[Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

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NewJackTheLing
 
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Byond Username: JackTheLing

[Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby NewJackTheLing » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:02 am #554007

Title:
[Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing - Possible Bias


Post Content:
When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Game
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: JackTheLing [Byond]
Admin: Doctor Brutality
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: Admins kept restarting round until the Round ID said : Null for some reason
Detailed summary:

Before anything..Half of the "Post Content" is handled in the subject >.>

As a Changeling me and another changeling successfully kidnapped and killed Warden after killing a detective and two security officers TOGETHER without getting caught. I swiftly turned into Warden and got myself implanted without anyone seeing my unimplanted state. My partner went to go on a killing spree while I did it. HoP let me into HoS's locker after I make up some BS about needing HoS's implant case to implant people I confirm are not changelings. I actually wanted it so I can give it to my changeling buddy when he needed to hide from security after his killing spree. Two people come in and subdue me. Despite my attempts at telling them HoP let me in. They say its because Warden was missing for a while and I had LAWYER SHOES ON (This is important for the bullshit to come later so please pay attention to that). After some yelling and arguing. The people of power decided that I was to be let go and those two subdued for some time, which I assume they got let go later. I run out of brig because everyone is edgy and yelling and debating if I am a changeling with guns out. With the lead reason being I had lawyer shoes on, I swear to you. Captain is convinced by these guys and attempts to get me to come to brig and never leave, not arrest me just quarantine me in brig. I see him by vault and offer to give him everything I had that belonged to security including my weapons and my Warden ID. Since I had some weapons and detective's body with his ID stashed anyways. Captain agrees I get demoted to assistant. The manhunt for me is over, I walk past the security officers and no one seems to care about me so I assume the Captain had tipped them off. My power goes out, I wake up critted and handcuffed over the gualg ship which is landing as I'm dying and it gibs me. I report this to Doctor and he ask was a changeling, which I say yes but no one had any proof. He said was I implanted. Which I replied I was. He proclaims he will talk to him but more than likely nothing will come out of it because "this player isn't the type to gib a player for no reason".

He claims the player says he saw me drag the warden out..IN MY LAWYER SUIT. He says the player also claims I broke into HoS's office locker. Which the HoP opened for me. I tell him I wasn't a lawyer and HoP opened the locker for me. He says everything checks out about my death to him and says he'll check the logs anyways. The server suddenly crashes which is also the reason I do not have the round ID. He says its getting to late for him and he is getting off and I should talk to the other admins.

I believe he said I dragged the Warden out with a lawyer suit on because I had lawyer shoes on, which he wouldn't have been able to tell unless he exaimed me. He said I had the suit on because it would look good when he told the admin, because at no time did I have a lawyer suit on during the round. The admin failed to catch this and said he sensed no bullshit.
The reason they said Warden had been missing for so long which was another minor reason they suspected me was because the Warden went afk for a while. Which is the reason we caught him so easily. Since we killed him swifty and took his ID swiftly this is the best reason to explain why they said Warden had been missing for a while.

TTLDR: Doctor Brutality ignores fishy claims in a player's story after he says "this player isn't the type to gib a player for no reason". Even after I showed the holes in it.



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pugie
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Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby pugie » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:25 am #554011

Hi, considering some of my responses to your ticket I felt a complaint was likely so I'll address this here now to try to clear things up and then go to sleep. If you have any other queries post them here I'll try to answer them ASAP, judging by how I responded to your ahelps I'd understand why you'd think I'm biased.

Dealing with lings is tricky, considering you were a ling and you got gibbed for being a ling I merely stated the fact that odds are nothing would come of this because you probably did something that gave you away to them, and because whenever I'm playing the guy who gibs you in question generally make good choices. This doesn't exempt them from being asked about it, the message I sent in quotations was there response to me asking them what happened between you and them.

I had no plans other than fully investigating logs and getting to the bottom of what happened because that's the best call for a situation like this, while I was diving through logs and getting an idea of what happened the server crashed. I wasn't going to come back but decided it would be wrong not to leave you with some answer so I rejoined the server just to tell you to ask another admin to handle this ahelp.

