[FatalX1] Allowing blatant rulebreaking to go unpunished

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Bucovineanu
 
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[FatalX1] Allowing blatant rulebreaking to go unpunished

Postby Bucovineanu » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:50 pm #557946

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Terry
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: Bucovineanu, Ionel Ionescu
Admin: FatalX1
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: 0 (database broke nice) - Terry round that ended ~1:20 AM GMT+2, maybe something like 11:20 PM GMT
Image

Detailed summary: First and foremost, the original ahelp context:
About midround (20 minutes in), the silo got broken by xenos and every single protolathe therefore got linked. Since the silo is a round critical item, and no one else was responding (AI tried, but APC was destroyed and bolts were down), I attempted to break in to fix it (eventually a chemist did so anyways, after I RCD'd the door). First time around, Krokodil comes and threatens me with a stun baton to stop. I explain the situation to him multiple times, yet he ignores me. I go back to work and he stuns me. In response, I shove him, cuff him and drag him back to security, then proceed back on my way. After I finally open the vault and assess the damage (silo destroyed, APC broken), Krokodil shows up again (presumably after hearing me on the radio, because I loudly announced what I was doing and why, both the first time and the second time he showed up) and without even saying a word, without me even making a move, begins firing lethals against me.

So let's quickly go over what rules I strongly believe were broken:
1. Don't be a dick; Rule 1 of the main rules apply to security. The only exception is that security is generally considered to be armed with non-lethal methods to control a situation. Therefore, where reasonably possible, security is expected to use non-lethal methods first in a conflict before escalating to lethal methods.
1.1 Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 ban.
2. Escalation
2.0 Exceptions: Security is expected not to retaliate with random abuse or violence unless the person in question is otherwise eligible for execution. You can't kill or maim security for trying to arrest you for legitimate reasons.

Now I know what will be quoted as per escalation rules - namely
If you choose to retaliate with violence, you in turn have opened yourself up to violence. If you choose this route, do not expect admins to help you out if you die, even if you were not the original instigator.
. However, let's read further:
If you are concerned about being "kill baited" then consider calling security, using non lethal means to subdue your opponent, fleeing, or otherwise working things out (talking them down, getting your stolen items replaced, etc)
. This is precisely what I did in this situation. Shoving and cuffing, then returning them to their department is not "violence". It does not give them a license to kill someone, especially someone who is trying to fix round-critical machinery, especially not as security.

This is where we get to FatalX1, since as per rule 6 - admin decisions are final, and regardless of the result of my admin complaint, Krokodil is off the hook. I will post the last bit of my exchange, since it's the part most relevant, and the earlier parts are most likely not rule compliant. Of course, if the logs are recoverable from the round ending at about 1:20 AM GMT+2, then he can feel free to post the parts where I was - and I will openly admit this - being extremely derisive of Krokodil.


Admin PM from-FatalX1: Alright, I agree he was being super dentheaded because he didnt listen to you when you explained what you were doing but because you stunned and cuffed him I cant really give out any punishment, you make the choice to attack security you have to take the punishment, although he really shouldnt have killed you for it
PM to-Admins: This is broken moderation practice. I've been daybanned for less than this shit, just recently. I didn't escalate to killing, I didn't even escalate to punches, I de-escalated the issue by doing the shove and cuff, and heck, arguably, THE TIME HE LASERED THE SHIT OUT OF ME DOES NOT COUNT AS "IC RESPONSE" [correction: meant escalation]
Admin PM from-FatalX1: Your only recent ban is for a far different situation, and as I say, you made the choice to stun and cuff a security officer, in future maybe try to explain what you are doing without resorting to that
PM to-Admins: I did try to explain what I was doing
Admin PM from-FatalX1: Without stunning and cuffing him I mean
PM to-Admins: You obviously didn't read what I told you earlier - I told him MULTIPLE TIMES that that's what I was doing.
PM to-Admins: Why yes, let's let a [] greytide in red uniform ruin a round because shoving and cuffing would make him immune to ahelps
Admin PM from-FatalX1: Look, Ive spoken to the officer and dealt with it as I saw fit, he was excessive, you were excessive, why don't people try being nice to each other without resorting to stunning and cuffing and we wouldn't end up with these dumb situations
PM to-Admins: Look, this "you were excessive, he was excessive" line is BS. No, I wasn't excessive. I reacted as any normal person would react to a security officer grossly overstepping his bounds and preventing people from fixing a ROUND CRITICAL MACHINE.
PM to-Admins: If I shot at him, killed him, strangled him to death, spaced him, shuttlecrushed him, or stole everything he had and buckled him to a chair in maint you'd have a point
Admin PM from-FatalX1: Well Ive dealt with it as I saw fit, if you really disagree with my ruling so much you can make an admin complaint, I'm not arguing with you any longer about it



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Istoprocent1
 
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Re: [FatalX1] Allowing blatant rulebreaking to go unpunished

Postby Istoprocent1 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:44 pm #557955

My 2 cents on the matter:

1. You signed up to the station as a chaplain.
2. There was a situation at vault earlier, where security yelled for help over the comms.
3. You were breaking into the vault.
4. I asked you to cut it out and move along, you did not explain anything in depth there, but insisted into breaking into the vault.
5. I batoned you once and told you to move along.
6. You chose to shove me (not an issue on its own as it is just a 5 minute sentence)
7. You then proceeded to cuff me and thus rendering me helpless for simply telling you to leave the vault alone. Disabling security for no legitimate reason, when you were caught breaking into the vault is as antaggy as it gets, since I was at your mercy.
8. You dragged me around and then to the sec, where I was dragged further by some unknown guy, who broke into the armory. Were you two working together? Who knows.
9. You announced over the comms that you were gonna deconstruct the vault door, even though you were told to leave the secure area alone and were not an engineer yourself.
10. By this point it was somewhat clear that you were going to fight back and render security members helpless for doing their job, which is why you got shot with a laser gun into crit.
11. I was taking you to brig to get fixed and give you time, when you used the underhanded tactic of deathwhispering in order to succumb and prevent healing, after which you proceeded to ahelp.
12. FatalX1 was in the right to press IC button as it was your actions that lead to the outcome, which were further solidified when you went into OOC and started declaring that you were going to open a complaint. This means that you were seeking OOC revenge for an IC situation.

