[Okand37] CrazyKristi - Unjust tempban

[crazykristi]

Byond account and character name: crazykristi - Andrea Aleria
Admin: Okand37
Time incident occured: 23:27 GMT/Servertime - 21-12-2016
Detailed summary:
I was getting attacked by some people who self-antagged. I asked adminhelp on it. Okand37 responded, but I did not see it due to being engaged in a fight at that moment. Also, right after, deathchat swamped the notice away, so i didn't notice it. About 1 minute later, after not getting a reply. I pointed the same issue out on OOC chat and asked an admin to look into it. I did not call out any names, or ingame info. I just said 2 people were self-antagging and I asked an admin to look into it. See this screenshot for info: https://tgstation13.download/dip/discordimageproxy.php/attachments/ ... nknown.png
chatlog: http://pastebin.com/ACiG8zH9

First off, regardless of what I said, I am convinced a warning should be given first that I should use adminhelp (which i used before but according to my info at that point, I had not gotten a reply!).
Secondly, since I was not aware that calling an admin on OOC because 2 people are selfantagging (I clearly did not call out any names) was a breach of the rules. I have played for months on TGStation and I am fully aware of the rules. Apparently there are some nuances to it which make admins behave in inconsistent ways in this regard. This also I think should either be explained before tempbanning or should be clearly explained in the rules (take note, suggestion!).
Thirdly, afterwards I did not manage to settle this issue in a agreeable way with the admin. He insisted his decision was right, I am convinced it was not. Eventually I just told him fair enough and played on.
Last and finally, due to the impulsive and reckless actions of this admin, the people actually griefing were not caught. At the round end, I confirmed at least one of them was self-antagging. Other people (including Bill Quack) called this person by name on OOC chat, but did not get reprimanded or banned by Okand37. This not just a failing of admin action against REAL rulebreaks, but also very inconsistent work by the admin.

Considering these reasons, I want my ban reason removed due to the situation there and the admin acting irrationally and impulsively. Secondly, I pointed out some suggestions in this post. Please take them to heart.

[onleavedontatme]

It's understandable that you were frustrated by perceived rulebreaking, but IC in OOC is generally a zero tolerance policy, and very clearly outlined in the rules. If you're having trouble getting a response from admins, you can join #supportbus at irc.rizon.net and ask for help there.

[Okand37]

You adminhelped the following situation:
[23:24:22]ADMIN: HELP: CrazyKristi/(Andrea Aleria): i was getting attacked by several people. are people illegally self antagging? - heard by 3 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.

to which I replied
[23:24:56]ADMIN: PM: Okand37/(Verena Knox)->CrazyKristi/(Andrea Aleria): Could you elaborate more into the situation?

You didn't reply, but later said in OOC
[23:26:55]OOC: Andrea Aleria/CrazyKristi : gotta love it when people self antag without being antag. you know that's bannable offense right?
[23:27:16]OOC: Andrea Aleria/CrazyKristi : spotted 2 self antaggers, one of them killed me

and then I banned you for 15 minutes for IC in OOC
[23:27:49]ADMIN: Okand37/(Verena Knox) has banned crazykristi.
Reason: CrazyKristi/(Andrea Aleria)
This will be removed in 15 minutes.
with the following reason:
(2016-12-21 23:27:34) Banned for 15 minutes - Please don't IC in OOC, especially when an admin said they were looking into it.

With that in mind, if you aren't understanding which part of this is IC, its specifically this line
[23:27:16]OOC: Andrea Aleria/CrazyKristi : spotted 2 self antaggers, one of them killed me

If you have any logs to present that showed that other individuals had listed this problem in OOC before the round had ended, then I'd be more than happy to look it over, and would have been more than happy to look into the situation-but that doesn't give you an excuse to break the rules to get my attention if you didn't see my message.

[crazykristi]

It's understandable that you were frustrated by perceived rulebreaking, but IC in OOC is generally a zero tolerance policy, and very clearly outlined in the rules. If you're having trouble getting a response from admins, you can join #supportbus at irc.rizon.net and ask for help there.

I think you're the missing the point. Firstof, people did IC in OOC. I did not according to what I know about the rules. I did not give any identifiable ingame info. I did not give any info on which characters were rulebreaking. I wanted an admin to PM me and there were 4 admins online at that moment. I think it's fair then to try on OOC chat to ask the admin for help. Besides, what part of my chat is IC? I see NONE.

@Okand37: We discussed this ingame, and this should be clearly explained in the rules. It is not now. Also, besides all of that, you might just have reminded me of your reply and asked me again to PM you and take it off OOC. But you were not paying attention obviously. Also, you did take NONe measures against Bill Quack. I'm sorry but your response was WAY out of line. We have discussed and we did not come an agreement. That's why I'm posting here. I do eventually demand a formal apology from you. This is not how proper adminwork should be done. The real rulebreakers were not caught. And the round after, they were at it again. I'm sorry but this is just SAD.

[Okand37]

3. Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel.

As said above, the specific line in question is the primary concern of breaking rule 3.
[23:27:16]OOC: Andrea Aleria/CrazyKristi : spotted 2 self antaggers, one of them killed me
If you're not quite sure how this breaks rule 3, I'd be more than happy to break it down for you:
'spotted 2 self antaggers' is saying you've spotted two people you allegedly believe to be self antagging for their IC actions. Referencing their IC actions in OOC is against this rule.
'one of them killed me' is saying you've been killed. Referencing your in character state of life, injury, or death is referencing IC information in OOC and is against the rules.

[Saegrimr]

I did not give any identifiable ingame info. I did not give any info on which characters were rulebreaking.

Do not talk about the current round in OOC. At all. Zero. Hard line stop. Do not pass.

I'm sorry but this is just SAD.

Sad!

[crazykristi]

3. Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel.

Yes, so? I still do not understand how what I said was IC. Also, you must understand that I was quite frustrated at that moment as I was trying to escape from them for a while. Also, lastly, constantly repeating the same argument is not going to convince me. And you are nitpicking on literally 1 single word. I'm sorry, but I then strongly have to disagree with the decision because it ignores the whole situation.

@saegrimr: my OOC post was clearly related to my adminhelp message. I'm sorry but after not getting a reply (according to my perception) you must understand that I try OOC chat to get attention from an admin.

Now finally, Okand37. I see that discussion with you is futile. We have a strong disagreement and our arguments can not convince eachother. Now, I do know now that this is YOUR interpretation of the rules and I will take this into account in the future. Hey, you're the admin, so you can be dictator of the rules. And I am aware of that concept and I respect it.

But still, since there was clear confusion about the situation, I do still demand to have the tempban taken away from notes if it is there.

[Okand37]

I apologise that you do not feel the situation was concluded justly, but you broke the rules and were banned for it, if you're still unable to understand the reasoning as to how this breaks rule 3
Mentioning ANYTHING related to the IC round, regardless of how vague it is or how much you believe everyone already knows it, is still referencing the IC round in OOC. Please don't do it!!

When you believe you don't get a reply, you're more than welcome to adminhelp again, ask in OOC, or ask in #supportbus, but that doesn't mean you should reference the issue (when it relates to IC information!) in OOC to get the admins attention. I hope that helps you to understand why this was against the rules for the future! Thanks! : )

[TehSteveo]

This really is not an actionable complaint when you are obviously in the wrong. I'm not sure how to explain or spell it out any further than has been already stated in this thread. You broke one the more simple rules which resulted in the typical short fifteen minute break. Don't go to OOC giving away information that pertains to the round as that exactly what you did.