I wasn't going to make a decision on what happened based on the player, if I was then why would I join the server explicitly to tell you to seek another admin to answer your ahelp. If I was biased towards the other player that doesn't make sense.

You were killed while AFK, that sucks, it really does. You were clearly concerned about why you died so I felt giving feedback about what the result of the ticket would be was important to you, telling you odds are nothing would come of the ticket isn't a definite, it's just the situation which you ahelped meant that is what was most likely.

Ultimately, I don't feel I ignored what happened to you, I was actively looking into it going through game and attack logs and asking you and the guy who gibbed you what happened to get a clear picture before I was interrupted by a server crash, decided to hit the hay and explicitly told you to seek out another admin.

NewJackTheLing
 
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Byond Username: JackTheLing

Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby NewJackTheLing » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:34 am #554920

pugie wrote:Hi, considering some of my responses to your ticket I felt a complaint was likely so I'll address this here now to try to clear things up and then go to sleep. If you have any other queries post them here I'll try to answer them ASAP, judging by how I responded to your ahelps I'd understand why you'd think I'm biased.

Dealing with lings is tricky, considering you were a ling and you got gibbed for being a ling I merely stated the fact that odds are nothing would come of this because you probably did something that gave you away to them, and because whenever I'm playing the guy who gibs you in question generally make good choices. This doesn't exempt them from being asked about it, the message I sent in quotations was there response to me asking them what happened between you and them.

I had no plans other than fully investigating logs and getting to the bottom of what happened because that's the best call for a situation like this, while I was diving through logs and getting an idea of what happened the server crashed. I wasn't going to come back but decided it would be wrong not to leave you with some answer so I rejoined the server just to tell you to ask another admin to handle this ahelp.

I wasn't going to make a decision on what happened based on the player, if I was then why would I join the server explicitly to tell you to seek another admin to answer your ahelp. If I was biased towards the other player that doesn't make sense.

You were killed while AFK, that sucks, it really does. You were clearly concerned about why you died so I felt giving feedback about what the result of the ticket would be was important to you, telling you odds are nothing would come of the ticket isn't a definite, it's just the situation which you ahelped meant that is what was most likely.

Ultimately, I don't feel I ignored what happened to you, I was actively looking into it going through game and attack logs and asking you and the guy who gibbed you what happened to get a clear picture before I was interrupted by a server crash, decided to hit the hay and explicitly told you to seek out another admin.

Anyone with a brain could tell you were against me from the beginning. It was obvious your initial thought about the ticket was it was valid because you knew how a certain player operates. Post the adminhelp logs.

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bobbahbrown
 
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Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby bobbahbrown » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:48 am #554950

To clarify that this is available, DoctorBrutality should be able to use the recently merged replays to look back at this round and see what clothing you were wearing if relevant.

Oranges or MSO should be able to clarify how to use them if you so wished.

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Vekter
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Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby Vekter » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:15 am #554970

Last I checked, replays are slightly broken currently due to our GitHub repo being down.
Image
Image
Image


Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

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pugie
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Byond Username: Doctor Brutality

Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby pugie » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:57 am #554973

NewJackTheLing wrote:Anyone with a brain could tell you were against me from the beginning. It was obvious your initial thought about the ticket was it was valid because you knew how a certain player operates. Post the adminhelp logs.


I'm sorry you feel that way gamer, but I wasn't against you. My initial impressions were that he probably just assumed you were valid because no right minded player gibs someone in a shift with lings without assuming there are lings, but again I was checking this out fully before server crash, after which I realised I was tired & PM'd you to get another admin who was online to pursue it. You didn't do that though and seem more concerned that I'm biased, which I'm honestly not, you just got the wrong impression.

Spoiler:
JackTheLing: Some one spaced me while I was afk for seemingly no reason and gibbed me

DoctorBrutality: werent you a ling

JackTheLing: yes but no one had proof and when my power disconnected, I woke up critted, handcuffed in space with a spaceship landing on me that ultimately gibbed me. There were rumors that I was a ling but Captain demoted me from Warden to Assistant and that was the end of it he said, It wasn't a forcefull demotion either. So no one had any reason to kill me

DoctorBrutality: Did you mindshield yourself

JackTheLing: Yes

DoctorBrutality: Ok I'll ask the guy who did it but odds are nothing comes of it.