Bucovineanu wrote:So let's quickly go over what rules I strongly believe were broken:
1. Don't be a dick; Rule 1 of the main rules apply to security. The only exception is that security is generally considered to be armed with non-lethal methods to control a situation. Therefore, where reasonably possible, security is expected to use non-lethal methods first in a conflict before escalating to lethal methods.


Methods went as following - talking, no result, 1 stun, you went and griefed an officer for doing their job, lethals.

Bucovineanu wrote:1.1 Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 ban.


You were not killed, you succumbed by deathwhispering. As well as it not being random at all, you were breaking into a high risk area and did render security helpless for doing their job in the previous contact.

Bucovineanu wrote:2. Escalation
2.0 Exceptions: Security is expected not to retaliate with random abuse or violence unless the person in question is otherwise eligible for execution. You can't kill or maim security for trying to arrest you for legitimate reasons.


Moot, you were acting like an antag and were detained in the most appropriate way. Would a flashbang been better? Probably, but I used one when I was being dragged around cuffed and getting the living shit beaten out of me in the hallway. Should I have spent time letting you dance around the indestructible nuke? No. I shot you til you went horizontal as I had reasonable grounds to believe that you were going to keep acting like an antag and render security helpless or worse when given the chance, since normal crew members do not render security helpless for poor IC reason.

All and all, if you want to have a conversation with the security - DO NOT RESIST. You got all the time in the world to explain your situation, when the cuffs are on you. If you choose to resist, then things escalate and you have nobody else to blame, but yourself.

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Timonk
 
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Re: [FatalX1] Allowing blatant rulebreaking to go unpunished

Postby Timonk » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:52 pm #557958

Istoprocent1 wrote:My 2 cents on the matter:

1. You signed up to the station as a [b]chaplain[/b

What you are saying is that only engineers can deal with repairing the station no matter what?

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Re: [FatalX1] Allowing blatant rulebreaking to go unpunished

Postby Istoprocent1 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:55 pm #557959

Timonk wrote:
Istoprocent1 wrote:My 2 cents on the matter:

1. You signed up to the station as a [b]chaplain[/b

What you are saying is that only engineers can deal with repairing the station no matter what?


Obviously not, but a hyper eager non-engineer raises eyebrows. The same way assistants can hunt valids, but should they be going out of their way to do it? No.

I am saying that it was by the book, guy griefed security, guy gets dunked, guy succumbed, guy tried banbaiting, admin said no, guy gets mad and starts blasting OOC how he is going to make a complaint for not getting what he wanted.

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Re: [FatalX1] Allowing blatant rulebreaking to go unpunished

Postby Fatal » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:05 am #558036

Alright, let's clear a few things up

As Istoprocent mentioned, you succumbed / death whispered, and as the logs weren't working for that round I can't go back and look at how much health you had when this happened

As mentioned also, the vault, is a high security area, yes, you were trying to fix something, but I wouldn't really call the vault ore silo a "round critical item", it just means people can't get their gamer gear or mechs really

Upon the first attempt at arresting you, you fought back and stunned, cuffed, and dragged Isto back to the brig, as far as I'm concerned, if you pick this route of resisting arrest and assaulting security for a valid arrest, this does open you up for other actions

Should he have used lethals on you for being in the vault a second time? No, I explained this to both Isto and yourself. but I decided the best course of action was to take no action other than simply talking to Isto about it

I made my decision and stand by it

As I said in the ahelps to you, you made that choice to resist arrest and fight back, if you had explained what you were doing without resorting to that, this would have gone a different way, but you made that choice

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Re: [FatalX1] Allowing blatant rulebreaking to go unpunished

Postby Bucovineanu » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:55 am #558048

Deconstruction time
Istoprocent1 wrote:My 2 cents on the matter:

1. You signed up to the station as a chaplain.

Effectively irrelevant
Istoprocent1 wrote:2. There was a situation at vault earlier, where security yelled for help over the comms.

Which doesn't stop you from assessing the situation on the ground, or from hearing circa 5 departments screaming about having their lathes unlinked
Istoprocent1 wrote:3. You were breaking into the vault.
4. I asked you to cut it out and move along, you did not explain anything in depth there, but insisted into breaking into the vault.

Just like you apparently didn't read the multiple calls on common that lathes were delinked, you didn't read what I was explaining to you either. It's a shame logs are gone, since they'd clearly show that.
Istoprocent1 wrote:5. I batoned you once and told you to move along.
6. You chose to shove me (not an issue on its own as it is just a 5 minute sentence)
7. You then proceeded to cuff me and thus rendering me helpless for simply telling you to leave the vault alone. Disabling security for no legitimate reason, when you were caught breaking into the vault is as antaggy as it gets, since I was at your mercy.

