encouraged to by other players in OOC.
To be clear, this complaint is about Krusvik's response to the player response to their event, so in order to present that I'll have to talk about the event quite a bit.

I was observing the round, not playing it. I asked in dchat if it was extended and some admin said "Krus is doing an event." I got excited! I love admin events. I love admin antags. I love me some creativity.
Observegang was pretty hype when we saw the spawned in bloody character in maint, wielding a fire axe, kitchen knife, and scalpel. Centcom told command there is a [REDACTED] in maint, and that they should not engage with it until Centcom can figure out more.
Nice! Horror shit, very exciting.
I ask if he has objectives, Brick says "Kill.". Okay, murderbone antag, but at least it's gonna be an RP meme. Sounds fun.
Sidenote: I don't know is Krus is Brick, but later in the round Brick gets pretty hostile towards people criticizing the event, calling Myriam a retard, saying "you're probably a redditor" and shit like that.

The antag gets offered to ghosts. It gets offered a few more times throughout the round, seemingly just to pass it around but I'm not certain.

Command immediately tells the crew about it despite being asked not to, and the valid-hunt begins. It becomes clear that the antag has GAR YOK on the fire axe, bloodcrawl, and the thermal monocle. Super deadly.
Some crew run into the antag in maint and get away alive, largely because the antag keeps throwing their fire axe and recalling it (much to the ridicule of dchat). Crew thinks its a ling because disablers aren't doing much and it seems to be healing up. Dchat starts wondering how much armor the guy has and Dinkle says "He has godmode," and dchat thinks he's joking. Eventually it becomes clear that the antag is not taking any damage of any kind, including stamina, and what was once excitement turns into frustration and bewilderment. Pretty soon, dchat is getting hostile over the event, and only two crew members have been killed. I can't speak to how much of the abuse in dchat was from salty i ded's, but observegang was decrying the unfairness and un-fun-ness of the godmode aspect.

The antag does get slipped and cuffed at one point, but bloodcrawls away and uncuffs, seemingly while bloodcrawled. At this point, dchat is saying whoever gets it next should suicide because the crew is basically being baited into death against something they can't beat but think is as mortal as they are. If there was any praise for the event in dchat, I did not see it, but to my knowledge I read every message. Even admins were chiming in to say it was kind of a dumb event.

Fast-forward to the end of the round. Shuttle is here, called only because of the "ling in maint" killing everyone. I get the ghost role and suicide, dchat only seems happy with it but I'm not omnipresent. It rolls again, I get it AGAIN and I'm in regen coma by the looks of it. I take out my oxy tank and gib myself. Raucous applause, obviously.

After the round, Krus says they weren't watching most of the round as they were busy writing and doing other stuff. On its own I think that's inappropriate. If you're staging an event, particularly one that seemed like it was gonna have RP elements, shouldn't you be watching? Maybe that's unfair of me but I think it's worth mentioning.
They go on to dismiss any criticism of the event, calling it "petty salt." Like, maybe some crew members were salty about dying, but that doesn't mean their criticisms aren't reasonable, right? Earlier in the round, Dinkle mentioned in dchat that coders don't care at all about what players have to say; I don't think admins should be the same way but that's how Krus was coming off.

Players were asking about why the event was the way it was, why the godmode etc, and aside from dismissing it Krus just says "I've done this event before, I'll do it again, and I'm done talking about it" despite not talking about the event beyond claiming all complaints were "petty salt."

Krus gave me an admin note "Bad roleplayer" despite literally no roleplay besides the centcom announcements going on. This came off as immature and inappropriate in the same way his response to the criticism was. I am happy to see that he has since cooled off and changed the note to: "Took an admin ghost role and suicided immediately, very poor conduct. A more proper response would have been to not sign up for the role if you disagreed with the event. "
And maybe that's true! maybe that would've been more proper, I'm willing to hear the argument, but I disagree. When you hijack the round and arguably ruin it to the point where dchat is begging the next person who rolls it to suicide.... I don't think you should be shocked when they suicide. I'll take the point though, maybe it's okay when admins hijack a round and not okay when players hijack the event. That doesn't sound unreasonable. But I've never done something like that before; despite being the guy who thinks we should remove wiz, I don't suicide when I roll wiz cuz I think it would be wrong.

