[Alamo Turtle] Annihilite - Grief marked as skill issue (no really)

Locked
Annihilite111
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:00 am
Byond Username: Annihilite

[Alamo Turtle] Annihilite - Grief marked as skill issue (no really)

Post by Annihilite111 » #677668

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Terry
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: Annihilite
Admin: Alamo Turtle
Round ID: 203380

Summary:

A hulk runs up to me in departures while i'm building a turret. I've been in space all shift and am holding a retro laser, which i intend to place into the turret frame and then emag as my sole traitorous act of the shift. I've just made the frame when the hulk decides to punch it out, destroying it. I ask the obvious shitter to cut it out and he uses this opportunity to push me and steal my laser, which he promptly throws out the departures airlock. He then sort of half-runs away while still letting me come close enough to hit him (so that he can retaliate and kill me, which he nearly does). When i ahelped this blatant act of shittery and probable killbaiting i was told that it was actually my fault for not taking enough precaution to protect my stuff. Unless there's been a policy change allowing nonantags to wordlessly steal and space non printable equipment this was not proper enforcement of the rules.
User avatar
AlamoTurtle
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:05 pm
Byond Username: Alamo Turtle

Re: [Alamo Turtle] Annihilite - Grief marked as skill issue (no really)

Post by AlamoTurtle » #677698

When I had joined in and was ghosting near departures, I saw the shuttle almost ready to arrive, then saw Annihilite attempting to unload an empty M1911 into a hulk, with audible *clicks*, resulting in the hulk fighting back. When the ahelp came in, this was all I had actually seen. After delaying round-end and discussing further, I tried to grasp the situation at hand: a gun was taken, chucked out into space by a shitter assistant (from a traitor building a turret assembly), and possible killbaiting. I had wrongly thought the gun chucked in question was an M1911, when it was in fact a retro laser gun. I'll accept that fault in misjudgment, but while i'm not too certain on turret assemblies, I believe you can use an armory laser/cargo-bought laser pistol case as a replacement (especially since you had an emag), making this potentially replaceable. If those don't work, then once more, my fault on not knowing about turret assemblies like that.

That point of replaceability aside, while I can rightfully accept a hulk harassing you for no reason while building what is suspicious yet somewhat normal is a good reason to feel upset, I deemed it not as a skill issue, but as an in-character issue, mostly due to the brandished weapon (did not know at the time you were putting it in the assembly), but also as it was simply spaced, instead of something you got beat down for, and on top of that, you responded in a mostly in-character way: by attempting to kill the hulk with a (unloaded) M1911 and escalating properly. Trying to fire lethals into a player then claiming them "evil" seems like you followed in-character escalation to retaliate against your shit being spaced, which is what I saw with my eyes, even if you were a traitor in this situation. When they didn't get killed off, you then ahelped about it, to which I deemed as in-character, as it had escalated to an in-character response. The moment you attempted to fire lethal weaponry into him with intent to kill, I deemed your prior laser gun's spacing as unactionable.

However, I will provide you some benefit of the doubt in future cases, with this ruling:
"Rule 1 Precents #4: Unprovoked grief (occasionally known as greytiding), repeated cases of minor unprovoked grief, and unprovoked grief targeted towards specific players or groups (i.e. metagrudging) fall under rule 1. Admins may follow up on grief with allowing the affected parties to ignore normal escalation policy or measures such as warnings or bans." However, I will mention that building a turret assembly in departures, a public place everyone (who wants to escape or not take a cramped pod) has to go is suspicious, especially if the hulk in question knows what it is and, seeing it ready to be assembled and you putting in a weapon entirely lethal into it, has a probable reason to step in. Had you simply had it on your waist, been shovestunned, robbed, then had the weapon spaced, then not attempt to shoot the hulk later into the round, I would rule this as a rule 1 note on the hulk player's part. However, since you escalated and had a probable suspicious setup that left the hulk with reason enough to interfere, I stand by my judgment.

I'm sorry about your dissatisfaction, but I shall let the headmins use this as precedence to future events if they deem my judgment incorrect.
Image
Image
Image
Annihilite111
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:00 am
Byond Username: Annihilite

Re: [Alamo Turtle] Annihilite - Grief marked as skill issue (no really)

Post by Annihilite111 » #677728

AlamoTurtle wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:21 pm When I had joined in and was ghosting near departures, I saw the shuttle almost ready to arrive, then saw Annihilite attempting to unload an empty M1911 into a hulk, with audible *clicks*, resulting in the hulk fighting back. When the ahelp came in, this was all I had actually seen. After delaying round-end and discussing further, I tried to grasp the situation at hand: a gun was taken, chucked out into space by a shitter assistant (from a traitor building a turret assembly), and possible killbaiting. I had wrongly thought the gun chucked in question was an M1911, when it was in fact a retro laser gun. I'll accept that fault in misjudgment, but while i'm not too certain on turret assemblies, I believe you can use an armory laser/cargo-bought laser pistol case as a replacement (especially since you had an emag), making this potentially replaceable. If those don't work, then once more, my fault on not knowing about turret assemblies like that.