5 through 7, the events themselves are true. No legitimate reason though? No, and I'll maintain this.
Istoprocent1 wrote:8. You dragged me around and then to the sec, where I was dragged further by some unknown guy, who broke into the armory. Were you two working together? Who knows.

Honestly considering the amount of security I saw around there, I'm quite surprised you weren't quickly uncuffed, especially since I got batonned before you got pulled away. This is likely a sign of the general level of apathy within security that's become quite common, at least on Terry (wouldn't be the first time anyone got murdered/arrested by nonsec/etc in the brig while the warden, hos and at least 3 other seccies watch and ignore the situation). As for the person who dragged you, all I remember is a security officer.
Istoprocent wrote:9. You announced over the comms that you were gonna deconstruct the vault door, even though you were told to leave the secure area alone and were not an engineer yourself.

I also announced that I was doing that the first time around, and the only one who told me to «leave the secure area alone» was you. Last time I checked security does is not above - let's go back to 1 - the chaplain in the chain of command, since we're not on Manuel.
Istoprocent wrote:10. By this point it was somewhat clear that you were going to fight back and render security members helpless for doing their job, which is why you got shot with a laser gun into crit.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but read this as "I got robusted and I wanted revenge". You're generalizing yourself as "security members """doing their job""""", which is hardly true. As for the laser gun, I'm going to be very surprised if you managed to lose your disabler and were unable to get another one, since a disabler makes someone go horizontal in one less shot than a laser gun.
Istoprocent wrote:11. I was taking you to brig to get fixed and give you time, when you used the underhanded tactic of deathwhispering in order to succumb and prevent healing, after which you proceeded to ahelp.

This is the one single thing I will admit as me having done wrong, however in my experience this 'taking to the brig to fix' is rarely the case after being lethaled by an officer.
Istoprocent wrote:12. FatalX1 was in the right to press IC button as it was your actions that lead to the outcome, which were further solidified when you went into OOC and started declaring that you were going to open a complaint. This means that you were seeking OOC revenge for an IC situation.

Establishing a vague IC causality for escalating directly to lethals does not make it an IC issue. And yes, I openly declared I was going to open a complaint, because as far as I see it, this is as clear cut as it could get. This "OOC revenge" accusation is flawed, it's not "OOC revenge" to ask for, at the very least, escalation rules to be respected.

Istoprocent wrote:Methods went as following - talking, no result, 1 stun, you went and griefed an officer for doing their job, lethals.

If cuffing and being taken to security is griefing, then boy, does a lot of that happen during an average round.

Istoprocent wrote:You were not killed, you succumbed by deathwhispering. As well as it not being random at all, you were breaking into a high risk area and did render security helpless for doing their job in the previous contact.

Correct, I was not killed. I transcribed the rules precisely as they are written. "Rendering security helpless" is not an executable offence.

Istoprocent wrote:Moot, you were acting like an antag and were detained in the most appropriate way. Would a flashbang been better? Probably, but I used one when I was being dragged around cuffed and getting the living shit beaten out of me in the hallway. Should I have spent time letting you dance around the indestructible nuke? No. I shot you til you went horizontal as I had reasonable grounds to believe that you were going to keep acting like an antag and render security helpless or worse when given the chance, since normal crew members do not render security helpless for poor IC reason.

Right, forgot about how antags radio their actions to the crew and offer security officers to watch as they do the actions they claim they are going to do (again, it's sad that the logs are dead so that I can't pull up the exact message I wrote telling you that you can watch me do exactly what I claimed I would, only for you to absolutely ignore it). Most appropiate way... if you're worried about me juking out of there, you (presumably) had a disabler, a flash (though you might have had reason to believe I would put my welding mask on to prevent that from working) and pepper spray. Furthermore, you are stretching the situation to somehow mean that because I reacted as such to your actions, that it not only extends to the entirety of security, but to any possible situation ("when given the chance") based off a single interaction, and this serves as your justification for "reasonable grounds".

Istoprocent wrote:All and all, if you want to have a conversation with the security - DO NOT RESIST. You got all the time in the world to explain your situation, when the cuffs are on you. If you choose to resist, then things escalate and you have nobody else to blame, but yourself.

I tried having a conversation with security. It was going nowhere, and the only result was getting stun battoned. I'm sorry that you ended up on the wrong side of being cuffed and helpless when being a security officer should mean unopposed powertripping.

Istoprocent wrote:I am saying that it was by the book, guy griefed security, guy gets dunked, guy succumbed, guy tried banbaiting, admin said no, guy gets mad and starts blasting OOC how he is going to make a complaint for not getting what he wanted.

Security griefs, security gets dunked, security comes back and griefs some more, gets away with it. I can do it too.

FatalX1 wrote:As mentioned also, the vault, is a high security area, yes, you were trying to fix something, but I wouldn't really call the vault ore silo a "round critical item", it just means people can't get their gamer gear or mechs really

I'm going to attack this notion of it not being round critical. It means that procuring ammunition is more difficult, making additional guns is only possible through cargo, lacking personal stashes (which are rare) engineers won't have mats to fix anything. But sure, just "gamer gear and mechs".

FatalX1 wrote:Upon the first attempt at arresting you, you fought back and stunned, cuffed, and dragged Isto back to the brig, as far as I'm concerned, if you pick this route of resisting arrest and assaulting security for a valid arrest, this does open you up for other actions

Should he have used lethals on you for being in the vault a second time? No, I explained this to both Isto and yourself. but I decided the best course of action was to take no action other than simply talking to Isto about it

I made my decision and stand by it

As I said in the ahelps to you, you made that choice to resist arrest and fight back, if you had explained what you were doing without resorting to that, this would have gone a different way, but you made that choice

And thus my admin complaint, since "as far as you're concerned" isn't how escalation rules work.

