MSO DCMA F13 Claim?

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Wed May 03, 2017 9:17 am #300690

Bottom post of the previous page:

Danowar wrote:I could probably take my assets back at any time. I'm just going to wait for now though. All I would want is proper credit if it actually goes open source.

Yeah, I guess.

Taking them back too early would just be plain spriteful.

420weedscopes · Wed May 03, 2017 12:24 pm

bring back ban requests for a DemonFiren thread

Kyrah Abattoir · Wed May 03, 2017 3:07 pm

DrPillzRedux wrote:Honestly, someone should tell Bethesda about the 2d ripoff of their IP. I'm sure they'll love the rape feature.

I've done so numerous times on SL, with no response from Bethesda. My belief is that they don't give a fuck about small fishes.

MrStonedOne wrote:As for the dmca:
After I get some questions answered I'll start issuing more dmca's. The RU version of the server is hosted by OVH.FR, they have copyright law. I might have to fork out money for a legal translator but submitting a french version of a DMCA does seem to be possible.

No DMCA in Europe, you'll probably find an equivalent law but it will/might have different limitations.

MrStonedOne wrote: And to anybody partial to take fallout13's side on this matter: Listen up, I'm talking to you now.

All they have to do is open source, and this all ends. That's it. Open source does not mean they have to accept pull requests, or even take other people's code submissions, it just means that the current code the server is running has to be available to the public.

You know as well as I do that it's all about control, the whole point of not disclosing the source of an ss13 server, is so they can cram their vision down everyone's throat and not end up with offshoot servers potentially wresting that control off of them.

Woo looks like i'm late to the party anyway.

*shrugs*

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Wed May 03, 2017 3:27 pm #300693

That's exactly the point and reasoning of closed source code.

When servers have a content or gimmick that brings players to their server, they want to control it and keep the players (and potentially money) flowing.

The reasoning behind hiding source code is how easy someone can use it and offer a server and dwindle your playerbase and potential donors and sales away.

Edit; and I say this as someone who locked down their codebase.

I had a small server but enthusiastic and good coders who would code.
I did it because of a few scummy banned players that ran lies through image boards and stole my players using my code.
And my coders sure as shit didn't want to code for them, or let their code be used that way.

And that's why I speak from experience of why people do this.

Danowar · Post by **Danowar** » Wed May 03, 2017 5:56 pm #300694

This was more of an issue back when there were three or so major FO13 projects. There was the International server hosted by Angelic. Wasteland13, which was formed by Godsring and Superballs after people got sick of dealing with Angelic. And lastly, the Russian FO13 project that kept chugging along in the back. All three were closed source and based off a really old version of /tg/ code. I was originally a part of WL13, but then that went up in flames and Angelic supposedly sold off his server to someone else and stopped hosting as well. Since Godsring and the Russians are working together, there really isn't any competition left, so going open source now wouldn't be as detrimental I guess.

Kyrah Abattoir · Wed May 03, 2017 6:59 pm

Heh I would rather scuttle the ship than hand it over. But that's how I am. And they aren't me

Doctor Pork · Post by **Doctor Pork** » Wed May 03, 2017 7:05 pm #300696

Wew laddies. Btfo.

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Wed May 03, 2017 9:39 pm #300697

DemonFiren wrote:
Danowar wrote:I could probably take my assets back at any time. I'm just going to wait for now though. All I would want is proper credit if it actually goes open source.
Yeah, I guess.

Taking them back too early would just be plain spriteful.

fucking ligger carlos

The Ultimate Chimera · Wed May 03, 2017 9:56 pm

OhChildflayer · Thu May 04, 2017 9:20 pm

DemonFiren wrote:
Danowar wrote:I could probably take my assets back at any time. I'm just going to wait for now though. All I would want is proper credit if it actually goes open source.
Yeah, I guess.

Taking them back too early would just be plain spriteful.

Ms. Frizzle's class: Marcooooo...

Post by **Rockdtben** » Fri May 05, 2017 7:13 pm #300700

MrStonedOne wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:Against my better judgment I'm contemplating getting involved. I've read the AGPL3 and realized the license makes this dispute less technical than I initially thought, and I would downright enjoy tearing apart a fair use defense.

Plus I think it would give me a basis to put "Space Lawyer" on my business card.
You were cucked by levelheadedness

I have been informed that GodRing will be releasing the source.

What does the timeline look on this?

Kyrah Abattoir · Fri May 05, 2017 9:29 pm

I was kind of looking forward to a court case. There has yet to be a serious case involving the AGPL licenses and i'd be curious to know if it would hold in court at all.

It's obviously a double edged sword to actually go to those lengths considering how it could break the status quo. It's not like 100% of the code is covered by the AGPL, (the ss13 community surely love their layers of lawyering).

