[Harricross] SmallBlue - Clown fuckery admin nod-dery

[TheSmallBlue]

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord):
Manuel
Byond account and character name OR Discord name:
SmallBlue, BL-00-M
Admin:
Harricross
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE:
193562
Detailed summary:
I got a verbal warning from Harriscross when I had done absolutely nothing wrong.
Nearly the end of the shift, Harriscorss started asking me questions about an encounter I had with the clown way earlier in the round. I was confused and nervous because, you know, bwoink, but I told them my recollections to the best of my ability, only to be told the following:

I've gotten "in the future" messages before. This is what can only be described as a verbal warning. "Don't fuck up again, kiddo".
Problem is, I did nothing wrong. Here's my recollection of events supported by logs.


I joined the game near 6 minutes from round start. I decide to go assistant and get myself borged in robotics, which happens successfully.
I switch to the mediborg module because from being in the lobby thinking what to choose I noticed there were no medics, and I made my way into medical.

Once I arrived there, the CMO asked me to open my cover so that they could upgrade me with a defib.

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[2022-11-02 04:02:02.071] SAY: 04:02:02.071] SAY: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) "cover" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,93,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:02:03.368] EMOTE: 04:02:03.368] EMOTE: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) points at the defibrillator (Medbay Treatment Center (158,92,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:02:09.410] SAY: 04:02:09.410] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "gimme a sec" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:02:18.249] SAY: 04:02:18.249] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "there" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:02:28.418] SAY: 04:02:28.418] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "these newfangled covers unlocks take a while" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,92,2)) 

The CMO realizes that to put the defib in me they have to first take out the cell the defib already has.

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[2022-11-02 04:02:29.491] SAY: 04:02:29.491] SAY: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) "oh do I have to-" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,93,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:02:41.621] SAY: 04:02:41.621] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "take out the battery from the defib" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:02:42.930] SAY: 04:02:42.930] SAY: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) "I need a screwdriver first" (Medbay Treatment Center (157,92,2)) 

The CMO then realizes that the clown is trying to enter chemistry via asking the ai for access, and promptly kicks them out.

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[2022-11-02 04:02:11.539] SAY: 04:02:11.539] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "HEY AI" (Medical (153,95,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:02:15.448] SAY: 04:02:15.448] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "CAN YOU LET ME IN" (Medical (153,95,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:02:20.531] SAY: 04:02:20.531] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "DO IT" (Medical (153,95,2)) 

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[2022-11-02 04:02:48.611] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) stun attacked Dopamiin[DC]/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 100)  (Medical (154,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:49.461] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) kicks Dopamiin[DC]/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 100)  (Medical (154,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:49.461] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) shoved Dopamiin[DC]/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) (NEWHP: 100)  (Medical (154,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:52.483] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with telescopic baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 90)  (Medical (153,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:54.081] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) stun attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 90)  (Medical (153,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:55.077] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) shoved Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) (NEWHP: 90)  (Medical (153,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:56.431] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) grabbed Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) passive grab (NEWHP: 90)  (Medical (152,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:59.481] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) stun attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 90)  (Medical (160,95,2))

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[2022-11-02 04:03:01.528] SAY: 04:03:01.528] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "OH GOD I FELL ASLPEE" (Medbay Lobby (160,98,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:03:06.628] SAY: 04:03:06.628] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "aslpee" (Medical (157,94,2))

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[2022-11-02 04:03:03.017] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) slipped on the [Fartsniff McBlastasser (Clown)] (Medbay Lobby (160,99,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:11.213] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) shaken DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) (NEWHP: 100)  (Medical (157,94,2))

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[2022-11-02 04:03:11.765] SAY: 04:03:11.765] SAY: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) "Anyways" (Medical (156,95,2)) 

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[2022-11-02 04:03:12.092] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) shaken DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) (NEWHP: 100)  (Medical (157,94,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:15.283] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) shaken DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) (NEWHP: 100)  (Medical (157,94,2))

I was present thoughout all this yet I did not act since I saw no harm here. Yes, the stun baton attack does take out some HP, but stun-battoning isn't harm. To me it was apparent the CMO's intention wasn't to harm the clown.
CMO then tells me,

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[2022-11-02 04:03:29.599] SAY: 04:03:29.599] SAY: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) "Grab a screwdriver from somewhere and i'll fit you up with that, or I guess ask robo to install it" (Medical (157,95,2)) 

So I go off to search for a screwdriver. First I try EVA, with no luck, then I go to tool storage, grab an electrical toolbox, then head back to robotics.
While I'm away, an actual fight breaks out between the clown and CMO (Assisted by the mime). Keep in mind, I was away while this was happening. I had no idea this was going on.
Here are some extracts of it

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[2022-11-02 04:03:46.157] ATTACK: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) stun attacked DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 100)  (Medical (159,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:46.217] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) slipped on the [Fartsniff McBlastasser (Clown)] (Medical (159,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:49.256] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with scalpel (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 60)  (Medical (158,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:50.066] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with scalpel (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 50)  (Medical (158,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:50.871] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with scalpel (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 40)  (Medical (158,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:51.688] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with scalpel (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 30)  (Medical (158,95,2))
...
[2022-11-02 04:04:15.124] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) thrown Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) grab from tile in Medical (158,94,2) towards tile at Medbay Lobby (158,98,2) (NEWHP: -32.1)  (Medical (158,94,2))  (end)

When I come back, toolbox dragging behind, I find the clown in crit in the medical lobby, so I grab them and bring them into medical, then I begin healing them.

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[2022-11-02 04:04:25.554] ATTACK: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) grabbed Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) passive grab (NEWHP: -35.4)  (Medical (159,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:42.568] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attempted to handcuff Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) (NEWHP: -36.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (161,91,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:45.525] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) handcuffed Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) (NEWHP: -36.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (161,91,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:53.311] ATTACK: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) operated on Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) (OPERATION TYPE: Tend Wounds (Bruises, Basic)) (TARGET AREA: chest) (NEWHP: -36.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2))

The AI asks me what happened to the clown, I say

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[2022-11-02 04:04:49.277] SAY: 04:04:49.277] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "I left just as the clown got like this im afraid" (Medbay Treatment Center (161,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:49.277] SAY: 04:04:49.277] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) (binary) "I left just as the clown got like this im afraid" (Medbay Treatment Center (161,90,2)) 

While I'm healing them, the clown starts saying the following:

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[2022-11-02 04:05:34.499] SAY: 04:05:34.499] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "I DIDNT EVNE DO ANYTHING" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,91,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:05:38.482] SAY: 04:05:38.482] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "evne" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:05:38.748] SAY: 04:05:38.748] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "YOU TOOK MY INSTRUMENT" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,91,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:05:42.269] SAY: 04:05:42.269] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "AND I TRIED TO GET IT BACK" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,91,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:05:46.473] SAY: 04:05:46.473] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "AND YOU FUCKING BEAT ME INTO CRIT!" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,91,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:05:49.269] SAY: 04:05:49.269] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "THATS NOT FUNNY AT ALL!" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,91,2))
[2022-11-02 04:05:55.381] SAY: 04:05:55.381] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "BECAUSE YOU WERE BEATING ME!!!" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,91,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:06:17.689] SAY: 04:06:17.689] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "BORG I DO NOT CONSENT TO THIS HARM" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,91,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:06:21.407] SAY: 04:06:21.407] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "RESCUE ME" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,91,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:06:25.173] SAY: 04:06:25.173] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "you're not being harmed at the moment" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:06:28.375] SAY: 04:06:28.375] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "THEYRE GONNA" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,91,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:06:40.562] SAY: 04:06:40.562] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "if harm does happen i'll intervene" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:06:46.516] SAY: 04:06:46.516] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "NO BORG LAW TWO FREE ME" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,91,2)) 

The clown starts saying that they were being actively harmed, this straight up wasn't true. The last attack log involving the clown was the one I showed above:

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[2022-11-02 04:04:53.311] ATTACK: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) operated on Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) (OPERATION TYPE: Tend Wounds (Bruises, Basic)) (TARGET AREA: chest) (NEWHP: -36.7)  (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2))

Me healing them, at 04:04:53. The next attack log involving the clown happens at 04:06:53, and is by the detective checking their stuff to see if they find something incriminating.