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Re: [FatalX1] Allowing blatant rulebreaking to go unpunished

Postby Istoprocent1 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:05 am #558062

Bucovineanu wrote:Just like you apparently didn't read the multiple calls on common that lathes were delinked, you didn't read what I was explaining to you either. It's a shame logs are gone, since they'd clearly show that.


Was busy getting dragged around with tons of assistants following and messing me up with me being unable to do anything as I was still cuffed.

Bucovineanu wrote:5 through 7, the events themselves are true. No legitimate reason though? No, and I'll maintain this.


You had no legitimate reason to instigate, since everything that happened was within reason. You were asked to vacate the premises and after you refused, you were stunned once with a baton. At that point you were free to leave, even though you were caught breaking into the vault. You then decided to do your thing.

Stunning an officer repeatedly, using lethal or restricted weapons on them, disrupting the arrests or sentences of dangerous criminals, or damaging the brig, are examples of behaivour that may make you valid for security under Rule 4.

Being cuffed is worse than being repeatedly stunned, since the duration is much longer and doesn't require spending charges or constant clicking by the perpetrator.

Bucovineanu wrote:Honestly considering the amount of security I saw around there, I'm quite surprised you weren't quickly uncuffed, especially since I got batonned before you got pulled away. This is likely a sign of the general level of apathy within security that's become quite common, at least on Terry (wouldn't be the first time anyone got murdered/arrested by nonsec/etc in the brig while the warden, hos and at least 3 other seccies watch and ignore the situation). As for the person who dragged you, all I remember is a security officer.


The brig was full of newfriends. I wouldn't talk smack about Terry. Back to the point, I was grabbed by an unknown assistant who was running around the brig with me, he had looted the armory before (i recall him having a riot shield), he took me outside the brig as newfriends were unable to stop him. Dragged me around a solid few minutes with other assistants ganging up on me and messing me up in the hallways. At some point somebody freed me from the cuffs and I headed back to the brig, got a laser rifle. Then you advertised your second attempt of breaking into vault over the comms and I came to check it out. By that time you were already in the vault with the door gone and everything taken apart.

Bucovineanu wrote:I'm sorry, but I can't help but read this as "I got robusted and I wanted revenge". You're generalizing yourself as "security members """doing their job""""", which is hardly true. As for the laser gun, I'm going to be very surprised if you managed to lose your disabler and were unable to get another one, since a disabler makes someone go horizontal in one less shot than a laser gun.


No, it was about catching a crew member who was clearly acting like an antag by fighting security and breaking into high risk areas. Whether you wanted to "fix X" or "grab some donuts" is irrelevant. You could have always contacted an engineer and call it a day.

There is an expression for when somebody is talking about something and it reflects their mentality, sadly it escapes me at the moment. You wanted to get revenge for being robusted, when you were denied, you tried to get revenge again but this time on the person who denied you your revenge, which is why we are all gathered here in this petty complaint.

Bucovineanu wrote:This is the one single thing I will admit as me having done wrong, however in my experience this 'taking to the brig to fix' is rarely the case after being lethaled by an officer.


Welcome to Terry. Not every horizontalizing ends with you taking a trip to the crematorium or space. Sometimes it is required to brig people who are actively resisting or outright acting like an antag.
Succumbing and then ahelping is acting in bad faith, if not outright ban baiting, and has been discussed here with the general consensus being that unless you have been hidden or in a similar situation, you should not succumb and ahelp.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=24408&hilit=succumb

You got a full sentence off from the deathwhisper, which meant you were not in the immediate threat of dying. I cannot recall the sentence, but it was rage.

Bucovineanu wrote:Establishing a vague IC causality for escalating directly to lethals does not make it an IC issue. And yes, I openly declared I was going to open a complaint, because as far as I see it, this is as clear cut as it could get. This "OOC revenge" accusation is flawed, it's not "OOC revenge" to ask for, at the very least, escalation rules to be respected.


Read above. If you choose to act like an antag, then you will be treated as such and instead of finishing you off right then and there I was erring on the side of caution by taking you to the brig.

Rest of your comeback is just you trying to downplay your involvement. You would have been better off by just relaxing for a few hours.

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Re: [FatalX1] Allowing blatant rulebreaking to go unpunished

Postby Arianya » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:26 am #558065

To note, the logs for round 0s do exist but don't get parsed. They're available here (only visible to administrators)

https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/terry/ ... 3/round-0/
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Re: [FatalX1] Allowing blatant rulebreaking to go unpunished

Postby Fatal » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:55 am #558068

Alright despite showing as round 0, Arianya informed me the logs do exist

This is where you succumbed, you had quite a lot of health left

[2020-04-23 21:44:39.295] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) Has whispered his final words while in hard critical with -54.3 points of health! (Vault (84, 162, 2))