So my point here is about the response to the response to the event. I think Krus deciding to basically AFK during the event is inappropriate and irresponsible. I think they were wildly immature and tactless in their dismissal of all criticisms and questions. I think as an admin they should have felt maybe a little compelled to answer questions beyond "I'm done talking about it." I don't think other admins would have behaved the same way. I'll grant that the majority of dchat was being abusive and insulting about the event, and it can be hard to see through that when its in regard to something you put forth that you think is good. That being said, I think admins should be responsible and accountable for their actions, and that means responding maturely to criticism ad questions even when they take the form of bile. There was NO response to any questions besides "I've done it before" and "I wasn't here for most of the round" and of course "I'm done talking about it."

Well, there was one kind of response. Krus dismissed some criticsm with questions like "So everything should be balanced and spoon-fed to you?" and I feel I should respond to that if only to take them seriously. If the centcom report saying not to engage had also said something like "It seems resilient to all forces attempting to stop it" etc, then maybe the crew wouldn't have taken it as the validhunting challenge that it seemed to be. Maybe it would've been a fun RP event. Instead, I don't think anyone had very much fun at all. Another admin mentioned that it seemed like it was only fun for the person who rolls it, and that sounds right to me. I mention this only to account for the one response Krus gave to criticism, and to point out that the response is similarly immature and unreasonable to their other behavior.

I'm not mad I got noted, I'm not hurt that we were treated poorly, I just think admins should be better than this.

WEW sorry that was so long, thanks for coming to my TED talk.



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Timonk
 
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Re: [Krusvik] Shikarego - Inappropriate Behavior and Note

Postby Timonk » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:11 pm #513115

Brick Carr isn't Krusvik. Krusvik Gustav is Krusvik.

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Gigapuddi420
 
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Re: [Krusvik] Shikarego - Inappropriate Behavior and Note

Postby Gigapuddi420 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:56 am #513412

Should anyone need the round ID to search logs for this one, it seems to have occurred on round-118000. Timonk is right, Brick Carr is NOT Krusvik.

As for the complaint itself I'm not really sure what you're looking for. You've stated in different parts of your long post that you aren't complaining about the fact the admin ran this event, you later pointed out you're not complaining about the note he give you when you suicide from the role offered to ghosts to do the event, you also stated you're not complaining about how you were treated either. So what, you're just generally disappointed with him? That level of criticism is probably better suited for his feedback, not a complaint forum designed for admin misconduct.
Imperfect catgirl playing a imperfect game.

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Krusvik
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Re: [Krusvik] Shikarego - Inappropriate Behavior and Note

Postby Krusvik » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:41 am #513881

Well already this off to a bad start.

To be clear, this complaint is about Krusvik's response to the player response to their event, so in order to present that I'll have to talk about the event quite a bit.


I mention this only to account for the one response Krus gave to criticism, and to point out that the response is similarly immature and unreasonable to their other behavior.


I'm not mad I got noted, I'm not hurt that we were treated poorly, I just think admins should be better than this.


I responded poorly because you two sat in dchat as observers all round and said nothing outside of "this is stupid." Literally.

Then, you took my event/ghost role from someone who may have enjoyed it, and suicided. The note is not inappropriate, we note and even ghost role ban people who do this.

I was observing the round, not playing it. I asked in dchat if it was extended and some admin said "Krus is doing an event." I got excited! I love admin events. I love admin antags. I love me some creativity.
Observegang was pretty hype when we saw the spawned in bloody character in maint, wielding a fire axe, kitchen knife, and scalpel. Centcom told command there is a [REDACTED] in maint, and that they should not engage with it until Centcom can figure out more.
Nice! Horror shit, very exciting.
I ask if he has objectives, Brick says "Kill.". Okay, murderbone antag, but at least it's gonna be an RP meme. Sounds fun.
Sidenote: I don't know is Krus is Brick, but later in the round Brick gets pretty hostile towards people criticizing the event, calling Myriam a retard, saying "you're probably a redditor" and shit like that.