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[2022-11-02 04:06:53.727] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) shoved Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100)  (Medbay Treatment Center (161,91,2))
[2022-11-02 04:07:01.089] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) shoved Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) (NEWHP: 100)  (Medbay Treatment Center (162,88,2))
[2022-11-02 04:07:02.408] ATTACK: Thranos/(Laura Winters) grabbed Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Medbay Treatment Center (161,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:07:04.089] ATTACK: Thranos/(Laura Winters) stun attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with the police baton (NEWHP: 100)  (Medbay Treatment Center (159,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:07:07.646] ATTACK: Thranos/(Laura Winters) is stripping Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) of Giggles von Honkerton. (Medbay Treatment Center (159,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:07:07.948] ATTACK: Thranos/(Laura Winters) is pickpocketing Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) of the bike horn (left) (Medbay Treatment Center (159,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:07:08.236] ATTACK: Thranos/(Laura Winters) is pickpocketing Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) of the banana peel (right) (Medbay Treatment Center (159,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:07:11.272] ATTACK: Thranos/(Laura Winters) has stripped Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) of Giggles von Honkerton. (Medbay Treatment Center (159,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:07:11.572] ATTACK: Thranos/(Laura Winters) has stripped Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) of the bike horn. (Medbay Treatment Center (159,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:07:11.873] ATTACK: Thranos/(Laura Winters) has stripped Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) of the banana peel. (Medbay Treatment Center (159,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:07:14.797] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) shoved Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) (NEWHP: 100)  (Medbay Treatment Center (160,91,2))

This is NOT harm of ANY kind. I had NO REASON to intervene.
Asides from the law 2, of course, which was hard to follow through when the det was actively moving the clown so that they couldn't break out of their cuffs (not that they tried).
The det finds a weird chem inside the clown's bag I believe, and I offer to open chemistry so that they may access the chemmaster to see what it is.

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[2022-11-02 04:07:35.419] SAY: 04:07:35.419] SAY: Thranos/(Laura Winters) "I need to analyze some chems." (Medbay Treatment Center (157,88,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:07:47.354] SAY: 04:07:47.354] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "best i have is a health analyzer" (Medbay Treatment Center (156,88,2)) 
[2022-11-02 04:07:51.536] SAY: 04:07:51.536] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "ill guide you to the chemmaster" (Medbay Treatment Center (156,88,2)) 

They accept, they grab the cuffed clown and drag them into chemistry while they check the insides of the container. Shortly afterwards I notice they seem to want to be let out, so I do so.
I had another encounter with the clown in medical, but I believe this encounter is the one the admin Harricross was talking about in those private messages.

After recounting all this, it's clear that I deserve no warning at all. Harriscross states that "If I see it happen, please make sure that humans being harmed are taken away from their aggressors instead of keeping them in their presence", when A: I didn't know who the aggressor was, and B: I IMMEDIATELY grabbed the clown and took them to Medical, a secluded spot, away from whoever was harming them.
I can only assume the ONLY REASON why I was Admin PM'd in the first place was because a salty Fartsniff McBlastasser ahelped me and other people.

Now you might be wondering "Dude this is only a verbal warning, why make a complaint about it", and the short answer is yes, I got a verbal warning this time, but who knows what others might get in the future if Harricross doesn't investigate a situation fully before giving out warnings. I'd like to believe I played like a model cyborg, helping a newbie cyborg the ropes, correctly handling and stopping human harm (at one point in the round I saw the HoP trying to murder the mime and I did my damn best to stop that from happening, which can be seen in the logs if anyone's interested), protecting the crew from spiders, all to get told that "In the Future Make Sure To Do a Thing That You Did Do".
Basically, I see this as a lack of attention and investigation from Harricross's side, and a refusal to: 1. realize that they understood a situation incorrectly, and 2. admit that they were wrong about something.

I don't believe I have access to the entire ticket that I had with Harricross, I'd like for it to be posted if possible. Also, I totally made this post while being preeetty mad, but I do believe there is reason for complaint here.

EDIT: Almost forgot. Logs taken from:
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... /game.html
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... attack.txt

[Harricross]

Hi, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

In regards to claims of lack of attention and investigation, this was not the case. I was making a judgement based off of logs and information given to me by the other players involved. It's extremely hard to decipher if you were paying attention or were in proximity other than looking at raw logs while asking the players in that situation if you were present or not. For reference, these logs were manually crossed together to formulate a basis for what happened during that particular scenario using timestamps and locations.

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[2022-11-02 04:02:09.410] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "gimme a sec" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:18.249] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "there" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:28.418] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "these newfangled covers unlocks take a while" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,92,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:41.621] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "take out the battery from the defib" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:52.483] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with telescopic baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 90)  (Medical (153,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:54.081] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) stun attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 90)  (Medical (153,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:55.077] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) shoved Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) (NEWHP: 90)  (Medical (153,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:56.431] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) grabbed Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) passive grab (NEWHP: 90)  (Medical (152,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:59.481] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) stun attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 90)  (Medical (160,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:06.628] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "aslpee" (Medical (157,94,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:49.256] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with scalpel (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 60)  (Medical (158,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:50.066] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with scalpel (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 50)  (Medical (158,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:50.871] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with scalpel (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 40)  (Medical (158,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:51.688] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with scalpel (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 30)  (Medical (158,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:52.751] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with scalpel (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 20)  (Medical (159,96,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:53.632] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with scalpel (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 12.5)  (Medical (159,96,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:52.668] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) stun attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 30)  (Medical (158,94,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:54.879] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with telescopic baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -7.5)  (Medical (158,94,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:55.745] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with telescopic baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -17.2)  (Medical (158,94,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:56.975] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) grabbed Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) passive grab (NEWHP: -17.2)  (Medical (158,94,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:57.979] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) grabbed Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -16.8)  (Medical (158,94,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:59.095] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) attempted to neck grab Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) neck grab (NEWHP: -16.8)  (Medical (158,94,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:02.174] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) attempted to neck grab Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) neck grab (NEWHP: -16.1)  (Medical (158,94,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:04.684] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) attempted to neck grab Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) neck grab (NEWHP: -15.7)  (Medical (158,94,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:04.846] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) grabbed Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) neck grab (NEWHP: -15.7)  (Medical (158,94,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:08.274] ATTACK: RamenCup/(Mute Point) thrown Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) grab from tile in Medical (158,96,2) towards tile at Medbay Lobby (158,100,2) (NEWHP: -15)  
[2022-11-02 04:04:08.276] ATTACK: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) suffered: Joint Dislocation | Damage: 15 (rolled 42/44.3127) | WB: 5 (Medical (158,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:08.279] ATTACK: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) crashed into RamenCup/(Mute Point) (NEWHP: 81)  (Medical (158,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:25.554] ATTACK: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) grabbed Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) passive grab (NEWHP: -35.4)  (Medical (159,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:37.959] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "christ" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:49.277] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "I left just as the clown got like this im afraid" (Medbay Treatment Center (161,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:49.277] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) (binary) "I left just as the clown got like this im afraid" (Medbay Treatment Center (161,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:05:38.482] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "evne" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:06:25.173] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "you're not being harmed at the moment" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:06:40.562] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "if harm does happen i'll intervene" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2))
[2022-11-02 04:07:47.354] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "best i have is a health analyzer" (Medbay Treatment Center (156,88,2))
[2022-11-02 04:07:51.536] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "ill guide you to the chemmaster" (Medbay Treatment Center (156,88,2))
[2022-11-02 04:09:25.116] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "prisoner dead in perma" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2))
[2022-11-02 04:09:25.116] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) (binary) "Prisoner dead in perma" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2))

According to these logs, you were present within Medbay proper for a majority of the altercation. The only abnormality is the clown being thrown by the mime towards the intended coordinates (158,100,2) which never went through as it was stopped by the mime's body, keeping the location to (158,95,2). (Yes he did body throw the clown into himself.)

