/tg/Station 13

Byond account and character name: TheWulfe | August Talon
Admin: KorPhaeron
Time incident occured: 3/12/16; Sybil 11:30~ish
Summary:

I don't feel like copying the massive circumstances the incident is actually based on from the FNR thread, so I'll just point to this thread.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6174

Of note:
Nathan Ward's poor self-escalation basically involved him waging war against security, and eventually for some reason he gets permission to murder security (which I don't know if his actual murders occuring before or after this), which KorPhaeron haphazardly agreed to. I really consider this a majority of Nathan Ward's shittery that even caused him to go into admin-permission territory.

The actual ASay/AHelp logs can help.

Kor already said that it was a mistake that he gave the permission to the player.

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish with this thread, causing this much of a shitstorm over one round is a bit extra I would say.

I'm gonna refer you to the very last sentence on this page.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules

That's literally the whole point I'm getting for this portion of an admin complaint of the incident, is the establishment of 'Why?'

What part of the responsibility falls on knowingly or haphazardly granting permission to murder, what part was the poor self-escalation on the part of Nathan Ward to even get to the point of asking an admin to do what he did, what part of it was a (I'm going to assume) deliberately misleading ASay/AHelp (ASay logs would help). Why his severely rule-breaking behavior - which is now being acknowledged as severely rule breaking - is being handwaved now.

And I'd rather have Kor respond to this since he was involved.

I already posted my reasoning and then some in the other thread.

It was a long round with nothing happening, he asked for permission to escalate a conflict, I told him he could.

Don't see how that is any different than admins spawning traitors/swarmers/etc during a peaceful wizard round, except this was far more organic.

Sounds like you got to have a life and death struggle with a robust, well armed, assistant. That's more fun than most Sec death's I've had where the clown slips me on his pda and eswords me to death.

Because a traitor is a traitor, and a non-antagonist is a non-antagonist. I'd explain the merit of why that's an incredible distinction, but I feel I inadvertently alienate when I compound too much, so I'll leave it at that.

I've accepted the moral compass of this incident is towards the greytider who's stated and believes a real life MMA fighter would be justified in knocking out a cop because he doesn't like being detained.

Will end this on that I acknowledge the handwave, while disagree on it. A summary of my view that
'A player shouldn't wage war and kill officers because he doesn't like his arrest.'
'His escalation was poor and self-induced'
And in honor of Little Marco: 'Let us dispel this notion that sirnat didn't know what he was doing. He knew exactly what he was doing. sirnat was undergoing a systematic effort to killbait security and get away with it.'
And accept that the greytider got a fluke lottery win to play antag when he got the handwave from the left field by an admin who was focused on code at the time.

After that I'm done on the issue besides the ASay log. Just a chuckling curiosity to see how legit a request to murder security looks like.

Someone should also show him the PDA message's between me and the HoS before I started fighting back as Kor also pointed out.

You seem think I was, "Killbaiting". If I was killbaiting, I wouldn't have went 30+ minutes without killing any sec of running and hiding.
If I was killbaiting, I wouldn't have returned two weapons, a taser and the hos weapon, lets also not forget if I was killbaiting I would've used that HoS gun to kill all of you because I had the access to a recharger.
If I was killbaiting, I wouldn't have ahelped about it and instead went full murderbone.

If I was breaking the rules and shitting it up, I would've gotten in trouble by the other admins online at the time or told not to fight back violently.
If I was trying to be a shitter, I would've done far worse things then throw three molotovs at the warden and other officers.
I would've tox'd and tied officers.

You really think theres more to this, other than sec was actually in the wrong for attempting to arrest me in the first place over the use of a toy one time in which the HoS was in no danger as he was helped up as he slipped.

TLDR: You're like one of those people who think theres more to everything and for some reason you retracted what you said saying, "Just close this, I was mad at the time" or whatever it was and edited your post.

People here literally failing the Sally-Anne test.

People in this game act on incomplete information. That's the nature of the game.
Sirnat thought sec were being shit and trying to relentlessly pursue and arrest him and probably end up executing him over some fucking foam.
Thewulfe thought he was a legit target for arrest and therefore he should arrest the shit out of him on sight.

Neither party had the full story in-game and now we have calls for bans because neither of them acted in accordance with what actually happened from the point of view of an omniscient observer.

"Sally didn't look in Anne's box for her marble, ban she"

that is the most useful fnr post I've seen in some time

Previous Text wrote:
[quote="sirnat"]
-snip-

The portion of IC character interaction was already resolved, you already got your handwave. But you responded anyway so I get my response

While you're being cheeky with your plausible deniability PDAs, you ignored my PDA where I specifically told you to come the brig and we can sort this out. To which you refused because you wanted to play the 'You're going to kill me' game. Because without that game you can't give yourself justification for syringing officers coming near you. I know you wanted to continue to play the 'I get to shoot at officers' game because you specifically ignored a Sec Gas Mask 'HALT!' command before the first time I ever wanted to tase you. You couldn't even play your own escalation 'guidelines' (which you've established in the other thread as 'firing a taser or rubber shotgun') properly until you kept self-escalating. Maybe not killbaiting in specific, but definately something involving shooting syringes for 30 minutes that would lead you down that path.

All your could've would've should'ves don't negate actions.

My reason to remove an edit that doesn't significantly change content is my own, if it's deemed important I can go in depth

---

↑ I hope thats the last IC related thing to the incident
I want to keep the thread to the specific admin action of the title, which I acknowledge and sort have to accept the decision but is a sort of a protestation. The only reason I still want this open to request ALogs is to help sort things out as to what exactly sort of... Enabled things to happen.[/size][/quote]

EDIT: I'm fine now, I keep getting mood whiplash. Just go ahead and close this, ALogs won't really change anything but embitter the whole thing.