JackTheLing: What do you mean nothing will come of it, Captain handled it so he def had no permission from Captain to do it and he had no real proof that I was a ling besides a few people calling me it because I had lawyer shoes on

DoctorBrutality: Crew don't need permission to kill lings. As per rule 4 antags are valid to anyone and anyone is valid to antags with the exception of team antags.

JackTheLing: Wait so if they kill me without proof that I am a ling and I am a ling then that means its ok?

DoctorBrutality: No

DoctorBrutality: But the guy who gibbed you isnt the kind of player who gibs people for no reason

JackTheLing: That is some bias there dude. He had no real proof I was a ling

DoctorBrutality: "I saw lawyer attack him [Warden] with stun baton then drag him out, later he cameback and mindshielded himself with face covered, then broke into hos locker. Besides being sus I heard lots of stuff about lings before " It gave you away, you were suspicious and they made a call and the call was correct. This is just the sort of paranoia that comes wiht lings and seems pretty fair to me.

JackTheLing: I wasn't a lawyer and HoP let me into HoS's locker. I smell bullshit

DoctorBrutality: I don't but I'm going through all of logs anyways

Ok, in conclusion what happened was you were seen batoning the warden away and came back in an incomplete disguise. By your own admission there was suspicions of you being a ling & Captain ruled you as not a ling, but IC this doesn't matter as you were outed as a ling by your own admission of leaving laceup shoes on. This was a ling shift so your execution was valid, Captain's ruling doesn't factor into things this wasn't on our MRP server. I hope that clears things up.

Anyways, I'm not sure what proof I can offer to you that I'm not biased other than I was going through all logs and getting both sides of what happened before server crashed, I'd say I've argued my side well so there isn't much I can do to remedy your negative impressions of me .

NewJackTheLing
 
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:20 pm
Byond Username: JackTheLing

Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby NewJackTheLing » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:57 am #554987

pugie wrote:
NewJackTheLing wrote:Anyone with a brain could tell you were against me from the beginning. It was obvious your initial thought about the ticket was it was valid because you knew how a certain player operates. Post the adminhelp logs.


I'm sorry you feel that way gamer, but I wasn't against you. My initial impressions were that he probably just assumed you were valid because no right minded player gibs someone in a shift with lings without assuming there are lings, but again I was checking this out fully before server crash, after which I realised I was tired & PM'd you to get another admin who was online to pursue it. You didn't do that though and seem more concerned that I'm biased, which I'm honestly not, you just got the wrong impression.

Spoiler:
JackTheLing: Some one spaced me while I was afk for seemingly no reason and gibbed me

DoctorBrutality: werent you a ling

JackTheLing: yes but no one had proof and when my power disconnected, I woke up critted, handcuffed in space with a spaceship landing on me that ultimately gibbed me. There were rumors that I was a ling but Captain demoted me from Warden to Assistant and that was the end of it he said, It wasn't a forcefull demotion either. So no one had any reason to kill me

DoctorBrutality: Did you mindshield yourself

JackTheLing: Yes

DoctorBrutality: Ok I'll ask the guy who did it but odds are nothing comes of it.

JackTheLing: What do you mean nothing will come of it, Captain handled it so he def had no permission from Captain to do it and he had no real proof that I was a ling besides a few people calling me it because I had lawyer shoes on

DoctorBrutality: Crew don't need permission to kill lings. As per rule 4 antags are valid to anyone and anyone is valid to antags with the exception of team antags.

JackTheLing: Wait so if they kill me without proof that I am a ling and I am a ling then that means its ok?

DoctorBrutality: No

DoctorBrutality: But the guy who gibbed you isnt the kind of player who gibs people for no reason

JackTheLing: That is some bias there dude. He had no real proof I was a ling

DoctorBrutality: "I saw lawyer attack him [Warden] with stun baton then drag him out, later he cameback and mindshielded himself with face covered, then broke into hos locker. Besides being sus I heard lots of stuff about lings before " It gave you away, you were suspicious and they made a call and the call was correct. This is just the sort of paranoia that comes wiht lings and seems pretty fair to me.