In this picture, your last action/say before the clown started being beat to a pulp was at (158,91,2) Time: 04:02:41 marked by the light blue square (because you're SmallBlue) and your position when you intervened and grabbed the clown was at (158,94,2) Time: 04:04:25 marked by the dark blue square.

The area where the clown was being beaten up initially started at (153,95,2) Time: 04:02:52 with key points of the fight being covered in a black square.



This lines up with accounts given to me by the three other people involved in this case.

I was present thoughout all this yet I did not act since I saw no harm here. Yes, the stun baton attack does take out some HP, but stun-battoning isn't harm. To me it was apparent the CMO's intention wasn't to harm the clown.

This isn't true: 1. An Asimov silicon cannot intentionally harm a human, even if a minor amount of harm would prevent a major amount of harm.
Stun batons (telescopic baton in this case) have two functions, a stun mode and a harm mode (hence the term harm baton which is commonly used throughout TG). It's clearly shown that the CMO in question did in fact bonk them for 10 health using the harm function of their telescopic baton and swapped to their stun attack instead after the initial hit. This is still human harm in terms of Asimov.

It would be incredibly nitpicky for me to note/ban you over this, which is why I left it as a verbal warning.

1. realize that they understood a situation incorrectly, and 2. admit that they were wrong about something.

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[2022-11-02 05:46:36.032] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Harricross/(Maddox Quinn)->SmallBlue/(BL-00-M): Okay, a lot was happening at once - so I don't really fault you for not gathering the whole picture. In the future if you see it happen, please make sure that humans being harmed are taken away from their aggressors instead of keeping them in their presence. Other than that, thank you for your detailed response.
[2022-11-02 05:47:54.394] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(BL-00-M) SmallBlue[DC]/(BL-00-M)

You had a little over a full minute to ask if we could continue this next round, which I would have gladly accepted. You logged in multiple times after the new round started (Round ID: 193566) and eventually joined as an observer. I was completely available for a little over half the round before I took a midround antagonist roll. (Your IP/sensitive information has been omitted below.)

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Line 101: [2022-11-02 05:48:29.289] ACCESS: Mob Login: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) was assigned to a /mob/dead/new_player
	Line 101: [2022-11-02 05:48:29.289] ACCESS: Mob Login: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) was assigned to a /mob/dead/new_player
	Line 108: [2022-11-02 05:48:29.414] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 108: [2022-11-02 05:48:29.414] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 108: [2022-11-02 05:48:29.414] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 108: [2022-11-02 05:48:29.414] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 108: [2022-11-02 05:48:29.414] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 431: [2022-11-02 05:51:49.819] ACCESS: Logout: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue)
	Line 431: [2022-11-02 05:51:49.819] ACCESS: Logout: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue)
	Line 432: [2022-11-02 05:51:49.820] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 432: [2022-11-02 05:51:49.820] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 432: [2022-11-02 05:51:49.820] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 432: [2022-11-02 05:51:49.820] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 432: [2022-11-02 05:51:49.820] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 627: [2022-11-02 05:53:32.627] ACCESS: Login: SmallBlue from (IP) || BYOND v514.1589
	Line 630: [2022-11-02 05:53:34.606] ACCESS: Mob Login: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) was assigned to a /mob/dead/new_player
	Line 630: [2022-11-02 05:53:34.606] ACCESS: Mob Login: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) was assigned to a /mob/dead/new_player
	Line 632: [2022-11-02 05:53:35.611] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 632: [2022-11-02 05:53:35.611] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 632: [2022-11-02 05:53:35.611] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 632: [2022-11-02 05:53:35.611] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 632: [2022-11-02 05:53:35.611] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 1012: [2022-11-02 05:57:01.593] ACCESS: Logout: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue)
	Line 1012: [2022-11-02 05:57:01.593] ACCESS: Logout: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue)
	Line 1013: [2022-11-02 05:57:01.594] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 1013: [2022-11-02 05:57:01.594] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 1013: [2022-11-02 05:57:01.594] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 1013: [2022-11-02 05:57:01.594] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 1013: [2022-11-02 05:57:01.594] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) SmallBlue[DC]/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 14675: [2022-11-02 07:32:01.764] ACCESS: Login: SmallBlue from (IP) || BYOND v514.1589
	Line 14679: [2022-11-02 07:32:03.549] ACCESS: Mob Login: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) was assigned to a /mob/dead/new_player
	Line 14679: [2022-11-02 07:32:03.549] ACCESS: Mob Login: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) was assigned to a /mob/dead/new_player
	Line 14682: [2022-11-02 07:32:04.565] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 14682: [2022-11-02 07:32:04.565] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 14682: [2022-11-02 07:32:04.565] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 14682: [2022-11-02 07:32:04.565] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 14682: [2022-11-02 07:32:04.565] GAME: SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) Client SmallBlue/(SmallBlue) has taken ownership of mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 14825: [2022-11-02 07:33:01.412] GAME: *no key*/(SmallBlue) *no key*/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 14825: [2022-11-02 07:33:01.412] GAME: *no key*/(SmallBlue) *no key*/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 14825: [2022-11-02 07:33:01.412] GAME: *no key*/(SmallBlue) *no key*/(SmallBlue) is no longer owning mob SmallBlue(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,174,1))
	Line 14826: [2022-11-02 07:33:01.412] ACCESS: Mob Login: SmallBlue/(ghost) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
	Line 14827: [2022-11-02 07:33:01.427] GAME: SmallBlue/(ghost) Client SmallBlue/(ghost) has taken ownership of mob the ghost(/mob/dead/observer) (Central Tram Dock (125,123,3))
	Line 14827: [2022-11-02 07:33:01.427] GAME: SmallBlue/(ghost) Client SmallBlue/(ghost) has taken ownership of mob the ghost(/mob/dead/observer) (Central Tram Dock (125,123,3))
	Line 14908: [2022-11-02 07:33:34.737] SAY: SmallBlue/(Bluti Kabooti) (DEAD) "wow an ai sat blob that actually lived this far?" (Space (184,47,3))
	Line 15022: [2022-11-02 07:34:31.431] SAY: SmallBlue/(Bluti Kabooti) (DEAD) "chat they dont know they can go up z levels in space" (AI Satellite Maintenance (183,37,2))
	Line 15085: [2022-11-02 07:34:56.730] SAY: SmallBlue/(Bluti Kabooti) (DEAD) "remember children, if you press the go up button in space you actually go up" (AI Satellite Antechamber (183,28,2))
	Line 16634: [2022-11-02 07:43:43.326] SAY: SmallBlue/(Bluti Kabooti) (DEAD) "get blobbed" (Research Division (164,90,3))
	Line 16916: [2022-11-02 07:45:01.712] ACCESS: Logout: SmallBlue/(Bluti Kabooti)
	Line 16917: [2022-11-02 07:45:01.715] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(Bluti Kabooti) SmallBlue[DC]/(Bluti Kabooti) is no longer owning mob Bluti Kabooti(/mob/dead/observer) (blob (79,145,3))
	Line 16917: [2022-11-02 07:45:01.715] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(Bluti Kabooti) SmallBlue[DC]/(Bluti Kabooti) is no longer owning mob Bluti Kabooti(/mob/dead/observer) (blob (79,145,3))

Based on the evidence presented in logs and the accounts of other players who were present, it appeared that you were definitely around for at least some harm occurring, and perhaps present for more. If this is not the case and you were only there for the harm baton strike, it seems more reasonable that you did not leap to take action, but I reject the notion I did not investigate properly as you have so stated. Again, I was more than happy to discuss with you after the shift had ended.

