[Saegrimr]John Peppercorn - Don't kill liggers?

[Fourty2]

Byond account and character name: Fourty2 -- John Peppercorn / Peppercorn's Punishme


Admin: Saegrim


Time incident occured: 20:07:21 (-6 GMT)


Detailed summary: I was playing as a pAI for Angelina Pershing, driving her mulebot, A random borg came up and started shooting the mulebot, I tried to escape, and the AI activated fire alarms trapping Angelina and I, she got off of the mulebot to repair it, and the borg bashed, flashed, and drug her into space. I ahelped the issue, saying a random borg just killed a ligger, to which saegrim replied: "Are lizards Human?" Now, when a staff member answers my question with a question, I tend to get a bit agitated, as that's not doing their duty in my eyes which is to help players in a timely manner, and not suggest in a veiled way that they go look for the information themselves. Being agitated, I replied "Sorry, thought I got an Admin, not a question box. But since lizards are valid, I'll just kill any lizard I see as a borg." Being sarcastic, and pointing out the flaw in the logic of his argument/question. He immediately replies, "Should I just silicon ban you now to prevent problems in the future?". I was a bit taken back at his won ton waving of his admin stick rather than confronting the situation in a regular manner. I asked, "How is one lizard valid, but not another?", no reply, i did however get jobbanned from AI/silicon, with the reply "You asked for it". This didn't resolve the situation or question at all, simply escalated because of one admin's percieved superiority and perception that their time is more important than anyone elses (especially when there is a legitimate conversation taking place that an admin is too lazy to take part in)

Edited: clarified timezone

[TechnoAlchemist]

Format is [Saegrimr] John Peppercorn - Don't kill liggers?

[Keekenox]

I was in the same round as a lizard disguised as Angelina Pershing, the borg came up and started murdering me, so I ahelped it and asked "Are borgs allowed to kill lizards" Or something to that extent and he just replies "Are lizards human" I asked "What keeps a borg from just killing all the lizards", and he said I needed to have a more detailed look at the silicon laws before I try and play any silicon roles.

Rather than actually answering any questions he just proceeded to act in a condescending manor instead of actually answer any questions.

Also I am requesting the ahelp logs of that round.

[Fourty2]

Fixed Format, sorry, misunderstood formatting.

[Okand37]

To be honest, if you had read the full rules page you would understand whether or not silicons are or are not, as it is under silicon policy in the rules page. You can that here https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Silicon_Po ... con_Policy and should about have the answers to all your questions.

[Saegrimr]

Oh I see now.
Fourty was the PAI for the ash ligger, and is mad that his 100% always valid owner got killed by a silicon.

This makes even more sense now.

[Fourty2]

To be honest, if you had read the full rules page you would understand whether or not silicons are or are not, as it is under silicon policy in the rules page. You can that here https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Silicon_Po ... con_Policy and should about have the answers to all your questions.

Edit: realized your reply was to keekenox's post.

A Game-admin told me that lizards are valid. Yes, I know not to violate rule 1, but the borg that killed us had no reason to kill us which was the point I was trying to illustrate, before I was banned, and felt the need to bring this to the forums.

When an admin bans you for asking a question about the validity of a murder, what's the point in going to admins with questions anymore?

I don't know if saegrimr is having a bad time IRL, and if he is, I apologize and wish him good will. But you should not bring a negative attitude into a conversation off the bat.

[Wyzack]

He banned you for saying "LOL OKAY LIZARDS ARE VALID I AM GOING TO JUST KILL ALL LIZARDS THEN" which clearly shows that you didn't understand the fucking rules at all and seemingly still do not

[Okand37]

I wasn't referencing rule 1, I was referencing silicon policy as an answer to your first question and keekenox's post.

[Saegrimr]

Wait did you two come from some kinda furfag friendly server where silicons have to listen to half-centaur half-cat abominations?

[Keekenox]

Wait did you two come from some kinda furfag friendly server where silicons have to listen to half-centaur half-cat abominations?

... what ...

[Fourty2]

Apparently Wyczak didn't read this part of the complaint. So i'll re-quote it.