Heres the conversation between you both prior to the first break, or during

Spoiler:
[2020-04-23 21:34:39.614] SAY: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) "Leave the vault alone" (Storage Wing (85, 157, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:34:45.121] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "it's depowered nigger" (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:34:49.661] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "and delinked from everyone" (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:06.321] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "you can always shoot me in the back if I do anything nasty" (Storage Wing (84, 157, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:28.093] SAY: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) "Vault is good, stop" (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:31.272] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "then" (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:31.775] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "why" (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:32.503] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "is it" (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:33.882] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "delinked" (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:34.522] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "gfrom" (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:35.133] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "all" (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:36.537] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "the" (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:37.367] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "lathes" (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:38.549] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "nigger" (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:38.030] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "you" (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:40.050] SAY: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) "You don't need to break into it for no reason" (Storage Wing (85, 157, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:46.964] SAY: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) "Now fuck off." (Storage Wing (85, 157, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:57.084] SAY: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) "ionel traitor vault" (Storage Wing (85, 157, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:58.393] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "fucking" (Storage Wing (85, 156, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:59.010] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "retard" (Storage Wing (85, 156, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:01.424] SAY: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) "IONEL TRAITOR VAULT!!" (Storage Wing (85, 155, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:04.048] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "KROKODIL RETARD VAULT" (Storage Wing (85, 154, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:07.193] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "KROKODIL RETARD VAULT" (Storage Wing (85, 152, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:09.523] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "COME WATCH" (Storage Wing (86, 151, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:18.304] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "VAULT IS DELINKED FROM ALL THE FUCKING LATHES" (Storage Wing (86, 146, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:22.117] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "AND HE WON'T LET ME GO IN" (Storage Wing (86, 145, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:22.860] SAY: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) "TRAITOR VAULT NEED BACKUP" (Storage Wing (87, 145, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:27.352] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "COMING SEC" (Central Primary Hallway (95, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:29.515] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "TO SHOVE" (Central Primary Hallway (98, 145, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:31.700] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "RETARD KROKODIL" (Central Primary Hallway (99, 145, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:32.112] SAY: BrotherBeyond/(Jason Fraser) "RETARD KROKODIL VAULT" (Central Primary Hallway (88, 141, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:34.800] SAY: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) "BACK WHERE HE BELONGS" (Central Primary Hallway (100, 145, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:36.488] SAY: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) "HoP shoot this faggot" (Central Primary Hallway (103, 146, 2))


This pretty much goes on for much longer but it's more of the same retarded yelling

This is the first incidents attack logs where you attempted to get into the vault for the first time

Spoiler:
[2020-04-23 21:35:20.608] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) has attacked [Vault] with the pocket crowbar (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:23.117] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has stunned Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) (NEWHP: 100) (Storage Wing (84, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:47.984] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) has shoved Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 93.4) (Storage Wing (85, 156, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:49.355] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) has kicks Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 93.4) (Storage Wing (85, 156, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:49.356] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) has shoved Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 93.4) (Storage Wing (85, 156, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:51.929] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) has grabbed Istoprocent/(Krokodil) passive grab (NEWHP: 93.4) (Storage Wing (85, 156, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:53.965] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) has grabbed Istoprocent/(Krokodil) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 93.4) (Storage Wing (85, 156, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:35:55.844] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) has handcuffed Istoprocent/(Krokodil) (NEWHP: 93.4) (Storage Wing (85, 156, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:36:00.328] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) has grabbed Istoprocent/(Krokodil) passive grab (NEWHP: 93.4) (Storage Wing (85, 155, 2))


After this, and the previous yelling on the radio, Isto was attacked by a few other people

Spoiler:
This is what happened inside the brig

[2020-04-23 21:37:34.116] ATTACK: Hamboy/(Cash Mccune) has grabbed Istoprocent/(Krokodil) passive grab (NEWHP: 93.4) (Brig (111, 165, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:37:52.774] ATTACK: PastelTesseract/(Graham Laborde) has stunned Istoprocent/(Krokodil) (NEWHP: 93.4) (Brig (99, 168, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:37:52.885] ATTACK: PastelTesseract/(Graham Laborde) has attacked Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 87.9) (Brig (99, 168, 2))

[2020-04-23 21:37:55.095] ATTACK: DaThompi/(Pulcherrima Volant) has grabbed Istoprocent/(Krokodil) passive grab (NEWHP: 87.9) (Brig (98, 167, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:02.905] ATTACK: DaThompi/(Pulcherrima Volant) has stripped the cable restraints off Istoprocent/(Krokodil) (NEWHP: 87.9) (Brig (98, 167, 2))