Out of curiousity, don't you need money to go to court? (if you want to win obviously)

Post by **oranges** » Fri May 05, 2017 9:52 pm #300702

what makes you think the AGPL license wouldn't hold? copyleft is a fairly well established area of legal research, the fact that none of the licenses have been tested in a court are more indicative that they're probably pretty strong so people just obey the terms.

Kyrah Abattoir · Fri May 05, 2017 10:24 pm

I have my reasons but this isn't the best place for having this debate.

Fri May 05, 2017 10:29 pm

The test would be if you can apply the copyright to the unlicensed output of the program and use that to dmca servers or otherwise take down servers.

This is where agpl has a grey area that gpl doesn't. Luckily in our case it doesn't matter, the server provides unmodified and modified code resources to the client that is covered under the same agpl license, so just the join/ready/setup character html file and the minified css that powers it constitutes unlicensed distribution of direct assets that are agpl. and that alone is enough to dmca servers and would have likely been enough to get an court ordered relief from hosting with the server. (and what my dmca was based on)

AGPL however has a trump card, it prohibits any of use of the software if the terms are not followed (or rather, it only permits the use if the terms are followed) so its not as technical as some people try to make it out to be.

ColonicAcid · Fri May 05, 2017 11:40 pm

Sligneris wrote:

I guess it's time for us to unleash our 4chan armies.

LMAO.

I think at this point they should be more scared of digg instead of 4chan.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Sat May 06, 2017 1:13 am #300706

so is this a case of snowflake legal code

vcordie · Post by **vcordie** » Sat May 06, 2017 6:22 am #300707

wew boy they 'released' it, but it contains none of the fallout 13 code. do they think we're idiots? mso's gonna go ahead with the suit.

Kyrah Abattoir · Sat May 06, 2017 2:33 pm

vcordie wrote:wew boy they 'released' it, but it contains none of the fallout 13 code. do they think we're idiots? mso's gonna go ahead with the suit.

link?

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Sat May 06, 2017 2:58 pm #300709

ColonicAcid wrote:
Sligneris wrote:

I guess it's time for us to unleash our 4chan armies.
LMAO.

I think at this point they should be more scared of digg instead of 4chan.

Shh, nobody tell them that we have little-to-nothing to do with 4chan anymore.

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Sat May 06, 2017 3:25 pm #300710

You just told them

WalterJe · Post by **WalterJe** » Sat May 06, 2017 3:26 pm #300711

Breaking news:

Seems like they actually did it, at least they claim to.

Saucy sauce: https://github.com/BartNixon/Fallout13Beta

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat May 06, 2017 3:32 pm #300712

Do they really think this is a one-off license? In what world does posting current code with no intentions of posting the resulting changes to the code meet the terms and conditions of use?

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Sat May 06, 2017 3:34 pm #300713

Yeah you missed a pretty important part

Basically they're saying they're using tgstation code as a library so the viral part of agpl doesn't apply to them.

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Sat May 06, 2017 4:22 pm #300714

Maybe I got that backwards I don't know anymore

TheColdTurtle · Sat May 06, 2017 4:26 pm

So is this actually legal? Or can we finally see ss13 in court?

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Sat May 06, 2017 4:50 pm #300716

Probably not because that would contradict almost the entire purpose of GPL (making available the source code to everyone whom the software is distributed). They're probably running on some faulty interpretation.

Artwork doesn't fall under GPL though so that part's right I think.

Kyrah Abattoir · Sat May 06, 2017 5:16 pm

Well there is already existing texts about the limitations on the virality of the license regarding the linux kernel in relationship with programs interacting with it for example. At the end of the day tho the spirit of the license doesn't really matter as much as what the text states, there is a reason it is called "GPL version 3".

Post by **MrStonedOne** » Sat May 06, 2017 5:16 pm #300718

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.ht ... uleLicense

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat May 06, 2017 5:20 pm #300719

TheColdTurtle wrote:So is this actually legal? Or can we finally see ss13 in court?

Like MSO's FAQ explains. Everything, modular or not, must be added under GPL. So "smart russians" played themselves. Specifically, they're allowed to be less-restrictive but not more restrictive.

Post by **Armhulen** » Sat May 06, 2017 5:34 pm #300720

MrStonedOne wrote:https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.ht ... uleLicense

RIP

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Sat May 06, 2017 5:36 pm #300721

Kyrah Abattoir wrote:Well there is already existing texts about the limitations on the virality of the license regarding the linux kernel in relationship with programs interacting with it for example. At the end of the day tho the spirit of the license doesn't really matter as much as what the text states, there is a reason it is called "GPL version 3".

Spirit of the license is still useful because it gives the direction that the text is trying to go on. This is useful for giving brief laymen-understandable explanations on forums otherwise you'd just link the entire license like this.

420weedscopes · Sat May 06, 2017 10:32 pm

mso sweetie do you need anything from the artists this time around
like another statement or what

DrPillzRedux · Sun May 07, 2017 5:47 am

I know these degenerates like getting fucked in the ass but damn. Time to bring the kid and his mother to court.

