[rageguy505] Allowing willing cult conversions.

[carshalash]

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Manuel
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: carshalash/amaretto
Admin: rageguy505
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/205582
Detailed summary: In round 205582 the members of the cult announced that they would be converting people at the bar, for some reason. Crewmembers went to the bar to willingly become converted, after said announcement. Now, the first two conversions that were performed were in a state of being able to assume "Surely this isn't real and is just a joke."

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[2023-05-13 06:17:40.902] ATTACK: XPokee/(Marianne Catlay) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))
[2023-05-13 06:17:52.439] ATTACK: RedSnappah/(Nulaz-Otumeel) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))

At this point the incident is frustrating, you can assume negligence and stupidity of these two crewmembers, this becomes malicious and intentional for the following conversions, as the converter had adorned the cult combat equipment.

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[2023-05-13 06:18:40.968] ATTACK: TagGamerGame2/(Slippy Joe) used a cult spell on TagGamerGame2/(Slippy Joe) with Summon Combat Equipment (NEWHP: 99.9)  (The Ale' Nath (63,138,2))

After this, 5 conversions happen, with one of the converting members being in open cult gear.

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[2023-05-13 06:18:56.079] ATTACK: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))
[2023-05-13 06:19:02.458] ATTACK: Stiix/(Strawberry Cream) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))
[2023-05-13 06:19:26.476] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(Preonix Fright) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))
[2023-05-13 06:19:28.699] ATTACK: Blacklist897/(Alexander Moore) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2)) (This one I find the most frustrating as the player would have 100% witnessed that it was real due to the 2-second difference.)
[2023-05-13 06:19:50.120] ATTACK: Sulta/(Clark Rahl) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))
[2023-05-13 06:20:05.194] ATTACK: Isratosh/(Shade of Parles Francais) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))

At this point we see the first use of the stun hand on crewmembers, the first few non willing conversion.

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[2023-05-13 06:20:06.015] ATTACK: Monkepower394/(Michael Barrons) used a cult spell on Die_amond/(Jimmy Biggs) with Stun (NEWHP: 100)  (The Ale' Nath (65,135,2))
[2023-05-13 06:20:07.907] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(Preonix Fright) used a cult spell on Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) with Stun (NEWHP: 100)  (The Ale' Nath (63,138,2))
[2023-05-13 06:20:09.102] ATTACK: Die_amond/(Jimmy Biggs) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))
[2023-05-13 06:20:13.755] ATTACK: Iamcooldan/(Bartholomew Davis) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))
[2023-05-13 06:20:33.765] ATTACK: Die_amond/(Jimmy Biggs) used a cult spell on SkoomaWithdrawl/(Walter Franks) with Stun (NEWHP: 100)  (Kitchen (73,141,2))
[2023-05-13 06:20:39.353] ATTACK: SkoomaWithdrawl/(Walter Franks) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))
[2023-05-13 06:20:33.765] ATTACK: Die_amond/(Jimmy Biggs) used a cult spell on SkoomaWithdrawl/(Walter Franks) with Stun (NEWHP: 100)  (Kitchen (73,141,2))
[2023-05-13 06:20:22.640] ATTACK: LordQuailius/(Amaya Ashwind) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))
[2023-05-13 06:20:33.765] ATTACK: Die_amond/(Jimmy Biggs) used a cult spell on SkoomaWithdrawl/(Walter Franks) with Stun (NEWHP: 100)  (Kitchen (73,141,2))
[2023-05-13 06:20:39.353] ATTACK: SkoomaWithdrawl/(Walter Franks) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))

Some more conversions without stuns

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[2023-05-13 06:20:22.640] ATTACK: LordQuailius/(Amaya Ashwind) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))
[2023-05-13 06:21:31.720] ATTACK: GorgleBing/(Akira Ashwind) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))
[2023-05-13 06:21:54.065] ATTACK: Sedna Bold/(Mite Shart) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (The Ale' Nath (65,138,2))

In my ahelp with Rageguy, he states it's too hard to tell who was or wasn't willingly converted. This isn't the case, as all cult actions are stored in attack logs, shown in this complaint. Being willingly converted into a cult is unhealthy for the game. It is an antagonist that's objective is to end the round; this lead to a 25-minute round where there was no conflict and only a quick snowballing mob of cultists murdering their target. The overall apathy and lack of care about the self-antagonising rules being broken was why I initially made the policy thread before the admin complaint. I don't wish for this event to occur again in the future, and unfortunately, policy threads are the best way to ensure that.

For those in the policy thread who questioned, "Oh but what was the context? Surely there was good reason." It was just the cultists spamming "Cult Con" over comms and people coming in to be converted willingly. People observing this thread are free to verify this by reading the say logs of the round, I'm not copying and pasting every instance of it being spammed into this thread.

[Rageguy505]

Hi I'm busy working this weekend, I'll respond to it later

[Archie700]

► Show Spoiler

soo, what's with people willingly joining cult for free killing privilege?
carshalash ➡ Admins
2023-05-13T06:23:21

Why do I get noted for 'ahelping wrong' with threats but people gleefully self antagging is totally fine?
carshalash ➡ Admins
2023-05-13T06:25:53

Closed by Rageguy505
rageguy505 ➡ Admins
2023-05-13T06:26:00

woops
rageguy505 ➡ carshalash
2023-05-13T06:26:04

anyways, its pretty hard to tell who got forcibly converted and who just dived onto a rune
rageguy505 ➡ carshalash
2023-05-13T06:26:23

:doubt:
carshalash ➡ rageguy505
2023-05-13T06:26:30

i wasnt watching it the whole time but like most of them were just people standing around staring till they got stunned
rageguy505 ➡ carshalash
2023-05-13T06:26:49

Can we drop all pretenses that this is a 'roleplay server' if you're cool with allowing this stuff?
carshalash ➡ rageguy505
2023-05-13T06:27:50

Client disconnected
➡ carshalash
2023-05-13T06:35:09

Ahelp logs per dragomagol's quote.

[Rageguy505]

I feel like its important context that the clown, a round start cultist, made a convert rune surrounded by fake runes in the bar. To me, this would have made it a pretty clear joke to anyone that would be nearby, the whole cult con thing was spearheaded by him and all the other cultists were playing along with the joke. And the converts I did see other than a handful of "joking" ones were forcibly converted via cult stun/bolas.
I think its pretty hard to tell if someone was getting a free antag roll or falling for/playing along with the clowns joke via logs in this scenario.

[Misdoubtful]

We are unwilling to uphold this complaint for the following simple reasons:

Admins are not required to act on everything.
Admins are not all seeing and are allowed to miss things.
Admins are also allowed to waive things.
Cult gimmicks and conversion gimmicks are allowed for the sake of emergent gameplay.
But primarily: the admin in question did nothing that was against conduct.

Finally, if the intention with this was to provide feedback to the admin about what occurred, the use of a feedback thread is recommended. This was not abuse nor was it a violation of conduct done by the admin in any way, shape or form.