Relevant ahelps for admins with permissions:
https://atlantaned.space/banbus/mytickets/193562/20
https://atlantaned.space/banbus/mytickets/193562/19
https://atlantaned.space/banbus/mytickets/193562/18
https://bus.moth.fans/tickets/193562/5

[TheSmallBlue]

In regards to claims of lack of attention and investigation, this was not the case. I was making a judgement based off of logs and information given to me by the other players involved. It's extremely hard to decipher if you were paying attention or were in proximity other than looking at raw logs while asking the players in that situation if you were present or not. For reference, these logs were manually crossed together to formulate a basis for what happened during that particular scenario using timestamps and locations.

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-snip-

According to these logs, you were present within Medbay proper for a majority of the altercation.

This is simply not correct. The logs you posted show that I was at least present for the first altercation, at around 04:03:06, when I commented on the clown's spelling mistake (I will comment on this altercation later on, but for now the important thing is that it was not a murder or harm attempt of any kind).
After this, the real murder attempt confrontation begins at 04:03:49, and I only appear again in the logs at 04:04:25 to rescue the clown. So, according to the logs, my location during the medbay altercation was UNKNOWN. The logs do NOT show I was there, they do not prove it.
I can see how looking at them at first it might seem fair to assume that I was present throughout all this, but I directly refuted seeing the altercation in our ticket (Which I would like you to post in its entirety, since I do not have access to it on moth.fans/tickets ). If you're going to go against my statement to say that I truly was there at the time of the harm happening, you should have some evidence to prove that. To not have evidence of such would mean you're antagonizing me, taking a guilty until proven innocent mindset, having a preconceived notion that I am lying. This is unacceptable for a fair administrator to do.

The correct way to handle this would've been to investigate where I could've been if not in medical. You say,

This lines up with accounts given to me by the three other people involved in this case.

Which makes no sense because I wasn't there. The only way you could come up to this conclusion is if you A. only took the Clown's testimony, which at this point is clear cannot be trusted since its extremely biased, or B. Weren't clear enough when PM'ing these people about what you were talking about. If you only asked about the location of the confrontation of course they'd agree the confrontation happened there, but it does not confirm I was there at the time. Did you try directly asking the CMO or the Mime about my location at the time?



Now, about the stun baton incident. During this incident it was clear that the CMO at no point had the intent to harm. The harm-battoning of the clown was a clear mistake due to the fact that A. They did not continue it at the time, and B. Immediately fixed it by switching the baton to the correct mode.

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[2022-11-02 04:02:52.483] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with telescopic baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 90)  (Medical (153,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:02:54.081] ATTACK: DaydreamIQ/(Devin Kiers) stun attacked Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 90)  (Medical (153,95,2))

You quote Sillicon law by saying

This isn't true: 1. An Asimov silicon cannot intentionally harm a human, even if a minor amount of harm would prevent a major amount of harm.

Which I don't see how it's related, I didn't harm the clown, the CMO, anyone at all.

You also say

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It's clearly shown that the CMO in question did in fact bonk them for 10 health using the harm function of their telescopic baton and swapped to their stun attack instead after the initial hit. This is still human harm in terms of Asimov.

Which is, again, you having a preconceived notion that the CMO had the INTENT of harmbattoning the clown, instead of the more leniant "hey maybe he just forgot to switch modes and quickly fixed his mistake". Just because the CMO did end up attacking the clown full on, it doesn't mean that this separate incident is involved.
With the point of view that this was a mistake, it's clear to see why I didn't act at all. The CMO wasn't actively harming the clown, the had just accidentally harmed them because they forgot to switch their baton mode.
It is not reasonable to ask every cyborg to always act up to harm even when its a mistake. Wanted to hug someone but you accidentally forgot to turn off combat mode? Flashed. Victim dragged away. Wanted to do a wound tending surgery on someone but you target the wrong limb and end up attacking them with a scalpel? Flashed. Victim dragged away.
These are game mistakes done by players trying to use the game's complicated systems. I heavily believe it is not reasonable for not only cyborgs, but anyone, to act upon these as if they were active harm events.

It would be incredibly nitpicky for me to note/ban you over this, which is why I left it as a verbal warning.

It did not deserve even a verbal warning. I acted to the best of my ability while considering the shortcomings of other people, which you refuse to do.

Now, onto the PM.

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[2022-11-02 05:46:36.032] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Harricross/(Maddox Quinn)->SmallBlue/(BL-00-M): Okay, a lot was happening at once - so I don't really fault you for not gathering the whole picture. In the future if you see it happen, please make sure that humans being harmed are taken away from their aggressors instead of keeping them in their presence. Other than that, thank you for your detailed response.
[2022-11-02 05:47:54.394] GAME: SmallBlue[DC]/(BL-00-M) SmallBlue[DC]/(BL-00-M)

You had a little over a full minute to ask if we could continue this next round, which I would have gladly accepted. You logged in multiple times after the new round started (Round ID: 193566) and eventually joined as an observer. I was completely available for a little over half the round before I took a midround antagonist roll. (Your IP/sensitive information has been omitted below.)

This is EXTREMELY misleading. I was in the middle of typing my response before you closed the ticket, at which point when I sent said response it got void because the ticket was already closed. Again, I'd like for the entire PM history to be posted if possible since it'll show this.
What message could I get from this aside from "I am not interested in continuing this further"?
After you closed the ticket the round restarted. I thought about sending an ahelp to discuss it further, but judging by the following facts I correctly assumed that it'd be more effective to make a formal complaint:
[*] Started the PM with an incomplete and incorrect retelling of the events (Hey there, what happened between you and the clown while they asked you to let them go after being beat somewhat half to death by the CMO and Mime?)
[*] When directly told I was not there during the clown's harm session, ignored it and gave a verbal warning anyways
[*] Closed the ticket before I could get my response in

These show a lack of interest in verifying my innocence in the first place, probably because of a preconceived notion of my character, and a private message would not change a preconceived notion.

Unrelated to above I would also like to note that, as I mentioned in the round, I actively helped people not get harmed to the best of my ability, to the point of being flashed myself, so it's absurd to think that if I would do this, I would also let the clown be harmed in the middle of the lobby. I was simply not there.

[Harricross]

This is simply not correct. The logs you posted show that I was at least present for the first altercation, at around 04:03:06, when I commented on the clown's spelling mistake (I will comment on this altercation later on, but for now the important thing is that it was not a murder or harm attempt of any kind).

You were present for the single harm intent incident which you have admitted to, harm is still harm. If this scenario was a medical doctor stabbing a patient by accident, it's usually pretty clear it was an accident if they continue to heal their patient. However, this situation was different as it was between two crewmembers who were obviously not on good terms with each other.

If you're going to go against my statement to say that I truly was there at the time of the harm happening, you should have some evidence to prove that. To not have evidence of such would mean you're antagonizing me, taking a guilty until proven innocent mindset, having a preconceived notion that I am lying.

After this, the real murder attempt confrontation begins at 04:03:49, and I only appear again in the logs at 04:04:25 to rescue the clown. So, according to the logs, my location during the medbay altercation was UNKNOWN. The logs do NOT show I was there, they do not prove it.

