[Jordie0608] Flatoftheblade - Incompetence handling case

[Flatoftheblade]

Byond account and character name: Flatoftheblade - Titus Pulcher
Admin: Jordie0608
Time incident occurred: The round that just ended (approx. 1145 MST)
Detailed summary:

I was a lawyer. Early in the round, the detective (Clark O'Neil) called me a "kike" and burned me with a lighter. I punched him once in response, and was brigged for 10 minutes by the warden at the detective's urging. I ahelped and my time was reduced by a few minutes. The detective had it out for me for the rest of the round and was continuously attempting to demote me and evict me from the brig.

Later I was in interrogation and a client of mine (Nyarlathotep) was repeatedly flashed by a sec officer (Cleveland Smith) until his vision was impaired. The evidence was thin and he was eventually released.

After this, I went to the librarian (Toolbox Joe) who was acting as a reporter. I told him what happened and that he should write a story about it, and he was receptive. Both Cleveland Smith and Clark O'Neil saw me doing this and were displeased.

Cleveland Smith stunned and arrested me, and when I asked why, he said it was for "inciting riots and rebellion." I promptly ahelped since I did NOTHING criminal. He dumped me into interrogation with Clark O'Neil and left. Clark then stated that he was going to permabrig me for "inciting rebellion against the fatherland" unless I "confessed." I ahelped a second time, since I had received no response and the situation was escalating.

I unbuckled myself from the chair I was cuffed to, and ran around the room while Clark tried to get me and instead repeatedly tased and harmbatoned a braindead that was buckled to a chair and that I used as cover. I ahelped a third time. I finally got a response from Jordie indicating that they were speaking to the detective. I was harmbatonned and cuffed while talking to Jordie and told the detective, in parenthesis, that he only got me because I was PMing admins (not something I do often, but this was an exceptional situation). Jordie warned *me* not to OOC in IC.

While Jordie was supposedly talking to the detective, for several minutes the detective repeatedly harmbatonned me, punched me, dragged me around the station completely stripped, and finally left me cuffed, naked and with my belongings in the interrogation room. I ahelped stating that I had not had ANY of my belongings returned, and that the detective had repeatedly harmbatonned me. Jordie stated that he had spoken to the detective and considered the matter "resolved," and that he would get me to my belongings "when it was safe to do so." After a few minutes, he teleported me into the evidence room with *some* of my belongings (but not even an ID that would allow me to leave the evidence room).

In summary:

- I had to send three admin PMs while actively being griefed, before getting any response.
- The detective was permitted to steal my items and beat me for several minutes even after Jordie was supposedly speaking with him.
- The detective got to casually toss me aside after beating and robbing me (without even removing my handcuffs), and Jordie considered this "resolution."
- Instead of telling the detective to give me my things back, he teleported me into a locked room with only *most* of my items.
- The detective got to play out the rest of his round as if nothing happened. Ditto the sec officer.

This was literally my very first round on the server and I am genuinely curious if this was par the course for how things operate here.

[Jordie0608]

- I had to send three admin PMs while actively being griefed, before getting any response.

All I can say is sorry, I guess I must have missed these.

- The detective was permitted to steal my items and beat me for several minutes even after Jordie was supposedly speaking with him.

As I told you at the time; investigations take time and I'm not going to wade into an incident and lay down a verdict without talking to the parties involved first, this talking can take a while.

- The detective got to casually toss me aside after beating and robbing me (without even removing my handcuffs), and Jordie considered this "resolution."

The detective was warned for his actions as I did not, and still don't, consider his actions as worth a ban. You were the victim of an overly-aggressive member of security and had a bad round because of it, it happens.

- Instead of telling the detective to give me my things back, he teleported me into a locked room with only *most* of my items.

As the detective was clearly not amenable to you and had already by this time moved all your items I could see to the evidence room; I saw it easiest to just teleport you there and let you get the items and offered to spawn you anything that was missing.

- The detective got to play out the rest of his round as if nothing happened. Ditto the sec officer.

See above; On a side note, you did not talk to me about a sec officer at all.

Jordie warned *me* not to OOC in IC

Nothing out of the ordinary here; don't do it.

[Flatoftheblade]

I'm aware that you have to investigate and actually talk to people alleged of shitsecurity and get both sides of the story. I am aware that people falsely ahelp that they are being unfairly victimized by security and you cannot take them at face value.

But:
- I had committed no crime whatsoever and was being threatened with permabrigging.
- The detective continued to beat me for several minutes after you told me that you were supposedly talking to him, and the beating continued until seconds before he dumped me off, cuffed and naked, and walked away.
- You apparently did a terrible job of educating him on what he was doing wrong, because all you did was prevent him from permabrigging me in the end, and didn't seem to care about him holding me for 10-15 minutes, stealing all of my gear, and beating the crap out of me. As evidenced by your failure to get him to return my things, the fact that you considered the case "resolved" seconds after he had just been harmbatoning me (which I told you about), and the fact that he left me cuffed and you didn't tell him to uncuff me.
- When you replied to my third ahelp, you said you were "already speaking to the detective," which implies that you did in fact get my ahelps but didn't bother to reply with a simple "on it," which is just basic etiquette.