Kyrah Abattoir · Sun May 07, 2017 6:17 am

No one is going to drag anyone to court over 2D spessmen.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sun May 07, 2017 7:06 am #300725

Kyrah Abattoir wrote:No one is going to drag anyone to court over 2D spessmen.

Should I give you a short list of things people have gone to court over to help you revise your opinion?

Post by **MrStonedOne** » Sun May 07, 2017 5:14 pm #300726

cedarbridge wrote:
Kyrah Abattoir wrote:No one is going to drag anyone to court over 2D spessmen.
Should I give you a short list of things people have gone to court over to help you revise your opinion?

give that list anyways.

Kyrah Abattoir · Sun May 07, 2017 5:54 pm

MrStonedOne wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
Kyrah Abattoir wrote:No one is going to drag anyone to court over 2D spessmen.
Should I give you a short list of things people have gone to court over to help you revise your opinion?
give that list anyways.

Yeah, should be entertaining to see what people are willing to spend a few years of salary on.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Sun May 07, 2017 6:13 pm #300728

MrStonedOne wrote:https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.ht ... uleLicense

kekd

fleure · Post by **fleure** » Sun May 07, 2017 8:31 pm #300729

lighting candles to summon Stallman in the hopes he will assist in these trying times

Remie Richards · Sun May 07, 2017 8:32 pm

fleure wrote:lighting candles to summon Stallman in the hopes he will assist in these trying times

oi prettyboy, where've you been?

fleure · Post by **fleure** » Sun May 07, 2017 8:40 pm #300731

drinking and sex dungeons mostly

and work

so much work

Remie Richards · Sun May 07, 2017 8:41 pm

Neat.
Stay classy fleure.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon May 08, 2017 3:40 am #300733

MrStonedOne wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
Kyrah Abattoir wrote:No one is going to drag anyone to court over 2D spessmen.
Should I give you a short list of things people have gone to court over to help you revise your opinion?
give that list anyways.

Sued Mattel claiming they invented a doll that Mattel had invented and patented several years previous and then the lawyer got sanctioned for throwing a fit through the proceedings and costing Mattel hundreds of thousands in legal fees.

Guy walked along railroad tracks and ended up getting his arm torn off by a passing train. Ended up creating a landmark legal case by trying to pull a stunt with the legal system of two states.

Guy wakes up to realize he's being bit on the hand by a giant roach; responds by smashing his hand into a nightstand.

Man attempts to sue Satan for ruining his life. Fails to properly assert the court's jurisdiction over Satan or Hell and fails to provide a means of serving Satan with Constitutionally-required notice.

Man sues the Dominican Republic because it rained on his vacation there.

Suing because the breakfast he was served at a fancy spa wasn't fancy enough.

It goes on and on but really. The amount of really stupid legal bullshit that goes through the system without even being noticed would blow your mind. 2d Spessmen is peanuts.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon May 08, 2017 6:21 am #300734

>suing satan

thank you

Post by **MrStonedOne** » Mon May 08, 2017 8:44 am #300735

Judge sues dry cleaners for 65 million dollars over missing pants

That suit spawned some great headlines:

Judge Who Lost Pants Forced to Rely on Briefs

Screemonster · Mon May 08, 2017 11:31 am

cedarbridge wrote:
Man sues the Dominican Republic because it rained on his vacation there.

Air Canada staff kicked Leduc off a plane when he wouldn’t move to the economy class seat he had paid for, from the business class seat he was sitting in. He responded by suing the airline for over $4,000.

clearly shitcurity he dindu nuffin and got removed from the plane 4noraisin

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon May 08, 2017 11:54 am #300737

MrStonedOne wrote:Judge sues dry cleaners for 65 million dollars over missing pants

That suit spawned some great headlines:

Judge Who Lost Pants Forced to Rely on Briefs

is it still a suit if the pants are missing?

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Mon May 08, 2017 1:27 pm #300738

so what's the plan operatives

their current legal defense is a hilariously stupid misinterpretation of the license that they could have read the FAQ and realized was wrong, so I'm curious if this will actually escalate

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon May 08, 2017 1:40 pm #300739

Qbopper wrote:so what's the plan operatives

their current legal defense is a hilariously stupid misinterpretation of the license that they could have read the FAQ and realized was wrong, so I'm curious if this will actually escalate

i thought they caved and were gonna go open sores
because otherwise mso will open some sores

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Mon May 08, 2017 2:53 pm #300740

Qbopper wrote:so what's the plan operatives

their current legal defense is a hilariously stupid misinterpretation of the license that they could have read the FAQ and realized was wrong, so I'm curious if this will actually escalate

We're waiting for the lawsuit to go through which means lots of motions to dismiss and back and forth.
It's out of our hands technically speaking.