That point of replaceability aside, while I can rightfully accept a hulk harassing you for no reason while building what is suspicious yet somewhat normal is a good reason to feel upset, I deemed it not as a skill issue, but as an in-character issue, mostly due to the brandished weapon (did not know at the time you were putting it in the assembly), but also as it was simply spaced, instead of something you got beat down for, and on top of that, you responded in a mostly in-character way: by attempting to kill the hulk with a (unloaded) M1911 and escalating properly. Trying to fire lethals into a player then claiming them "evil" seems like you followed in-character escalation to retaliate against your shit being spaced, which is what I saw with my eyes, even if you were a traitor in this situation. When they didn't get killed off, you then ahelped about it, to which I deemed as in-character, as it had escalated to an in-character response. The moment you attempted to fire lethal weaponry into him with intent to kill, I deemed your prior laser gun's spacing as unactionable.

However, I will provide you some benefit of the doubt in future cases, with this ruling:
"Rule 1 Precents #4: Unprovoked grief (occasionally known as greytiding), repeated cases of minor unprovoked grief, and unprovoked grief targeted towards specific players or groups (i.e. metagrudging) fall under rule 1. Admins may follow up on grief with allowing the affected parties to ignore normal escalation policy or measures such as warnings or bans." However, I will mention that building a turret assembly in departures, a public place everyone (who wants to escape or not take a cramped pod) has to go is suspicious, especially if the hulk in question knows what it is and, seeing it ready to be assembled and you putting in a weapon entirely lethal into it, has a probable reason to step in. Had you simply had it on your waist, been shovestunned, robbed, then had the weapon spaced, then not attempt to shoot the hulk later into the round, I would rule this as a rule 1 note on the hulk player's part. However, since you escalated and had a probable suspicious setup that left the hulk with reason enough to interfere, I stand by my judgment.

I'm sorry about your dissatisfaction, but I shall let the headmins use this as precedence to future events if they deem my judgment incorrect.
It didn't come up in our discussion, but did you actually ask the hulk why he did what he did? He didnt say a word during the entire situation, and i certainly didnt get the impression that he was suspecting me to be up to no good.
User avatar
AlamoTurtle
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:05 pm
Byond Username: Alamo Turtle

Re: [Alamo Turtle] Annihilite - Grief marked as skill issue (no really)

Post by AlamoTurtle » #677758

Annihilite111 wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:58 pm It didn't come up in our discussion, but did you actually ask the hulk why he did what he did? He didnt say a word during the entire situation, and i certainly didnt get the impression that he was suspecting me to be up to no good.
I did not manage to get around to contacting the hulk player, no. I probably would've gotten a better ticket and explanation if I had both of you come through to the next round and explain, though the conclusion I've come to is shown above without the hulk's side of the story, and the argument and subsequent (attempted) retaliation are still there before your ahelp had come through at all. I should've taken the time to ask further questions, yes, and I do for most tickets, but as I was drawing the round-end out and had already seen a lot of information that leads to an in-character quarrel to settle things, I instead wrapped it up as such and resolved the ticket. I know you're not satisfied with that answer, but turrets being built in departures at random are still plenty suspicious, even if not completely assembled or armed. I leave this to headmins to decide if this ticket handling was half-assed or if they would come to a similar conclusion based on the facts presented, and I'm still sorry that you're dissatisfied with the issue after the round ended and moved on.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Vekter
In-Game Admin
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
Byond Username: Vekter
Location: Fucking around with the engine.

Re: [Alamo Turtle] Annihilite - Grief marked as skill issue (no really)

Post by Vekter » #678078

A couple of context notes that might be important:

1) While we did have a button letting admins mark tickets as a "Skill Issue" during the April Fool's event, this round happened well after those PRs were no longer testmerged, so there wasn't a way for Alamo to actually flag the ticket as that. He would have literally had to tell Annihilite it was a skill issue, which (per the ticket logs) he did not. This seems like a minor deal, but I think it's important to frame that Alamo was acting in good faith as an admin and not just telling Allihilite to get fucked for being bad at the game.

2) I'm not 100% sure on this, but if I recall correctly, turrets take on the attributes of whatever gun are inserted into them, and I recall the retro laser gun having a higher force value.
AliasTakuto wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
Annihilite111
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:00 am
Byond Username: Annihilite

Re: [Alamo Turtle] Annihilite - Grief marked as skill issue (no really)

Post by Annihilite111 » #678124

Hello it's me the real complainer himself in person. After extensive discussion with the board and several overpaid consultants as well as several terapeutic sessions of grass touching i have come to the conclusion that this complaint was petty, stupid and fueled by an unbecoming amount of seethe. I therefore ask that our pantheon of FAIRLY AND DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED janitor-kings turn their respective keys to allow the forum-beast Armhulen to consume this thread.
User avatar
Armhulen
Global Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:30 pm
Byond Username: Armhulenn
Github Username: bazelart
Location: The Grand Tournament

Re: [Alamo Turtle] Annihilite - Grief marked as skill issue (no really)

Post by Armhulen » #678219

Sure thing.
Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users