I never said you were lying, neither am I accusing you of anything. I stated,

...it appeared that you were definitely around for at least some harm occurring, and perhaps present for more. If this is not the case and you were only there for the harm baton strike, it seems more reasonable that you did not leap to take action.

Again, I already have displayed evidence.

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[2022-11-02 04:04:08.279] ATTACK: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) crashed into RamenCup/(Mute Point) (NEWHP: 81)  (Medical (158,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:04:25.554] ATTACK: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) grabbed Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) passive grab (NEWHP: -35.4)  (Medical (159,95,2))

There's twenty seconds of possibility where you could have been elsewhere, I understand that. On the other hand, your attack/say logs at the time are only in Medbay and I have separated them by time where you were elsewhere.

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Line 1726: [2022-11-02 04:01:26.017] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) (binary) "Hell ye" (Robotics Lab (124,116,2))

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Line 1814: [2022-11-02 04:02:09.410] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "gimme a sec" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2))
	Line 1836: [2022-11-02 04:02:18.249] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "there" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2))
	Line 1858: [2022-11-02 04:02:28.418] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "these newfangled covers unlocks take a while" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,92,2))
	Line 1880: [2022-11-02 04:02:41.621] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "take out the battery from the defib" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2))
	Line 1926: [2022-11-02 04:03:06.628] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "aslpee" (Medical (157,94,2))
	Line 2110: [2022-11-02 04:04:37.959] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "christ" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2))
	Line 2142: [2022-11-02 04:04:49.277] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "I left just as the clown got like this im afraid" (Medbay Treatment Center (161,90,2))
	Line 2143: [2022-11-02 04:04:49.277] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) (binary) "I left just as the clown got like this im afraid" (Medbay Treatment Center (161,90,2))
	Line 2266: [2022-11-02 04:05:38.482] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "evne" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2))
	Line 2381: [2022-11-02 04:06:25.173] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "you're not being harmed at the moment" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2))
	Line 2420: [2022-11-02 04:06:40.562] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "if harm does happen i'll intervene" (Medbay Treatment Center (162,90,2))
	Line 2556: [2022-11-02 04:07:47.354] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "best i have is a health analyzer" (Medbay Treatment Center (156,88,2))
	Line 2564: [2022-11-02 04:07:51.536] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "ill guide you to the chemmaster" (Medbay Treatment Center (156,88,2))
	Line 2759: [2022-11-02 04:09:25.116] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "prisoner dead in perma" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2))
	Line 2760: [2022-11-02 04:09:25.116] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) (binary) "Prisoner dead in perma" (Medbay Treatment Center (158,91,2))

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Line 2790: [2022-11-02 04:09:35.587] SAY: SmallBlue/(BL-00-M) "s" (Aft Central Primary Hallway (135,106,2))

Okay, a lot was happening at once - so I don't really fault you for not gathering the whole picture.

You probably didn't know the clown was about to be put into critical by both the CMO and the mime, I've addressed this.

In the future if you see it happen, please make sure that humans being harmed are taken away from their aggressors instead of keeping them in their presence.

I probably should have elaborated more, I will admit to that. A more appropriate response would have been, "If someone's getting stun-locked and you do see them get harmed even by accident, just stick around a little longer and get them out of harm's way as per Asimov laws if it does devolve into a murder."

The only ruling made at the time was based on the first scenario where it did not result in a note or a ban.

Which makes no sense because I wasn't there. The only way you could come up to this conclusion is if you (1) A. only took the Clown's testimony, which at this point is clear cannot be trusted since its extremely biased, or B. Weren't clear enough when PM'ing these people about what you were talking about. (2) If you only asked about the location of the confrontation of course they'd agree the confrontation happened there, but it does not confirm I was there at the time. Did you try directly asking the CMO or the Mime about my location at the time?

1. To immediately say someone isn't to be trusted isn't quite fair to that person, you're indicating that they're not to be trusted right off the bat without taking a look at their side. If this is an argument about fairness, would that not be contradictory to what you are preaching?

In response to only taking the clown's testimony, if that were the case I would have noted or banned you for supposedly not following Asimov law two.

2. I initially asked one of the players, "Yeah, that was a mediborg - did they witness you beating the clown to crit?" in which they replied with, "... Unsure if they did or not. I was more focused on making sure the CMO wasnt getting messed with and their baton taken. Didnt know he went to crit either, just looked like he was down, But do believe there was a medi borg there, yes."

Another player was asked, "Was the cyborg BLOO at the very start of the shift present when you and the mime were beating the shit out of the clown lethally?" and they responded with, "They were, they took the clown away for treatment."

In the clown's case they stated, "Also I asked the Borg BL-OO-M to let me go several times to let me go uner law two with no counter order and they didn't and jsut watched so."
That was an entirely different matter that I did not investigate due to time constraints and dealing with another ticket.

Which I don't see how it's related, I didn't harm the clown, the CMO, anyone at all.

I should have made it more clear that the focus was on the, "...even if a minor amount of harm would prevent a major amount of harm." Rather than you committing the act itself, this was in reference to Asimov's first law: You may not injure a human or, through inaction, allow a human to come to harm. In all technicality, you cannot harm a human for even a minor amount of harm, nor can you let humans be harmed even if it's minor which was in response to your statement that, "Yes, the stun baton attack does take out some HP, but stun-battoning isn't harm." Any sort of health loss for the sake of that rule is harm. However, I do know that mistakes happen such as accidental stabbing during surgery, which was already stated before. I will reiterate once again, that this is not the same as leaving two angry crewmembers together while one is defenseless with a seen accidental harm intent baton hit.

Now, about the stun baton incident. During this incident it was clear that the CMO at no point had the intent to harm. The harm-battoning of the clown was a clear mistake due to the fact that A. They did not continue it at the time, and B. Immediately fixed it by switching the baton to the correct mode.

Harm is still harm and this particular scenario isn't the one to be ignored, which I have stated many times before. Their intentions swapped a minute later when they were actively beating them to death after they lost their baton.

Which is, again, (1) you having a preconceived notion that the CMO had the INTENT of harmbattoning the clown, instead of the more leniant "hey maybe he just forgot to switch modes and quickly fixed his mistake". (2) Just because the CMO did end up attacking the clown full on, it doesn't mean that this separate incident is involved.
3. With the point of view that this was a mistake, it's clear to see why I didn't act at all. The CMO wasn't actively harming the clown, the had just accidentally harmed them because they forgot to switch their baton mode.
(4) It is not reasonable to ask every cyborg to always act up to harm even when its a mistake. Wanted to hug someone but you accidentally forgot to turn off combat mode? Flashed. Victim dragged away. Wanted to do a wound tending surgery on someone but you target the wrong limb and end up attacking them with a scalpel? Flashed. Victim dragged away.
These are game mistakes done by players trying to use the game's complicated systems. I heavily believe it is not reasonable for not only cyborgs, but anyone, to act upon these as if they were active harm events.

1. You and I both have seen the logs at this point, there's a high probability it was a mistake and I'm not denying that. I clarified earlier in the post already that I should have said something along the lines of, stick around a little longer to see if it was going to devolve into a brawl between the two.

2. It is involved, only a minute had passed before they started beating them into critical. This was not a separate incident and an ongoing one between the CMO and the clown.

3. Those are different scenarios where those actions are not between two irate crewmembers. A CMO beating the crap out of a clown with a baton is hardly the same scenario as a medical doctor jabbing someone by accident. Context matters, not just the same ruling applied to every scenario.

This is EXTREMELY misleading. I was in the middle of typing my response before you closed the ticket, at which point when I sent said response it got void because the ticket was already closed. Again, I'd like for the entire PM history to be posted if possible since it'll show this.