And after

[2020-04-23 21:38:15.216] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Fore Primary Hallway (Fore Primary Hallway (108, 158, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:15.963] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Hamboy/(Cash Mccune) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 82.5) (Fore Primary Hallway (107, 155, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:16.104] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Fore Primary Hallway (Fore Primary Hallway (107, 154, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:16.731] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Fore Primary Hallway (Fore Primary Hallway (108, 152, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:17.168] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Laz0r/(Thomas Laser) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 79.3) (Fore Primary Hallway (107, 150, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:18.624] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (109, 145, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:20.022] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (114, 143, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:20.777] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (117, 143, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:21.600] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (121, 143, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:23.024] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (125, 140, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:23.689] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Hamboy/(Cash Mccune) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 82.5) (Central Primary Hallway (125, 136, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:24.340] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at Hamboy/(Cash Mccune) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 82.5) (Central Primary Hallway (126, 134, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:25.146] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (126, 130, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:25.367] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Hamboy/(Cash Mccune) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 82.5) (Central Primary Hallway (126, 129, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:25.787] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (126, 128, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:25.892] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Hamboy/(Cash Mccune) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 82.5) (Central Primary Hallway (126, 128, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:26.024] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (126, 132, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:26.426] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (125, 131, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:27.663] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (125, 126, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:28.362] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at Hamboy/(Cash Mccune) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 82.5) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 125, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:28.363] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Hamboy/(Cash Mccune) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 82.5) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 125, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:28.861] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has shoved Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (126, 125, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:29.084] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (126, 123, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:30.337] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has fired at Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 123, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:30.888] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has fired at Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 123, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:31.062] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 123, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:31.400] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has fired at Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 123, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:31.640] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has fired at Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (125, 125, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:31.670] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 123, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:32.295] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has fired at Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 123, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:32.743] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 123, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:33.093] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has fired at Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 123, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:33.297] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has fired at Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (125, 126, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:33.326] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 123, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:33.358] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (125, 126, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:33.744] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has fired at Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 123, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:33.820] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has fired at Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (125, 126, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:33.986] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (125, 126, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:34.057] ATTACK: FFakka/(Darius Moberly) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 123, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:34.524] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has fired at Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (125, 126, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:34.592] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (125, 126, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:35.163] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has fired at Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (125, 126, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:35.272] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has shot Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 87.9) (Central Primary Hallway (126, 126, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:35.964] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has attacked Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with disabler (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 84.9) (Central Primary Hallway (126, 126, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:37.087] ATTACK: Thebleh/(Andrew Drake) has grabbed Istoprocent/(Krokodil) passive grab (NEWHP: 84.9) (Central Primary Hallway (126, 128, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:37.290] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has attacked Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with disabler (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 81.9) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 126, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:45.076] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has kicked Istoprocent/(Krokodil) (NEWHP: 73.8) (Central Primary Hallway (126, 142, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:47.518] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has kicked Istoprocent/(Krokodil) (NEWHP: 65.7) (Central Primary Hallway (123, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:38:49.289] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has kicked Istoprocent/(Krokodil) (NEWHP: 63.9) (Central Primary Hallway (123, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:02.798] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has kicked Istoprocent/(Krokodil) (NEWHP: 56.8) (Central Primary Hallway (108, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:04.171] ATTACK: Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) has kicked Istoprocent/(Krokodil) (NEWHP: 53.8) (Central Primary Hallway (108, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:09.474] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has stunned Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) (NEWHP: 81.5) (Central Primary Hallway (107, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:09.734] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 71.5) (Central Primary Hallway (107, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:10.521] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 61.5) (Central Primary Hallway (107, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:12.794] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 42) (Central Primary Hallway (107, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:13.849] ATTACK: ChickenCrack/(Shane Fitzgerald) has stunned Istoprocent/(Krokodil) (NEWHP: 53.8) (Central Primary Hallway (106, 143, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:14.019] ATTACK: ChickenCrack/(Shane Fitzgerald) has attacked Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 47.8) (Central Primary Hallway (106, 143, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:14.388] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has stunned Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) (NEWHP: 32) (Central Primary Hallway (107, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:14.559] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 22) (Central Primary Hallway (107, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:15.849] ATTACK: ChickenCrack/(Shane Fitzgerald) has attacked Istoprocent/(Krokodil) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 41.8) (Central Primary Hallway (106, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:15.920] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked ChickenCrack/(Shane Fitzgerald) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 74.7) (Central Primary Hallway (106, 144, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:26.667] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has stunned Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) (NEWHP: 4) (Central Primary Hallway (107, 145, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:28.426] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has grabbed Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) passive grab (NEWHP: 4) (Central Primary Hallway (107, 145, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:31.477] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has stunned Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) (NEWHP: 4) (Fore Primary Hallway (106, 149, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:31.646] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -6) (Fore Primary Hallway (106, 149, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:32.722] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -16) (Fore Primary Hallway (106, 151, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:33.801] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -26) (Fore Primary Hallway (106, 153, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:35.110] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has stunned Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) (NEWHP: -26) (Fore Primary Hallway (106, 156, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:35.114] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -33.5) (Fore Primary Hallway (106, 156, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:37.229] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -43.5) (Fore Primary Hallway (107, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:38.779] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has stunned Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) (NEWHP: -44.2) (Fore Primary Hallway (109, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:38.784] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -54.2) (Fore Primary Hallway (109, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:40.312] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -110) (Fore Primary Hallway (110, 160, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:39:41.575] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has attacked Banzai_Samurai/(Jack King) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -120) (Brig (110, 162, 2))


After this I can honestly understand Isto jumping straight to using lethal force when the crew are mobbing him for the earlier shit


And this is where you got shot in the vault

Spoiler:
[2020-04-23 21:44:09.934] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Storage Wing (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:10.032] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) with the laser (NEWHP: 91) (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:10.541] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Storage Wing (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:10.675] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) with the laser (NEWHP: 71) (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:11.124] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Storage Wing (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:11.277] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) with the laser (NEWHP: 51) (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:11.860] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Storage Wing (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:12.012] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) with the laser (NEWHP: 31) (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:12.465] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Storage Wing (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:13.018] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Storage Wing (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:13.600] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Storage Wing (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:14.366] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [station self-destruct terminal] with the laser from Storage Wing (Storage Wing (84, 159, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:14.999] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Vault (Vault (84, 160, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:15.057] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) with the laser (NEWHP: 11) (Vault (84, 160, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:15.632] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Vault (Vault (84, 160, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:15.791] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) with the laser (NEWHP: -9) (Vault (84, 160, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:16.811] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) with the laser from Vault (NEWHP: -29) (Vault (83, 161, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:17.344] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Vault (Vault (83, 161, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:17.346] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) with the laser (NEWHP: -29) (Vault (83, 161, 2))

The red one is where he stopped firing

[2020-04-23 21:44:27.036] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has grabbed Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) passive grab (NEWHP: -51.7) (Vault (84, 161, 2))
[2020-04-23 21:44:28.366] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has grabbed Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -51.7) (Vault (84, 161, 2))

[2020-04-23 21:44:39.295] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) Has whispered his final words while in hard critical with -54.3 points of health! (Vault (84, 162, 2))


