[gamerandyeahmick] Yulice - Clarification of Roleplay Rule 6

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Yulice
Joined: Fri May 07, 2021 5:18 am
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[gamerandyeahmick] Yulice - Clarification of Roleplay Rule 6

Post by Yulice » #629183

Manuel, Round 178020

Yulice, Kaiden Marcotte

gamerandyeamick

178020

I had antag gear that was looted from Icebox, was not on the manifest as I spawned as a ghost role. Came onto the station because I heard the shuttle call (was unaware that it was a green call so it wouldn't be around for ages), and was spotted by the HoS. HoS proceeded to wordlessly chase me while blasting disabler fire at me before finally subduing me. I'd made no aggressive action and had simply tried to avoid being shot. Once dragged to the brig, I was fullstripped, given a short, curt interrogation, and summarily executed.
Given that there was nothing stated about me actually being any sort of antagonist at all, and the only info that was purveyed to me was that I was a syndicate agent merely for possessing gear, the rather quick and brutal execution and body spacing seemed egregious under RP rule 6.
Given the circumstances, I was a little heated already and the admins likewise curt responses ticked me off a little, so I lashed out some. Probably should've kept a better lid on it, and I'd like to apologize here for it.
The fact that the admin said I baited my own execution, though, seems spotty at best and I'd like a headmin to look into it.

I'll be posting logs from https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/178020 , and they've been edited to remove everything but the interrogation.
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[2022-02-08 01:20:36.735] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "Ow" (Central Primary Hallway (128,136,4))
[2022-02-08 01:20:46.884] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "Ow" (Central Primary Hallway (128,136,4))
[2022-02-08 01:21:17.175] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "well well well" (Brig (120,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:21:21.186] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "look what we got here" (Brig (120,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:22:02.670] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "now, friend" (Brig (119,171,4))
[2022-02-08 01:22:06.343] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "you best listen to me" (Brig (119,171,4))
[2022-02-08 01:22:25.649] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "got myself this syndie" (Brig (107,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:22:44.281] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "Agent, speak" (Brig (120,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:22:47.520] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "Hi." (Brig (119,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:22:56.896] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "well, you wish for a lawyer?" (Brig (120,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:23:03.060] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "I guess?>" (Brig (119,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:23:03.118] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "your gonna fuckin need one" (Brig (120,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:23:12.018] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "Lawyer, the syndie wants you" (Brig (120,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:23:33.770] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "now, simply put" (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:23:41.218] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "you answer my questions and live" (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:23:42.515] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "or die" (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:23:50.349] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "rather simple, really" (Brig (106,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:23:52.387] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "yes" (Brig (106,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:23:58.816] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "You're gonna feel really silly." (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:24:12.926] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "alright, who is your employer?" (Brig (106,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:24:19.211] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "I used to work for Nanotrasen" (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:24:53.772] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "I don;t know" (Brig (106,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:03.731] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "who is your current employer" (Brig (106,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:05.220] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "You're going to feel really silly." (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:06.977] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "Nobody." (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:26.400] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "ok, so your found with a syndie ID, a syndie suit and syndie gear for no reason?" (Brig (106,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:32.369] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "Yes." (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:37.291] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "Ow" (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:39.149] WHISPER: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "Ow." (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:41.082] EMOTE: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:58.676] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "the syndie chose to not co-operate with questioning" (Brig (106,170,4))
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GamerAndYeahMick
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Re: [gamerandyeahmick] Yulice - Clarification of Roleplay Rule 6

Post by GamerAndYeahMick » #629191

The head admins may as well close this complaint as it is entirely a waste of administrative time and fueled by anger

You took a hermit role. Had a full set of syndicate gear and an operative ID, were not on the crew manifest and got killed by the HOS, in the ticket with the HOS he gave very good reasoning as to why he assumed you were bad. You have no idea what administrative actions were taken against the other player because we do not disclose that so it does not matter how you feel about what happened to the hos in relation to the roleplay rules. Your ticket was resolved without further telling you because once I offered you a revive out of good will (even when I felt you had caused the situation somewhat at least partially) then you started raging and demanding the other player be banned.