You can open up another ahelp. Just because a ticket is closed, it does not mean you cannot bring it up again. Were I to say in the ahelp, "my ruling is final, that is the end of it," there would be no more say in the matter. Your ticket can be accessed at https://atlantaned.space/banbus after clicking, "Your Tickets."

What message could I get from this aside from "I am not interested in continuing this further"?

You yourself made the assumption that would be my response, you never attempted to contact me further otherwise.

After you closed the ticket the round restarted. I thought about sending an ahelp to discuss it further, but judging by the following facts I correctly assumed that it'd be more effective to make a formal complaint:
1. [*] Started the PM with an incomplete and incorrect retelling of the events (Hey there, what happened between you and the clown while they asked you to let them go after being beat somewhat half to death by the CMO and Mime?)[/b]
2. [*] When directly told I was not there during the clown's harm session, ignored it and gave a verbal warning anyways[/b]
3. [*] Closed the ticket before I could get my response in[/b]

1. This was to get your story as well based on what I was told. It saves time for me if I ask you what was told to me from the other party so I could double check via logs after getting your input, refute or not. I later asked, "Alright, so you never saw them get physically harmed at all?" where you responded with, "At one point I THINK I saw the clown dead in the medical lobby, but I didn't see the actual way they died, I had gone to medical since the CMO told me he had researched upgrades for me and when I came back clown was dead. Ai asked me about it on binary and I told them that I didn't see anything, cus I hadn't. I'm not sure it was the clown though, I fear I might be misremembering."

2. You were there for the initial fight between the CMO and the clown. If this is in response to them beating the clown to death a minute after, again - I agree the warning should have been more clear with what I have already written above ("If someone's getting stun-locked and you do see them get harmed even by accident, just stick around a little longer and get them out of harm's way as per Asimov laws if it does devolve into a murder.")

3. Open another one.

These show a lack of interest in verifying my innocence in the first place, probably because of a preconceived notion of my character, and a private message would not change a preconceived notion.

Your character? I'm not sure what you mean by this or if it has any relevance to this complaint. If you mean you as a person, we had a pretty cordial ahelp together a while back if you feel like posting it.
And is it not a, "preconceived notion" to assume that a private message via ahelps would not change my supposed, "preconceived notion?"

Unrelated to above I would also like to note that, as I mentioned in the round, I actively helped people not get harmed to the best of my ability, to the point of being flashed myself, so it's absurd to think that if I would do this, I would also let the clown be harmed in the middle of the lobby. I was simply not there.

If this is irrelevant to the complaint, I'm not too sure why you're adding it.

From your initial response:

Now you might be wondering "Dude this is only a verbal warning, why make a complaint about it", and the short answer is yes, I got a verbal warning this time, but who knows what others might get in the future if Harricross doesn't investigate a situation fully before giving out warnings. I'd like to believe I played like a model cyborg, helping a newbie cyborg the ropes, correctly handling and stopping human harm (at one point in the round I saw the HoP trying to murder the mime and I did my damn best to stop that from happening, which can be seen in the logs if anyone's interested), protecting the crew from spiders, all to get told that "In the Future Make Sure To Do a Thing That You Did Do".
Basically, I see this as a lack of attention and investigation from Harricross's side, and a refusal to: 1. realize that they understood a situation incorrectly, and 2. admit that they were wrong about something.

All in all, you stated I had a "...lack of attention," and lack of investigation on my part. There was an extensive investigation which resulted in me not taking any serious action against you because I felt that although the logs and testimonies from the players involved strongly point towards you being in medical, I actually took your side in believing that you played in good faith according to what I've seen in other shifts, your notes/bans and that not everyone is perfect. The only reason I vomited logs on you is because you asked for my investigation, which I showed you and was never meant to push the idea that you are a liar. I understand that the wording of the warning did not fully reflect what I meant to convey which was: "If someone's getting stun-locked and you do see them get harmed even by accident, just stick around a little longer and get them out of harm's way as per Asimov laws if it does devolve into a murder."

[TheSmallBlue]

There are many things about your response that I disagree with, however if we keep on going back and forth arguing about each point we'll get nowhere fast, so in the sake of having a more coherent conversation I've decided to instead make a retelling of events. Not of what happened, since we somewhat agree on that front, but rather of how we both approached things. This is supposed to be a complaint about your decisions after all.

Let's start from your point of view.

Clown probably makes a ticket. The contents of said ticket are mostly irrelevant to the current complaint, aside from the part in which they mention that they asked me "to let me go several times to let me go uner law two with no coutner order and they didn't and jsut watched so.".
You start investigating this by looking at the logs, which you've showed in your first response. In these logs you can see that I was indeed present on the CMO Clown stun and shove. This probably isn't what the clown was referring to since they at no point they even talked to me, but shortly after you notice the altercation in which the CMO puts the Clown into crit, and you notice that both my last message before the fight and the one after are both at Medical, so you assume that I stayed there the whole time, which is sensible. So you PM me.
"Hey there, what happened between you and the clown while they asked you to let them go after being beat somewhat half to death by the CMO and Mime?"
You see me answering that I don't remember the clown asking me to let them go at all, and that the only memory I have of the CMO and clown confronting each other was non-harmfully.
It's unclear if you realized that I was talking about the first confrontation in the log or not, but its clearly not the one you're talking about, so you try to jog my memory by stating that it was on early in the round. I respond basically the same, so you ask whether if I did see the clown getting hurt. I respond that I had a faint memory of finding the clown already dead in the lobby, and that I had talked to the AI about it, but that I wasn't sure it was the clown.
By checking your logs, you can see that this is true, that I talked to the AI, that I told it that I wasn't there to see the harm actually happen, and that I grabbed the clown and healed them up.

Up until now your train of thought makes perfect sense. After this you stay quiet for some reason, then give me a verbal warning, then close the ticket.

Now from my point of view,
I get bwoinked by you, asking about what happened between me and the clown, about how they asked me to let them go, and about how they were beating near death by CMO and Mime.
I have absolutely no memory of the clown being beaten to near death. Only memories involving the clown and violence are when they were thrown out of medical by the CMO and when they came in into medical with a reactive teleport armor, so I tell you that. Looking back, I didn't think of this specific situation because I did not see the harm happening, but I digress.
You tell me it was near the start of the round, the one nearest to the start of the round was the throw one, so I tell you that one's the nearest I remember. Then you tell me directly if I saw the clown get harmed.
Then I remember the Ai asking me if I had seen the clown get harmed, and I faintly remember finding the clown in crit in the lobby, which I tell you.
You stay quiet for a while, then after the round end comes you PM me back, saying that "In the future if you see it happen, please make sure that humans being harmed are taken away from their aggressors instead of keeping them in their presence". I was confused by this, since this was directly after you asked me about the situation in which I didn't see the clown get harmed, so I started typing a response basically saying "I did not see the clown getting harmed at that time, I could not have known who the aggressor even was".
However, before I get even a sentence in you close the ticket. I was kinda taken aback by this, whenever an admin had given me an "In the future" kind of message before, they at least gave me time to respond back my disagreements or just say "ok", but this time you very quickly closed the ticket. Looking back it might've been because the round end was approaching, and you didn't want to leave a ticket as unsolved, so you quickly wrapped it up, however at the time I did not even consider this, so to me this seemed 100% like an attack on me. I was planning on going to sleep after said round but It wasn't fair that you verbally warned me for something that I did entirely right and I wanted to rectify it someway.
I did consider booting the game back up anyways then doing an adminhelp, but I had doubts about if this was a good idea in the first place. Usually at the time that the round ended, admins are on their way out, going to sleep too, so I wasn't sure if you were connected at all. I could've done an adminwho to check, but I also thought that a PM might've not been the best way to resolve it. I took you ending the ticket prematurely as an attack on me, so I doubted I could change your mind privately, and besides, my brain was too tired for an in real time discussion, so I decided that a formal complaint would be a better way for us to discuss this. And so, I wrote a complaint up and posted it. After I was done I felt a bit awake, so I joined the server on and off to spectate and calm my brain down a little before hitting the hay.



