Okand37

[Jembo]

A minor complaint about my interaction with them about a week ago within an adminhelp. I work like 60 hours a week so I didn't have time last week. I'll give a brief story of the events that lead up to what happened but my complaint is mostly about their attitude in helping direct the playstyle of newer players away from being toxic and walking the line of a ban.

I end up being HoP and the captain who is clearly a new player walks into my office. He leaves the doors open and an assistant, who is also clearly a new player, and the chaplain stumble inside as the doors close behind them, and the captain leaves. The Assistant spews out something in a mix of caps and gibberish and starts swinging a toolbox around, and the chaplain doesn't do much but stand there. I find disablers to be completely ineffective and shoot the assistant into crit while searching for my cuffs. As I was completely unprepared for this and caught with my pants down. The AI shits the bed and screams murder, and the chaplain starts bible thumping our now even more mentally challenged friend. I pull out my baton and keep him chain stunned, but the chaplain keeps helping him up and he's running around everywhere. Eventually the HoS shows up in full gear, thank god I though. As I'm chasing the assistant around my office I accidentally hit the HoS one time, the chaplain helps the assistant up again. And this time grabs the HoS's gun and stuns me.

The HoS cuffs me and drags me to the brig and the chaplain drags the assistant who is also cuffed to the brig. I'm confused so I ask the HoS what is going on and he states I'm being arrested for interfering with his arrest. I'm completely dumbfounded by this logic as I was the person who was potentially under threat, and by the fact that the HoS is arresting another head which isn't something he's suppose to do without the captains permission from what I recall. Obviously if I was running around handing out all access, or had a double bladed e-sword I wouldn't contest the arrest.

During my time in the brig, the HoS lets the chaplain into my cell where he beats me until I'm retarded. He then lets the chaplain help himself to my stuff outside my cell which consists of my retractable baton. But nothing super important really as he bibles my head till my brain oozes out of my ears. I'm brigged for 4 and a half minutes, and I ask the HoS why and ask the captain what's going on and for help. I'm ignored as the captain is a new player and fucked off to stare at the xenobiology players breed slimes for the whole round. The HoS then fucks off completely ignoring any attempt of conversation as to why I'm arrested outside I interfered with an arrest.

So I figure I'll adminhelp as this is all in all rather shitty behavior for a player, have the admin tell them. Hey cut that out and really not cool and you're being a dick. But rather I get a response of it's an IC issue. I disagree with this, but Okand insists. I tell them that this really isn't something that you want to remain an IC issue as you're not gonna like the results of leaving something like this in the hands of players. In the heat of the moment I most likely worded that like K gonna space him thanks for the okay. They continue on and say if I escalate the situation anymore it will no longer be an IC issue and they will have to step in.

So we get into this big debate of if the HoS had the right to arrest my as the HoP because I obviously clicked on him by accident while trying to contain a grey tider. Okand insists that I could of had lethal intent because my weapon could bi-pass the riotshield and could of killed the HoS, and the intent is all that matters on the HoS brigging the HoP. I disagreed and still do with that and state that it's retarded to brig someone for an obvious accident let alone let their stuff get stolen and beaten into a derp. I also state that it's their opinion on what lethal intention as literally anyone on station can have that and not following the simple rules. Primarily don't be a dick. I also said that if I was a sec officer and accidentally tased another member of sec trying to chase someone down that this wouldn't even be an argument. They told me not to rule lawyer them, and if I had a problem go to a headmin. I don't seek vengeance against the HoS which I planned on demoting him to an assistant due to fear of getting banned by Okand.

My only complaint is that we have a lot of new players coming into the server, I wasn't asking for a sec ban on the person being a dick. I just wanted them to know what they did was wrong, and I was told basically to deal with it. Maybe I'm wrong now, most likely I'm going to be told to deal with it again. Just felt like putting this out there for everyone to point and laugh how a downy assistant got me braindead and brigged for four and a half minutes.

[Wyzack]

This is a game about misinformation. No one ever has as the same information about your situation as you do, and even if you tell them everything there is no guarantee they can trust you on what you are saying. This goes doubly for a position of power that can be an antag such as the HoP. The HoS probably did not know too much more than "fight in caps office" and arrives to a scene of yakkity sax. Then you take a swing at him. Were i in his position my brain would immediately jump to cult, so you getting arrested is not much of a surprise.