I asked, "How is one lizard valid, but not another?", no reply, i did however get jobbanned from AI/silicon, with the reply "You asked for it".

Also,

Wait did you two come from some kinda furfag friendly server where silicons have to listen to half-centaur half-cat abominations?

Another shining example of Saegrimr's ability to maintain decorum.

[Saegrimr]

My bad, I can't think of any other reason why asimov would be so hard to grasp for you.

[Fourty2]

My bad, I can't think of any other reason why asimov would be so hard to grasp for you.

Veiled insults are a great way to make your point.

I didn't display a lack of grasp of asimov. I simply asked how one lizard was valid, and not another. Then you banned me because you're impatient.

[Keekenox]

Wait did you two come from some kinda furfag friendly server where silicons have to listen to half-centaur half-cat abominations?

This is exactly the thing that caused me to come here to the forums in the first place, instead of having a rational and informative discussion, he would rather act like a complete asshole. Extremely useful when you are trying to get clarification on rules and then having my questions replied to with more questions and get replied to with sarcasm and a condescending attitude.

[Saegrimr]

Because situations in this game aren't so black and white.
One ligger can be valid for many many reasons than another. Yours just happened to be 100% valid all the time anyway.

[onleavedontatme]

Saeg has spent so long policing /jp/ and sybil that he's forgotten how to communicate like a regular person please excuse him.

[Saegrimr]

Kor please, don't coddle the lizards anymore than they think they have a right to be.

[Keekenox]

Saeg has spent so long policing /jp/ and sybil that he's forgotten how to communicate like a regular person please excuse him.

Is that REALLY an excuse though?

[Wyzack]

All right I will walk you through this then. Law one states borgs must prevent harm. This law takes precedence over the others. Lizards are not human. If a lizard harms humans it becomes a threat that must be neutralized as per law one, unless doing so would cause more human harm

[tedward1337]

Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.

[Fourty2]

All right I will walk you through this then. Law one states borgs must prevent harm. This law takes precedence over the others. Lizards are not human. If a lizard harms humans it becomes a threat that must be neutralized as per law one, unless doing so would cause more human harm

But when Keekenox and I arrived on the station, we did not harm any humans. A human started shooting us with a laser.

Saeg has spent so long policing /jp/ and sybil that he's forgotten how to communicate like a regular person please excuse him.

That's understandable. I just don't think that banning someone for asking what is in my eyes a legitimate question is feasible.

[oranges]

saeg needs to stop banning people when they ask for clarification about the rules, not everyone is actually doing it to be a shitter, they may just not know

edit:
"But since lizards are valid, I'll just kill any lizard I see as a borg."

nevermind he deserved it

[Fourty2]

saeg needs to stop banning people when they ask for clarification about the rules, not everyone is actually doing it to be a shitter, they may just not know

edit:
"But since lizards are valid, I'll just kill any lizard I see as a borg."

nevermind he deserved it

I genuinely in the circumstance given, do not see how "Are lizards human?" Is a legitimate response.

[oranges]

There is a long line of banned people who when told X was possible, immediately took X to the most extreme situation possible, somehow forgetting that our first rule is 1) Don't be a dick

It's hardly surprising the admins don’t' have very much patience for someone who is obviously going to be trouble because they immediately look for the most extreme logical flaw in a ruling.

Why should we waste time catering to you?

[Keekenox]

The reason he said that was because Sae wasn't even giving a legitimate response, he kept being condescending instead of giving a straight answer, which understandably makes people angry.

[oranges]

Bullshit

Saeg replies with "Are lizards human"

He replied with
"Sorry, thought I got an Admin, not a question box. But since lizards are valid, I'll just kill any lizard I see as a borg"

Specifically
"Since lizards are valid"

This implies he was aware of the ruling about lizards being valid for borgs as anyone who wasn't would have to ask saeg to clarify (off original topic but this is a dumb response saeg),
so instead of just accepting that in this case the borg was acting within the defined server meta, your guy here decided to be a dick.

All he had to say instead was:
"I'm aware of the ruling but I believe this borg was being a dick, so please investigate"

Then the admin can deal with the incident and the silicon ban doesn't go into play.

[Hornygranny]

fuck off idiot