JackTheLing: I wasn't a lawyer and HoP let me into HoS's locker. I smell bullshit

DoctorBrutality: I don't but I'm going through all of logs anyways

Ok, in conclusion what happened was you were seen batoning the warden away and came back in an incomplete disguise. By your own admission there was suspicions of you being a ling & Captain ruled you as not a ling, but IC this doesn't matter as you were outed as a ling by your own admission of leaving laceup shoes on. This was a ling shift so your execution was valid, Captain's ruling doesn't factor into things this wasn't on our MRP server. I hope that clears things up.

Anyways, I'm not sure what proof I can offer to you that I'm not biased other than I was going through all logs and getting both sides of what happened before server crashed, I'd say I've argued my side well so there isn't much I can do to remedy your negative impressions of me .


A pair of lace up shoes does not even come close to a proper outing as a changeling. How such a thing could even be used as a proper reason for killing an implanted Warden is beyond me. There was more proof and stronger proof that I was a Warden rather than a changeling. I can give you my entire killing history during that round

Killed a detective, dragged him to theatre where a paramedic opened the door and exposed me but not before I could get the absorb and run from the borg and security probably responding to the paramedic's call for help. Killed detective near security and dragged him into security maintenance where I called for another changeling to team up since I THOUGHT raiding security and killing Warden would be hard. ( think I killed another security officer with him but I am not sure so I wont add it but of course you guys have the logs ). Ran into security ready to kill prisoners, HoS, HoP, Captain, Other security officers, Warden and anything that moved. Was surprised to find the warden afk and one lonely prisoner, stunned him, dragged him into maintenance. Killed him and absorbed him with changeling buddy and after he goes on a killing spree. Get implanted as Warden with no one seeing me unimplanted and you know the rest.

If any other admin believes that the lawyer shoes gave me away, they can close this complaint with my permission, instantly. Since I'm actually not mad anymore and was pretty much just pissed because I lost a changeling round and how the admin responded to this

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Denton
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Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby Denton » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:44 pm #555002

bobbahbrown wrote:To clarify that this is available, DoctorBrutality should be able to use the recently merged replays to look back at this round and see what clothing you were wearing if relevant.

Oranges or MSO should be able to clarify how to use them if you so wished.

Replays are currently unusable because our repo is down (the system pulls icons from there).
Image

NewJackTheLing
 
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:20 pm
Byond Username: JackTheLing

Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby NewJackTheLing » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:58 pm #555067

Yeah whatever nerf this. Close this complaint

Archanial
 
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Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby Archanial » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:27 pm #555152

Hey, I am the player who gibbed you.
I saw you mindshield yourself as a warden and that ultimately gave you away.
The shoes and laser pointer were only used to prove it to the captain/hop/random officers in brig.

NewJackTheLing
 
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Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby NewJackTheLing » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:21 am #555242

Archanial wrote:Hey, I am the player who gibbed you.
I saw you mindshield yourself as a warden and that ultimately gave you away.
The shoes and laser pointer were only used to prove it to the captain/hop/random officers in brig.

Bullshit no you did not, no one was in the brig and I almost immediatly did it.

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bobbahbrown
 
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Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby bobbahbrown » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:30 am #555243

Denton wrote:
bobbahbrown wrote:To clarify that this is available, DoctorBrutality should be able to use the recently merged replays to look back at this round and see what clothing you were wearing if relevant.

Oranges or MSO should be able to clarify how to use them if you so wished.

Replays are currently unusable because our repo is down (the system pulls icons from there).


mso just said to edit the viewer so it points at the index of my fork or his fork as we have perfect copies of the tgstation repo

NewJackTheLing
 
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Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby NewJackTheLing » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:35 am #555332

No need, close the complaint

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Arianya
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Re: [Doctor Brutality] JackTheLing- Possibly bias judgement

Postby Arianya » Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:43 am #556471

Complaint retracted by complainant, closing this up.
Frequently playing as Aria Bollet on Bagil & Scary Terry

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