This should have been an extremely easy and straightforward case for any reasonably competent admin, but you mucked about for several minutes while he was clearly abusing his job position and griefing me without me doing anything criminal. You were actually worse than useless, because I only got stunned, grabbed and beaten down because I was admin PMing you, and I probably could have ended up running outside the brig cuffed and naked without getting beaten up if I didn't waste my time with the mistaken impression that you were actually there to help me.

Basically the takeaway I get from this is that you believe that security can assault, arrest, detain, torture and fuck with innocent people for extended periods of time as long as they at least eventually release the person at some point and don't kill them. I don't see how you can possibly claim that you in any way corrected the detective's behavior. I didn't necessarily require a ban of the detective, but you could have at least had him give me my stuff, uncuff me, and let me go without beating me down, a lot sooner than you did anything in this instance.

[Flatoftheblade]

Also, there's one specific thing I really must address:

As the detective was clearly not amenable to you and had already by this time moved all your items I could see to the evidence room; I saw it easiest to just teleport you there and let you get the items and offered to spawn you anything that was missing.

You're a freaking ADMIN. You TELL HIM to give me my stuff back. His opinion of me is irrelevant. This response of yours is simply pathetic, and it confirms that you did not at all educate the detective on how not to grief.

[Flatoftheblade]

Just would like to point out that it has been a month with nobody other than the involved admin touching this at all. I have not played on the server since and have no intention of doing so based on my experience, but I wanted to say for the record, to anyone who finds this thread, that this admin team is completely incompetent. Go to LLA for a similar "hands off" style of adminship but with vastly more competent, professional and friendly admins.

P.S. - You claim I didn't mention the officer, but I actually did in the ahelps (which you implied you received when you told me "already speaking to the detective").

[Brotemis]

I made a passing glance at this complaint.


And thats all it deserved, if even that. I dont see any reason to take any sort of action here

[Deuryn]

I work in food service.
There are two ways to deal with customer complaints:

-Oh, I'm sorry sir, it won't happen again, I'll tear a strip off him as soon as it slows down.
-Hey guys, sorry about that, would you like me to replace your meal for you?

Coincidentally, there are two types of customer complainers:

-Asshats
-People who are upset, but civil while they explain what's wrong.

Polite people get their meal replaced, and sometimes comped. Asshats will get it maaaaybe replaced if it's the only way I can get them to leave me alone. But they will inevitably be laughed at in the back.

Not to mention. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I will never punish an admin for lowballing a punishment. Unless it's 2beard. Then everytime.

[Flatoftheblade]

He didn't "lowball a punishment," he completely and utterly failed to let the detective know that there was anything wrong with his behavior (as evidenced by the detective's actions up until the second Jordie ruled this "resolved"). And I never once stated that my issue was that the detective wasn't banned (I even explicitly refuted that, when Jordie incorrectly brought it up as if it were my objection, which it was not). But apparently the entire admin team here has poor reading comprehension and logical reasoning ability. Any attempt at discussion is futile. Goodbye.

[Deuryn]

Alright, let me rephrase. You're being an asshat. You have no proof of how he dealt with the detective, only that you didn't like the end result. If you're being this much of an asshat here, I don't really want to see how much of a prick you were being on the server to Jordie at the time, and I REALLY don't want to see how you were treating the detective. There's two sides to every story. Yours is remarkably one sided.

"You're a freaking ADMIN. You TELL HIM to give me my stuff back"

And when the demands start, I stop caring. You don't get to make demands, when you're the one coming to us with nothing to offer.

[CreationPro]

"You found paradise on LLA, had a good playtime, made a good living. The admins protected you; and there were courts of law. And you didn't need a friend of me. But uh, now you come to me and you say -- "Don Jordie0608 give me justice." -- But you don't ask with respect. You don't offer friendship. You don't even think to not call me shitmin."

Flatoftheblade, You are so self-entitled you are literally repulsive. Your thread is a disgrace to the LLA community and you need to change your attitude. If you gave us a clear-cut case of where you think the admin in question had wronged and left all your personal attacks aside, you would have received a different response. But as of now? Ha-ha. I am sure you could've done better.

"I haven't played for a month and have no intention of playing here again"

Now ask yourself, who cares? You only managed to bring hostility to the table as of now.

[Flatoftheblade]

Flatoftheblade, You are so self-entitled you are literally repulsive.

That hurts my feelings; I've always considered myself someone who was only *figuratively* repulsive.

[CreationPro]

Nope. Both.

[elyina]

there's been a headmin decision, and you've admitted yourself you don't care, so this is being closed.