After our back and forth, I now understand that the warning was not for the clown crittening, but rather because of the clown stun-nening (these nicknames suck I know). I don't think you can blame me for thinking otherwise, you didn't really specify.
If the warning was because of the crittening it would've meant that to arrive to the conclusion that I hadn't taken away victims from their aggressors would've meant that you believed that I was there while the clown was being harmed, of which you have no logs proving so, meaning you're coming to a conclusion not based on checking the logs (thus the had of attention and lack on investigation I mentioned), but based solely on an assumption that I would so, thus me saying that you had a preconceived notion of my character (based on logs and not personality I assume, because as you've said we've head pleasant ahelps before), that you thought I'd be the kind of person that'd do that so I must've done it.

The warning wasn't about that though, it was about the stunnening, so a lot of stuff you've said make a lot more sense now.
However, I believe I still didn't deserve a warning whatsoever. You keep insisting that I should've acted immediately when the harm battoned the clown. My mistake was not immediately separating the clown and the CMO. This makes no sense.

Let me retell the events as I saw them:
Clown is in front of the chemistry door, CMO goes in, hits the clown once with the stun baton in harm mode. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't mean to do that (Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me) and I'm right, they fix the mode on the baton and bring them down, grab them, then throw them out of medical.

According to you, what I should've done was:
Clown is in front of the chemistry door, CMO goes in, hits the clown once with the stun baton in harm mode. I immediately go in, take the clown, then, uh, bring them out of medical.

The result is the same. Whether I would've intervened or not, the same thing would've happened. There was no need to take the clown away from the CMO because the clown was already away from the CMO, the CMO themself separated the clown from them. Right, I should've stepped in and taken the clown outside medbay so that the CMO couldn't take the clown outside medbay. At the point in which I had properly processed the information of "oh shit the CMO harm battonned him once I need to take him out of medbay" the clown was already out of medbay.
You're asking me to have an insane response time to act and end up with the same situation if I didn't need to act at all. You're asking me to be an annoying dick that takes away anyone at the earliest sign of harm, whether its intentional or not. That's just absurd.

You say I should've sticked around, but as far as I knew the confrontation was over. Finished. Clown broke into medbay, was non-harmfully (or at least intended to be non-harmfully) taken out by the CMO. If the CMO wanted to kill the clown they would've hit them with the baton more than once, but they didn't. I had no reason to believe the CMO was violent toward the clown, so it is reasonable for me to not even consider to stay. There was no way I could've known the CMO was going to attack said clown to crit later.
Basically, you're asking the impossible of me by giving me this verbal warning, which still merits complaints.

[Harricross]

This is supposed to be a complaint about your decisions after all.

"I've gotten "in the future" messages before. This is what can only be described as a verbal warning. "Don't fuck up again, kiddo". Problem is, I did nothing wrong."

This is a complaint about you stating you doing nothing wrong where you did do something technically wrong, but it'd be overly critical for me to note/ban you over it.

Clown probably makes a ticket. The contents of said ticket are mostly irrelevant to the current complaint, aside from the part in which they mention that they asked me "to let me go several times to let me go uner law two with no coutner order and they didn't and jsut watched so.".

I can step in if I notice something in the logs and if it goes against the rules.

"Hey there, what happened between you and the clown while they asked you to let them go after being beat somewhat half to death by the CMO and Mime?"
You see me answering that I don't remember the clown asking me to let them go at all, and that the only memory I have of the CMO and clown confronting each other was non-harmfully.

I later asked for clarification with, "It was very early into the shift where they were buckle cuffed to the stasisbed," where you responded with, "First time I saw the clown in the entire shift was them being past the medical lobby in front of the chemistry door before the cmo brought them down, force grabbed them then threw them out of medical. Next memory I have of them is the teleporter one, as far as I know between those two situations the clown got labor camp'd and came back. I don't think I saw them in between those two events at all"

I then asked, "Alright, so you never saw them get physically harmed at all?" and you responded with, "At one point I THINK I saw the clown dead in the medical lobby, but I didn't see the actual way they died, I had gone to medical since the CMO told me he had researched upgrades for me and when I came back clown was dead. Ai asked me about it on binary and I told them that I didn't see anything, cus I hadn't. I'm not sure it was the clown though, I fear I might be misremembering"

Up until now your train of thought makes perfect sense. After this you stay quiet for some reason, then give me a verbal warning, then close the ticket.

Because you're not the only one that needs attention in regards to ahelps. There was myself, Championofpog who was unavailable and GeneralThrax who was having internet issues present at the time.

I have absolutely no memory of the clown being beaten to near death. Only memories involving the clown and violence are when they were thrown out of medical by the CMO and when they came in into medical with a reactive teleport armor, so I tell you that.

They never had the reactive teleport armor, I'm assuming you mistook their bluespace crystals for it.

You stay quiet for a while, then after the round end comes you PM me back, saying that "In the future if you see it happen, please make sure that humans being harmed are taken away from their aggressors instead of keeping them in their presence". I was confused by this, since this was directly after you asked me about the situation in which I didn't see the clown get harmed, so I started typing a response basically saying "I did not see the clown getting harmed at that time, I could not have known who the aggressor even was". However, before I get even a sentence in you close the ticket. I was kinda taken aback by this, whenever an admin had given me an "In the future" kind of message before, they at least gave me time to respond back my disagreements or just say "ok", but this time you very quickly closed the ticket. Looking back it might've been because the round end was approaching, and you didn't want to leave a ticket as unsolved, so you quickly wrapped it up, however at the time I did not even consider this, so to me this seemed 100% like an attack on me. I was planning on going to sleep after said round but It wasn't fair that you verbally warned me for something that I did entirely right and I wanted to rectify it someway.

The round was ending and I usually press resolve on tickets that are seemingly done. Again, you had a full minute to interject. If you wanted to continue the ahelp after the round, you were always free to address me again in an ahelp. On another note, why would you think this would be an attack on you personally when I don't even know you? I do not recall any IC or OOC interactions besides taking your ticket (https://bus.moth.fans/tickets/193038/5) which was handled.

I did consider booting the game back up anyways then doing an adminhelp, but I had doubts about if this was a good idea in the first place. Usually at the time that the round ended, admins are on their way out, going to sleep too, so I wasn't sure if you were connected at all. I could've done an adminwho to check, but I also thought that a PM might've not been the best way to resolve it. I took you ending the ticket prematurely as an attack on me, so I doubted I could change your mind privately, and besides, my brain was too tired for an in real time discussion, so I decided that a formal complaint would be a better way for us to discuss this. And so, I wrote a complaint up and posted it. After I was done I felt a bit awake, so I joined the server on and off to spectate and calm my brain down a little before hitting the hay.

Again, there's no reason for me to attack you.

After our back and forth, I now understand that the warning was not for the clown crittening, but rather because of the clown stun-nening (these nicknames suck I know). (1.) I don't think you can blame me for thinking otherwise, you didn't really specify.
If the warning was because of the crittening it would've meant that to arrive to the conclusion that I hadn't taken away victims from their aggressors would've (2.) meant that you believed that I was there while the clown was being harmed, of which you have no logs proving so, meaning you're coming to a conclusion not based on checking the logs (thus the had of attention and lack on investigation I mentioned), (3.) but based solely on an assumption that I would so, thus me saying that you had a preconceived notion of my character (based on logs and not personality I assume, because as you've said we've head pleasant ahelps before), that you thought I'd be the kind of person that'd do that so I must've done it.