If you were at all excited, I missed it. I only recall you shitting on the event at every turn, not even expressing a grain of interest.

The antag gets offered to ghosts. It gets offered a few more times throughout the round, seemingly just to pass it around but I'm not certain.

Yes, so the people who die when they are killed can be turned into the maintenance monster and have a chance to perpetuate the cycle of violence. The entire "split-personality" roleplay aspect is exclusively so everyone can have a shot at being an unbeatable boss in an unwinnable boss fight (which isn't even 100% true, as I'll explain later.)

Command immediately tells the crew about it despite being asked not to, and the valid-hunt begins. It becomes clear that the antag has GAR YOK on the fire axe, bloodcrawl, and the thermal monocle. Super deadly.
Some crew run into the antag in maint and get away alive, largely because the antag keeps throwing their fire axe and recalling it (much to the ridicule of dchat). Crew thinks its a ling because disablers aren't doing much and it seems to be healing up. Dchat starts wondering how much armor the guy has and Dinkle says "He has godmode," and dchat thinks he's joking. Eventually it becomes clear that the antag is not taking any damage of any kind, including stamina, and what was once excitement turns into frustration and bewilderment. Pretty soon, dchat is getting hostile over the event, and only two crew members have been killed. I can't speak to how much of the abuse in dchat was from salty i ded's, but observegang was decrying the unfairness and un-fun-ness of the godmode aspect.

Immediately, I've informed the players of the danger I created. According to you, this is what you wanted me to do. Yes, the horror had godmode toggled on, interestingly enough godmode does not resist stuns, clear counterplay.

The antag does get slipped and cuffed at one point, but bloodcrawls away and uncuffs, seemingly while bloodcrawled. At this point, dchat is saying whoever gets it next should suicide because the crew is basically being baited into death against something they can't beat but think is as mortal as they are. If there was any praise for the event in dchat, I did not see it, but to my knowledge I read every message. Even admins were chiming in to say it was kind of a d
umb event.

They were stunned, not slipped. Bloodcrawl has counterplay, just clean the floor, it's not a fight you can win with damage by design.

Fast-forward to the end of the round. Shuttle is here, called only because of the "ling in maint" killing everyone. I get the ghost role and suicide, dchat only seems happy with it but I'm not omnipresent. It rolls again, I get it AGAIN and I'm in regen coma by the looks of it. I take out my oxy tank and gib myself. Raucous applause, obviously.

Admitting to the behavior that not only soured putting in any effort for this event, but the reason you were noted as well.

Krus gave me an admin note "Bad roleplayer" despite literally no roleplay besides the centcom announcements going on. This came off as immature and inappropriate in the same way his response to the criticism was. I am happy to see that he has since cooled off and changed the note to: "Took an admin ghost role and suicided immediately, very poor conduct. A more proper response would have been to not sign up for the role if you disagreed with the event. "
And maybe that's true! maybe that would've been more proper, I'm willing to hear the argument, but I disagree. When you hijack the round and arguably ruin it to the point where dchat is begging the next person who rolls it to suicide.... I don't think you should be shocked when they suicide. I'll take the point though, maybe it's okay when admins hijack a round and not okay when players hijack the event. That doesn't sound unreasonable. But I've never done something like that before; despite being the guy who thinks we should remove wiz, I don't suicide when I roll wiz cuz I think it would be wrong.

If it's true, why didn't you do it then?