Here is the ahelp:
[2022-02-08 01:25:51.583] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #9: Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte): Just got field executed fnr
[2022-02-08 01:26:16.864] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman)->Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte): For no reason?
[2022-02-08 01:26:33.993] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte)->GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman): Complied with questioning and answered truthfully and was just gatted.
[2022-02-08 01:27:05.413] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman)->Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte): When you say for no reason, do you mean they had no reason at all, or they didn't have a good one
[2022-02-08 01:27:39.368] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte)->GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman): He assumed me to be a syndicate agent (I had looted icebox gear) and when I answered truthfully he wordlessly pulleed out a makarov and shot me to death
[2022-02-08 01:28:04.066] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman)->Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte): Can you give me the name please
[2022-02-08 01:28:09.308] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte)->GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman): Jack Anton
[2022-02-08 01:35:16.212] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman)->Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte): Did you have a disguised id name on (at this point I was confused by them not being on crew manifest console **they were a hermit**)
[2022-02-08 01:35:23.858] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte)->GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman): No?
[2022-02-08 01:35:57.235] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman)->Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte): You didn't have a syndicate ID?
[2022-02-08 01:36:15.667] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte)->GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman): I did but it had my actual name on it, and he also seems to have just discovered a shaft miner ID
* I was reading over the players explanation and felt sympathetic to a degree with him but felt he could have been more careful at this point*
[2022-02-08 01:38:57.038] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman)->Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte): The issue is here that you are wearing full syndicate gear and the player obviously got baited by that
[2022-02-08 01:39:16.540] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte)->GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman): Yeah, except he had me fully stripped and cuffed and then proceeded to field execute me when he didn't like my truthful answer. (your truthful answer is very short and not helpful to the hos as outlined below)
[2022-02-08 01:39:40.600] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte)->GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman): While using another piece of contraband as HoS, I might add. He's also just looted all the stuff I had and is now using it himself.
[2022-02-08 01:39:42.532] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman)->Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte): Yeah because he was baited into thinking you were a nuclear operative (should have just said syndicate to avoid confusion here)
[2022-02-08 01:39:52.383] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte)->GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman): If I was a nuclear operative I WOULD'VE EXPLODED
[2022-02-08 01:41:11.976] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte)->GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman): You don't detain nuke ops, he assumed I was a traitor. And even if I was a traitor he literally executed me in cold blood after having me safely detained.
[2022-02-08 01:42:38.233] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman)->Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte): I can offer you a revive but you are partly to blame for the sequences of events that occured (I see the player is mad and was slightly wronged even if they are at fault and extend an olive branch)
[2022-02-08 01:43:32.335] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte)->GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman): Are you for real? So it's okay for security to just field execute people they SUSPECT of being traitors, even if they've done literally nothing beyond owning contraband, without notifying anyone? And then using said contraband freely?
[2022-02-08 01:44:45.810] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman)->Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte): you are making conclusions that are unreasonable based on the statements I made, you are partly responsible because you're running around in gear that screams valid, that's all. do you want the revive or not
[2022-02-08 01:45:22.442] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte)->GamerAndYeahMick/(John Burgerman): Little bit fucking late at this point innit. I'd rather have Jack get fucking busted for this because he's done tons of this shit in the past. (I see they are just angry and anything I can say will not placate them unless I ban the player and give them the outcome they desire so I resolve at this point)

Also your defense to the HOS was atrocious,
[2022-02-08 01:24:12.926] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "alright, who is your employer?" (Brig (106,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:24:19.211] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "I used to work for Nanotrasen" (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:03.731] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "who is your current employer" (Brig (106,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:05.220] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "You're going to feel really silly." (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:06.977] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "Nobody." (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:26.400] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "ok, so your found with a syndie ID, a syndie suit and syndie gear for no reason?" (Brig (106,170,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:32.369] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "Yes." (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:37.291] SAY: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "Ow" (Brig (106,169,4))
[2022-02-08 01:25:39.149] WHISPER: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) "Ow." (Brig (106,169,4))
You get magdumped a bit here
[2022-02-08 01:25:41.088] ATTACK: yulice/(Kaiden Marcotte) has died (BRUTE: 200, BURN: 0, TOX: 0, OXY: 0, CLONE: 0) (Brig (106,169,4))

If you really cannot see how you are somewhat at fault for the events that transpired then you need to calm down and take a reality check, and you seem to be mad because you seem to think the player wasn't punished for a violation of any rules, which you have no evidence for and which may not be true. Have a nice day :)

EDIT: Logs used
https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/manuel ... attack.log
https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/manuel ... 0/game.log
A parsed version is available without any sensitive information here:
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... 0/game.txt
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... attack.txt
EDIT 2: I missed some logs on accident
EDIT 3: Called crew manifest comms console cause I was tired
Last edited by GamerAndYeahMick on Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CMDR_Gungnir
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Re: [gamerandyeahmick] Yulice - Clarification of Roleplay Rule 6

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #629218

Wouldn't Anton's behaviour have run afoul of Roleplay Rule 6, though?
RP Rule 6: Deal with the bad guys in proportion to their crime(s). wrote: When dealing with antagonists deal with them proportionally to their crime(s). Someone who stole the captain's medal shouldn't be immediately lasered to death, but lethal injecting someone who has killed four people is understandable. If an antagonist shows a willingness to engage with you, do your best to reciprocate it, though leniency as to their punishment is still in your court.
Execution is somewhat excessive for simply not being on the manifest, and possession of Contraband, as a Nukie would've just detonated themselves before it got that far.
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GamerAndYeahMick
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Re: [gamerandyeahmick] Yulice - Clarification of Roleplay Rule 6

Post by GamerAndYeahMick » #629276

It does not matter if the other player broke the rules, we don't reveal normally what action we take against the other player and nor do we offer ban requests which this complaint reads as, a thinly veiled "this admin didn't instantly ban this player so I want head admins to ban them instead". In regards to operatives the only way to truly find out is by execution, and then they explode, I believe the logs may show the other player realise they made a mistake in this regard, but I didn't say anything about not punishing the other player or the other player not being foul of the rules, I just mentioned that yulice is partly to blame with their own behaviour and they were deceptive during questioning by both the player and me in the ahelps.
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Re: [gamerandyeahmick] Yulice - Clarification of Roleplay Rule 6

Post by RaveRadbury » #629894

We will not be upholding this complaint. GamerAndYeahMick did a satisfactory job given the circumstances.

In review of the evidence we are incredibly disappointed to see the ahelp conduct demonstrated by Yulice, specifically the dishonesty about their participation in the events. This poisoned the situation and made any potential rulings likely to run afoul of ban baiting.

Additionally, CoolDude22333's behavior is another entry in a chronic pattern of player execution which he has been spoken to about multiple times.

You are both lucky to not have bans from this encounter, you certainly deserved them.

Headmin Votes:
RaveRadbury: Do Not Uphold
Dragomagol: Do Not Uphold
NamelessFairy: Do Not Uphold
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