I can also attest to the fact that when i was an admin, the only thing more frustrating than players fucking REFUSING to stop demanding that OOC action be taken against someone who was mean to them is the ever classic "LMAO OKAY THEN I GUESS IT IS FINE IF I KILL AND SPACE HIM THEN P;" kneejerk reaction to being told no.

Keep in mind i am not even an admin anymore and this is purely conjecture on my part but hopefully it helps you understand it a bit better

[Jembo]

Look I'm not here to argue the point, I just felt like the HoS was excessively being bad at their job. While also being an asshole, so I asked if the admin could bwoink them so next time they're not as much a dick. If I was just brigged I wouldn't of cared, but he let the chaplain bible me until I was retarded. He wouldn't listen to me at all a fellow head of staff. And he was present when the chaplain helped himself to my stuff. Being told it's an IC issue, but you can't do anything about it because you might get punished sucks. Although maybe they though I was going to go for a more extreme measure. I just wanted to get other peoples in put on this matter.

[Raphaella]

Seeing as you want other people's input... I was milling around during that round, but I wasn't paying all too much attention and it was, indeed, a week ago, so I can't remember everything that happened. Anyway!

Disablers are plenty effective, so I'm not entirely sure what your problem was with them. Myself, I would've grabbed the zipties from my locker (the HoP gets those, right?) and just batoned the assistant down. Of course, can't really judge you for acting in the heat of the moment, but lasering him straight into crit seems... excessive, to the point that when the HoS runs in on this and is then, accidentally or not, batoned down by you... it's understandable they were ignoring your "it was just an accident!" and opted to brig you.

Letting the Chaplain loot your stuff was definitely dickish, but I'm unaware of what precisely happened. Maybe he wasn't paying attention, maybe he considered you incompetent and the Chaplain considerably more so. Letting him book you, while also just a tad dickish, is something negligible that's easily resolved by an incredibly simple-to-make chem, so I'd say that's an IC issue.

As you said, I wouldn't be surprised if they believed you were going to go for something more extreme, considering you lasered the fuck outta the assistant in the first place and, from what I saw of you in deadchat later on, had a rather aggressive tone.

Personally, while I agree that the HoS wasn't too great, I don't think they were criminally incompetent or anything. I think you made too much of an issue out of what is essentially a medium brig sentence, having to grab some mannitol, and losing your baton over an unfortunate series of misunderstandings. Again, just my personal view, and I'm probably too tired to have made much sense, but you did say you wanted other people's input!

[Jembo]

Thank you for responding, I'm happy I got an outside view of the situation. I had an issue keeping the assistant down because as stated earlier the chaplain kept bibling them and help intenting them up. Before I could get cuffs on. The reason I lethals over disablers is because I'm a bad shot and if I land three lasers at least the target is injuried and moving slowly. If I land three disables they'll move slow for a bit and it'll wear off. Or in this situation they'll just get back up after shaken. The HoS actually opened the door and saw I was chain stunning the assistant to keep him down despite it not working because of the help intent chaplain. And yes I was angry in dead chat, I had my stuff stolen, and was unable to defend myself because of it. While I was inside medbay trying to get mannitol. I still got cloned later and kept a level head though the whole round.

I personally feel like shitty sec players are gifted too much freedom and mostly given the benefit of the doubt in almost all situations. In game as well as in OOC they are universally trusted as can do no wrong. As seen in your statement defending their actions as, not paying attention, and you look incompetent so it's okay to let him have your stuff. Which is my issue with dealing with shitty sec players, because let's say I wanted to demote the HoS for overstepping his authority. I now not only have to fight the HoS, I have to fight all of sec, and most likely the crew. And it's an IC issue I'm trying to demote them for their actions so if I get killed / lynched because of it. Well IC issue sure whatever, but if they get demoted or killed while in the process of trying to remove them from their seat? I might have to deal with getting banned?

I see now that I had a chance to type it out, and talk with some other players that my problem isn't so much with Okand. But with how sec is treated and protected as a whole, whoever wants to delete this or whatever go ahead.

[onleavedontatme]

I see now that I had a chance to type it out, and talk with some other players that my problem isn't so much with Okand. But with how sec is treated and protected as a whole, whoever wants to delete this or whatever go ahead.

I guess this is resolved then