Heres the kicker that I really am annoyed at now, looking at this

[2020-04-23 21:44:27.332] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #4: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu): Krokodil is a fucking retard and kills me for going into the vault to fix it

[2020-04-23 21:44:39.295] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) Has whispered his final words while in hard critical with -54.3 points of health! (Vault (84, 162, 2))

You adminhelped it 12 seconds before succumbing, at this point you were NOT dead

And here's the entire conversation between us because you didn't have it all

Spoiler:
[2020-04-23 21:45:56.764] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey)->Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu): Did you have any prior interactions before that?
[2020-04-23 21:46:30.330] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): yes, exact same situation, he came and stun batonned me for trying to go into the vault to fix the bloody thing after every single protolathe on the station was unlinked. All he said was "vault is fine"
[2020-04-23 21:47:03.411] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey)->Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu): Eh Il see what he has to say
[2020-04-23 21:47:31.982] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): I'll mention I shoved and cuffed him for it, because it's retarded to stop someone from fixing a round vital resource because you're a shitbrain shitsec. I went back to work and he lethaled me.
[2020-04-23 21:48:03.359] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): I'm sorry if I'm a bit hard on him, but there isn't any other way to describe a fuckwit who prevents others from fixing station critical infrastructure.
[2020-04-23 21:49:06.916] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): Not only that, but does it WITH LETHAL FORCE. If he even as much as attempts as defending his actions as "he didn't say so" you are free to look at the chat logs where I told him about 4 times about it before shove and cuffing, and then another 10 times afterwards.
[2020-04-23 21:49:56.805] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): He screamed out "traitor" the moment I shoved and cuffed too, like a little fucking shitter, and kept screaming for me to be shot as I was dragging him screaming back to security
[2020-04-23 21:50:44.322] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey)->Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu): Yeah I heard most of that
[2020-04-23 21:59:10.956] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey)->Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu): Alright, I agree he was being super dentheaded because he didnt listen to you when you explained what you were doing but because you stunned and cuffed him I cant really give out any punishment, you make the choice to attack security you have to take the punishment, although he really shouldnt have killed you for it
[2020-04-23 22:01:12.867] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): This is broken moderation practice. I've been daybanned for less than this shit, just recently. I didn't escalate to killing, I didn't even escalate to punches, I de-escalated the issue by doing the shove and cuff, and heck, arguably, THE TIME HE LASERED THE SHIT OUT OF ME DOES NOT COUNT AS "IC RESPONSE"
[2020-04-23 22:02:47.933] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey)->Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu): Your only recent ban is for a far different situation, and as I say, you made the choice to stun and cuff a security officer, in future maybe try to explain what you are doing without resorting to that
[2020-04-23 22:03:02.592] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): I did try to explain what I was doing
[2020-04-23 22:03:17.604] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey)->Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu): Without stunning and cuffing him I mean
[2020-04-23 22:03:20.308] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): You obviously didn't read what I told you earlier - I told him MULTIPLE TIMES that that's what I was doing.
[2020-04-23 22:03:51.588] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): Why yes, let's let a retard greytide in red uniform ruin a round because shoving and cuffing would make him immune to ahelps
[2020-04-23 22:04:06.883] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): And again, how does this cover him LASERING ME TO DEATH
[2020-04-23 22:04:19.697] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): I wasn't even moving when he PULLED OUT A LASER GUN AND SHOT ME TO DEATH
[2020-04-23 22:04:32.246] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): I will keep underlining this because it is I N D E F E N S I B L E
[2020-04-23 22:05:11.966] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey)->Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu): Look, Ive spoken to the officer and dealt with it as I saw fit, he was excessive, you were excessive, why don't people try being nice to each other without resorting to stunning and cuffing and we wouldn't end up with these dumb situations
[2020-04-23 22:06:21.264] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): Look, this "you were excessive, he was excessive" line is bullshit. No, I wasn't excessive. I reacted as any normal person would react to a security officer grossly overstepping his bounds and preventing people from fixing a ROUND CRITICAL MACHINE.
[2020-04-23 22:06:47.898] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu)->FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey): If I shot at him, killed him, strangled him to death, spaced him, shuttlecrushed him, stole everything he had and buckled him to a chair in maint you'd have a point
[2020-04-23 22:06:54.443] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey)->Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu): Well Ive dealt with it as I saw fit, if you really disagree with my ruling so much you can make an admin complaint, I'm not arguing with you any longer about it


I'm not going to post the discussion between me and Isto here, I know the headmins will look at it regardless, but it would just cause more arguments between the two players involved, unless Isto wants me to post them

I still stand by my decision after looking at all the logs, especially after you ahelped you were being killed BEFORE SUCCUMBING after the offending player only shot you to -29 HP

Also apologies if the editing is a bit of a mess, I still don't have notepad++ installed after reinstalling everything

Bucovineanu
 
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Re: [FatalX1] Allowing blatant rulebreaking to go unpunished

Postby Bucovineanu » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:51 pm #558081

Thanks for posting (part) of the logs, Fatal.

I'll reply to Isto on the portions where I'm disambiguating, rather than just restating things I've already said.
Istoprocent wrote:Was busy getting dragged around with tons of assistants following and messing me up with me being unable to do anything as I was still cuffed.

The radio calls for lathes being delinked occurred before you got cuffed. Further radio logs will attest to that.
Istoprocent wrote:Stunning an officer repeatedly, using lethal or restricted weapons on them, disrupting the arrests or sentences of dangerous criminals, or damaging the brig, are examples of behaivour that may make you valid for security under Rule 4.

Being cuffed is worse than being repeatedly stunned, since the duration is much longer and doesn't require spending charges or constant clicking by the perpetrator.