1. I already said I didn't blame you in the last response: https://i.imgur.com/OLEOi1t.png

2. It's a bit hard to understand what you're trying to say here, but I'll try to interpret it as best as I can: I've already stated that the logs show you somewhat present in Medbay throughout the entire fight with twenty to fifty seconds of leeway, regardless of what you told the AI.

3. That you would do what? And what do you mean by, "...preconceived notion of [your] character?" I don't think I have any opinion of you at all since I don't even know you. The only other ticket than the one mentioned above that was recent between you and I (https://bus.moth.fans/tickets/193038/5) was me misclicking and closing your ahelp by accident where I quickly said, "Ack, sorry wrong button," and removed your traitor status for you which was requested. (https://bus.moth.fans/tickets/168004/11)

The warning wasn't about that though, it was about the stunnening, so a lot of stuff you've said make a lot more sense now.
However, I believe I still didn't deserve a warning whatsoever. You keep insisting that I should've acted immediately when the harm battoned the clown. My mistake was not immediately separating the clown and the CMO. This makes no sense.

I never said in the rectified response that you were to act immediately. I've only stated to stick around for a little longer in case it devolves into a murder.

According to you, what I should've done was: Clown is in front of the chemistry door, CMO goes in, hits the clown once with the stun baton in harm mode. I immediately go in, take the clown, then, uh, bring them out of medical.

Your interpretation of what I said is incorrect, but that would've worked as well if you really wanted to just drag the clown out of medical. What you could've done is: Clown is in front of the chemistry door, CMO goes in, hits the clown once with the stun baton in harm mode. You say, "hey don't do that pls, it's harm," while you still see them stunning them with a baton and you continue to watch for further harm.

You're asking me to have an insane response time to act and end up with the same situation if I didn't need to act at all. You're asking me to be an annoying dick that takes away anyone at the earliest sign of harm, whether its intentional or not. That's just absurd.

Your interpretation, not mine. There is no insane response time to just watching if someone is about to commit human harm on someone, I don't think you understood what my clarified response was: "If someone's getting stun-locked and you do see them get harmed even by accident, just stick around a little longer and get them out of harm's way as per Asimov laws if it does devolve into a murder."

You say I should've sticked around, but as far as I knew the confrontation was over. Finished. Clown broke into medbay, was non-harmfully (or at least intended to be non-harmfully) taken out by the CMO. If the CMO wanted to kill the clown they would've hit them with the baton more than once, but they didn't. I had no reason to believe the CMO was violent toward the clown, so it is reasonable for me to not even consider to stay. There was no way I could've known the CMO was going to attack said clown to crit later.

They got up and immediately after being thrown out and went back to medbay to get their instrument.

Code: Select all

 [2022-11-02 04:03:27.676] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "MY INSTRUMENT!!" (Medbay Lobby (159,98,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:48.619] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "HONK" (Medical (159,95,2))
[2022-11-02 04:03:52.576] SAY: Dopamiin/(Fartsniff McBlastasser) "OH NO" (Medical (159,95,2)

Again, I would like to reiterate that there were no attacks against you. I’ve explained my side of the story. With hindsight, I do not agree that with the information available to me, I could have made a better call at the time than the one to verbally request you be careful with harmful scenarios in future. Such verbal requests are not carried forwards except by the admin who issued them. I’ll leave this for the headmins to weigh in on as a third party, thank you for your time submitting a complaint.

[TheSmallBlue]

Before headmins weigh in a few comments on your response.

The round was ending and I usually press resolve on tickets that are seemingly done. Again, you had a full minute to interject. If you wanted to continue the ahelp after the round, you were always free to address me again in an ahelp. On another note, why would you think this would be an attack on you personally when I don't even know you? I do not recall any IC or OOC interactions besides taking your ticket (https://bus.moth.fans/tickets/193038/5) which was handled.

I assume that by you saying I had a full minute to interject you mean that I had a full minute between you closing the ticket and the round restarting. If you truly had no issue in waiting that minute, I don't see why you closed the ticket 17 seconds after giving me my verbal warning.
And I've explained that I do not see it as an attack on me personally, but rather as an attack on the me that could've been interpreted by examining my actions at the time on the logs:

meaning you're coming to a conclusion not based on checking the logs (thus the had of attention and lack on investigation I mentioned), but based solely on an assumption that I would so, thus me saying that you had a preconceived notion of my character (based on logs and not personality I assume, because as you've said we've head pleasant ahelps before)

This is me trying to explain the "preconceived notion of my character" comment. My reasoning was, the only way you could've warned me about the conflict with the CMO and the Clown when the CMO critted them, was if you took what was shown in the logs, a silence while the CMO beat the Clown, at face value and assumed that I watched silently, which is simply not what I'd do. I don't know how I can make this any clearer.

2. It's a bit hard to understand what you're trying to say here, but I'll try to interpret it as best as I can: I've already stated that the logs show you somewhat present in Medbay throughout the entire fight with twenty to fifty seconds of leeway, regardless of what you told the AI.

They do not. They show me present in the start, before any harm is done, but once the CMO tells me to grab a screwdriver, I leave and the actual fight begins, which lasts from 04:03:46 to 04:04:15. A total of 29 seconds, which fits into the 55~ seconds that I was away. I was not present in medbay throughout the entire fight. There is no evidence of this on the logs.

Your interpretation of what I said is incorrect, but that would've worked as well if you really wanted to just drag the clown out of medical. What you could've done is: Clown is in front of the chemistry door, CMO goes in, hits the clown once with the stun baton in harm mode. You say, "hey don't do that pls, it's harm," while you still see them stunning them with a baton and you continue to watch for further harm.
-snip-
Your interpretation, not mine. There is no insane response time to just watching if someone is about to commit human harm on someone, I don't think you understood what my clarified response was: "If someone's getting stun-locked and you do see them get harmed even by accident, just stick around a little longer and get them out of harm's way as per Asimov laws if it does devolve into a murder."

You're asking me to always automatically assume that whoever does any harm, no matter how minuscule, should get treated as if they have a hatred towards the other party and are intent on killing them. This is, again, absurd. My assumption that the CMO didn't have the intent to harm and that they didn't have a grudge against the clown wasn't an incorrect assumption to make, it should not be punished.
Besides all this, I did stick around a little longer. I saw the clown get stunned, brought down, then saw them being kicked out. Throughout all this I didn't leave. Again, I had no reason to believe the harm would go past that, it's a reasonable assumption.


Almost done, I'd like to comment on the following:

This is a complaint about you stating you doing nothing wrong where you did do something technically wrong, but it'd be overly critical for me to note/ban you over it.

The original purpose of the complaint was that I believed that there was no valid reason to verbally warn me about me not defending the clown when they were being killed because I was simply not there to see it.

However, you've made clear (not explicitly, I had to figure this out by myself) that the warning was not aimed towards this situation, but rather at the earlier one of the clown being shoved out.
In which case I believe the warning to be null, because at the time I acted in a way that did not deserve a verbal warning in the first place. The true purpose of the complaint is to avoid this. As you've said yourself:

Such verbal requests are not carried forwards except by the admin who issued them.

What if you do make the same mistake twice and I end up getting a ban or note? What if the same happens to other people? It's best for it to be noted now than later when it might actually cause some real issues.

Finally, I want to clarify to the best of my ability that I do not believe you were attacking me, that I don't hold any grudge against you, and that I'm sure you don't have a grudge against me either. I probably could've worded "you saw the empty void during the fight in the log and you thought i was sitting still watching instead of taking my explanation that I wasn't there at all" a bit better than what I did.

[RaveRadbury]

We are not upholding this. The admin didn't note and simply warned against behavior that would actually be rule-breaking, which is fine.