So my point here is about the response to the response to the event. I think Krus deciding to basically AFK during the event is inappropriate and irresponsible. I think they were wildly immature and tactless in their dismissal of all criticisms and questions. I think as an admin they should have felt maybe a little compelled to answer questions beyond "I'm done talking about it." I don't think other admins would have behaved the same way. I'll grant that the majority of dchat was being abusive and insulting about the event, and it can be hard to see through that when its in regard to something you put forth that you think is good. That being said, I think admins should be responsible and accountable for their actions, and that means responding maturely to criticism ad questions even when they take the form of bile. There was NO response to any questions besides "I've done it before" and "I wasn't here for most of the round" and of course "I'm done talking about it."

You clearly saw I was not AFK, I was busy writing a lot of prompts from centcom, varedits, and talking to the people who got the role to encourage roleplay. I don't have four arms, there was only a limited amount of words I could produce in response to the limited information I could read with my two eyes. "I'm done talking about it," was the best response I could fathom, because, as per your own admittance, "the majority of dchat was being abusive and insulting about the event..."

Well, there was one kind of response. Krus dismissed some criticsm with questions like "So everything should be balanced and spoon-fed to you?" and I feel I should respond to that if only to take them seriously. If the centcom report saying not to engage had also said something like "It seems resilient to all forces attempting to stop it" etc, then maybe the crew wouldn't have taken it as the validhunting challenge that it seemed to be. Maybe it would've been a fun RP event. Instead, I don't think anyone had very much fun at all. Another admin mentioned that it seemed like it was only fun for the person who rolls it, and that sounds right to me. I mention this only to account for the one response Krus gave to criticism, and to point out that the response is similarly immature and unreasonable to their other behavior.

Actually I did, at first it was a report that was only printed to heads of staff to try and "contain the damaging PR", then full blown centcom reports advising the crew to avoid maintenance after the killer had created some ghosts to cycle the role. You can see the semblance of a structure here, no?

I'm not mad I got noted, I'm not hurt that we were treated poorly, I just think admins should be better than this.

So I should be better, even in the face of all the insults and immaturity and poor logic that you documented by your own admission. You and I are peers, I have to defend myself from your perspective here on equal footing. The most immature thing I've witnessed is the sense of entitlement in this complaint.

Gigapuddi420 wrote:As for the complaint itself I'm not really sure what you're looking for. You've stated in different parts of your long post that you aren't complaining about the fact the admin ran this event, you later pointed out you're not complaining about the note he give you when you suicide from the role offered to ghosts to do the event, you also stated you're not complaining about how you were treated either. So what, you're just generally disappointed with him? That level of criticism is probably better suited for his feedback, not a complaint forum designed for admin misconduct.
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Hulkamania
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Re: [Krusvik] Shikarego - Inappropriate Behavior and Note

Postby Hulkamania » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:53 pm #515445

We will not be upholding this complaint.

We do not require admins to hold any standard for events other than "Don't do too many of them and try to make them enjoyable for everyone involved."

Nothing about this particular event suggests that there was any bad faith or negligent behavior going on, simply that you and some others didn't like the event itself. I get that, they can't all be winners. The issue here that arises is that you took it upon yourself to take something an administrator was doing and purposefully try to end it on your own terms. No harm no foul, this was reversed using admin powers and the event continued. You then took it upon yourself AGAIN to try to stop the event, but to do so in a way that it couldn't be as easily undone as it was before.

We already have rule precedents that say you shouldn't go out of your way to kill admin mobs that aren't posing any threat. In the same light as this, you shouldn't go about ruining an entire rounds worth of events by accepting a ghost role and suiciding as the special role prepared for the event itself. You're not always going to like what an admin is doing and you're entitled to that opinion, however you are NOT entitled to become a vigilante and ruin the event for everyone outside usual IC means. Taking a ghost role and suiciding is already something noteworthy to begin with, let alone doing it twice in such a way that an entire event was ruined. You acted in bad faith against the administrator, so they gave you a note that indicates in future instances you could do it again.

There is nothing wrong with Krusvik's logic here and there was no instance of abuse as is the purpose of this forum. As such, this is denied.


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