The context of the precedent there i.e. rule 4 itself, is «acting like an antag». Rather, in this situation I was being prevented from fixing a - I maintain - round critical machine, which I wasn't going to allow. To put it another way, in the best case you were «forcing the valid» so to speak, since you weren't acknowledging at all what I or other people were saying.

Istoprocent wrote:The brig was full of newfriends. I wouldn't talk smack about Terry. Back to the point, I was grabbed by an unknown assistant who was running around the brig with me, he had looted the armory before (i recall him having a riot shield), he took me outside the brig as newfriends were unable to stop him. Dragged me around a solid few minutes with other assistants ganging up on me and messing me up in the hallways.

Then that's sad, but ultimately not my fault. The only way to prevent that would have been to uncuff you myself, which I did consider, but knowing you, and out of general experience with security, it would have resulted in me being batonned then and there. Hence why I figured it would've been a better idea to just let you be uncuffed by your colleagues.

Istoprocent wrote:At some point somebody freed me from the cuffs and I headed back to the brig, got a laser rifle. Then you advertised your second attempt of breaking into vault over the comms and I came to check it out. By that time you were already in the vault with the door gone and everything taken apart.

As multiple people said on radio (before the first time you showed up), the silo was already broken. Maybe I should have had also radio'd the AI telling me the APC was also broken as well to clarify things for you. Also, you still haven't clarified whether or not you were still in the possession of your disabler, pepper spray, or flash, the first of which is in particular more effective than a laser gun (unless your intent is to kill).

Istoprocent wrote:No, it was about catching a crew member who was clearly acting like an antag by fighting security and breaking into high risk areas. Whether you wanted to "fix X" or "grab some donuts" is irrelevant. You could have always contacted an engineer and call it a day.

Funny, because earlier you said:
>What you are saying is that only engineers can deal with repairing the station no matter what?
>Obviously not, but a hyper eager non-engineer raises eyebrows. The same way assistants can hunt valids, but should they be going out of their way to do it? No.
Why am I mentioning this? Because I was hardly "going out of my way". That entire round I was performing cell sacrifices with my own protolathe, which was completely stopped my lathe (and every other lathe) got unlinked. Did you know that at the time? No, of course not, but neither were you interested in any more details rather than blindly enforcing no entry to the vault.

Istoprocent wrote:There is an expression for when somebody is talking about something and it reflects their mentality, sadly it escapes me at the moment. You wanted to get revenge for being robusted, when you were denied, you tried to get revenge again but this time on the person who denied you your revenge, which is why we are all gathered here in this petty complaint.

You're talking about hypocrisy, and I don't think you're really in a position to try to use that against me. I want the rules to be enforced. I'll remind you the admin who "denied me my revenge" explicitly told me he won't argue with me any further and if I disagree with his decision (which I do), I should file an admin complaint - hence this thread:
Admin PM from-FatalX1: Well Ive dealt with it as I saw fit, if you really disagree with my ruling so much you can make an admin complaint, I'm not arguing with you any longer about it


Istoprocent wrote:Welcome to Terry. Not every horizontalizing ends with you taking a trip to the crematorium or space.

You're right, in my experience on Terry, the average sec-induced horizontaling rather ends up with you being shoved in a locker in re-education.

Istoprocent wrote:Succumbing and then ahelping is acting in bad faith, if not outright ban baiting, and has been discussed here with the general consensus being that unless you have been hidden or in a similar situation, you should not succumb and ahelp.

Bucovineanu wrote:This is the one single thing I will admit as me having done wrong


Now for Fatal

Fatal wrote:Heres the kicker that I really am annoyed at now, looking at this

[2020-04-23 21:44:27.332] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #4: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu): Krokodil is a fucking retard and kills me for going into the vault to fix it

[2020-04-23 21:44:39.295] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) Has whispered his final words while in hard critical with -54.3 points of health! (Vault (84, 162, 2))

You adminhelped it 12 seconds before succumbing, at this point you were NOT dead

-snip-

I still stand by my decision after looking at all the logs, especially after you ahelped you were being killed BEFORE SUCCUMBING after the offending player only shot you to -29 HP

First of all
Bucovineanu wrote:This is the one single thing I will admit as me having done wrong

Second of all, the offending action - escalating to lethals - had already been undertaken.

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Coconutwarrior97
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Re: [FatalX1] Allowing blatant rulebreaking to go unpunished

Postby Coconutwarrior97 » Wed May 06, 2020 11:58 pm #560889

We don't regard FatalX1 as having mishandled anything here.

Bucovineanu tried to make it clear to Istoprocent what his intentions were several times, and FatalX1 brought this up with Isto,
[2020-04-23 21:58:09.925] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: FatalX1/(Ashlyn Northey)->Istoprocent/(Krokodil): Because he stunned you and cuffed you Im just going to leave this here but we both know he didn't do any of this for "no reason", try to actually listen to people when they talk to you in future, the guy has a LOT of messages involving explaining to you what he was doing in the vault

Likewise death whispering right after ahelping your death is pretty dumb,
[2020-04-23 21:44:27.332] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #4: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu): Krokodil is a fucking retard and kills me for going into the vault to fix it
[2020-04-23 21:44:39.295] ATTACK: Bucovineanu/(Ionel Ionescu) Has whispered his final words while in hard critical with -54.3 points of health! (Vault (84, 162, 2))

Its a messy situation which we feel was handled appropriately.

Headmin votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Do not uphold.
Phuzzlodgik: Do not uphold.
TWATICUS: Do not uphold.


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