/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Are you being intentionally obtuse right now

it is possible for a project to have additional mechanics and elements to it while keeping core gameplay. There are several things that need to be implemented for this to work properly. At its core, it is still SS13: employees on a station going about their business until antags come fuck stuff up, but it's incredibly disengenous to just call it a new map

captain sawrge wrote:Are you being intentionally obtuse right now

it is possible for a project to have additional mechanics and elements to it while keeping core gameplay. There are several things that need to be implemented for this to work properly. At its core, it is still SS13: employees on a station going about their business until antags come fuck stuff up, but it's incredibly disengenous to just call it a new map

Except for the creeping wave of death approaching the station and the pressure to get out before it reaches you and all that

Luke Cox wrote:

captain sawrge wrote:Are you being intentionally obtuse right now

it is possible for a project to have additional mechanics and elements to it while keeping core gameplay. There are several things that need to be implemented for this to work properly. At its core, it is still SS13: employees on a station going about their business until antags come fuck stuff up, but it's incredibly disengenous to just call it a new map

Except for the creeping wave of death approaching the station and the pressure to get out before it reaches you and all that

Yet a lot of the time we only have 30-40 minute rounds

I'm not saying that Planetary Station isn't allowed to have different core mechanics. If you think that the core mechanics of it are superior to the core game, that's a perfectly valid opinion. We just need to recognize that fact and take it into account when we implement this. Even if some of you see it as the same core game, I don't think a lot of other players are going to.

The moment planetstation (PS) mechanics becomes completely incompatible with space station 13 mechanics is the moment it needs to "move out of the house" and be its own codebase. With careful planning you could probably put off that reckoning forever and keep PS "in house". This feels ideal but at the same time I know it introduces extra work. Alternatively you could just fork out the codebase before doing anything major and proceed to do whatever you want. When/if you reached a point where you were happy with the product you could see if it was still by and large compatible with SS13 and try to "come back home".

What NOT to do is decide that it's perfectly fine to kick the parents out of their own house and hope the players are just as down with what you're doing with the house as they were with the old house. I mean I hope most of us are on the same page there. That's not even "throwing the baby out with the bathwater", it's more like "putting a big hole in the bathtub with the water and the baby still inside on the future promise of remodeling the bath tub into a hot tub and hoping the baby won't wander off in the meantime while the hybridized bath/hot tub is useless as either one of those things".

I mean realistically if PS started to cannibalize SS13 a fork would definitely be made no matter what. It would just come down to "the people in control" deciding if they wanted to stick with what we have already and force PS to become its own thing or essentially abandon SS13 for PS. If SS13 was abandoned I'd wager anything that someone would fork off the last space based version of TGstation and attempt to claim the niche TG would be abandoning as "the base version of SS13". Really hope it doesn't come to that personally.

Disclaimer: I wrote this at 5AM on no sleep, goodnight

it's tgstation you digusting heretic

If SS13 was abandoned I'd wager anything that someone would fork off the last space based version of TGstation and attempt to claim the niche TG would be abandoning as "the base version of SS13".

> Implying all that online will go from a new, shiny Planetstation with all those coders and spriters working on it to unmantained, stale fork
Just stop

InsaneHyena wrote:

If SS13 was abandoned I'd wager anything that someone would fork off the last space based version of TGstation and attempt to claim the niche TG would be abandoning as "the base version of SS13".

> Implying all that online will go from a new, shiny Planetstation with all those coders and spriters working on it to unmantained, stale fork
Just stop

We have a ton of people devving for this game, you could split them equally between two or maybe even three projects and still have each of those projects be more developmentally active than any other branch of the game.

Do you plan on forcing them to do it?

InsaneHyena wrote:Do you plan on forcing them to do it?

No I'm just saying my gut feeling is that there's a market for it if it comes to that, which I hope it doesn't. I hope "cool modular side version of SS13" stays "cool modular side version of SS13" and doesn't drift towards "SS13 as a game engine" like has happened with a few projects in the past.

Luke Cox wrote:One of the most hotly debated aspects of Planet Station has been how it's going to be implemented if/when it is completed. Alienating large chunks of the playerbase is a serious concern regardless of how well received the finished product is. If we are serious about implementing what is arguably a whole new game, we need to figure out how we're going to do it. I can think of three ways:

• Make Planetary Station the only mode on both Bagil and Sybil. Remove the base game entirely.
• Have one server run Planetary Station, and one run Space Station 13.
• Put Planetary Station into map rotation as a map.

If anyone has any other ideas, feel free to post them.

You forget option 4:

• Server 3

I have 4 cores and 8 threads to fuck with, the server currently only hits 60% capacity, and most of that is web traffic, something that wouldn't go up just from doing a server 3, and if it did, well all of the website side stuff is going to be moved to "The Cloud"™ in the coming months once i get off my ass and start the ball rolling on that project

I'm a simple player, I don't code nor offer much on the forums other than stupid ass suggestions like the limbless people acting like backpacks. But back to the topic, I've read over a good portion of the design document and this thread and I've seen both sides Reeing about its implementation. Luke seems like a reasonable man despite how much of a cuck he is when playing with him. I can see the appeal of this planetstation and while it is a neat idea, it doesn't feel like space station, it feels like colonial marines matches in which they actually let us go to planets rather than being stuck on the ship for fucking two hours. I enjoy colonial marines, but I also don't play it 24/7 because it gets fucking boring just fighting overpowered mobs and players.I feel like if TGstation became solely a planetstation game mode, I most likely would try it out, then most likely not play because it'll just be a different version of colonial marines but instead of marines it's a research crew with a sprinkle of evil guys hiding. However, it if it was its own server, or a game mode on its own that happens occasionally with normal space rounds I think it'd be more appealing in the long run. But, I'm just a pleb player that will be Reee'ed at for this so it is what it is.

SHTC wrote:I'm a simple player, I don't code nor offer much on the forums other than stupid ass suggestions like the limbless people acting like backpacks. But back to the topic, I've read over a good portion of the design document and this thread and I've seen both sides Reeing about its implementation. Luke seems like a reasonable man despite how much of a cuck he is when playing with him. I can see the appeal of this planetstation and while it is a neat idea, it doesn't feel like space station, it feels like colonial marines matches in which they actually let us go to planets rather than being stuck on the ship for fucking two hours. I enjoy colonial marines, but I also don't play it 24/7 because it gets fucking boring just fighting overpowered mobs and players.I feel like if TGstation became solely a planetstation game mode, I most likely would try it out, then most likely not play because it'll just be a different version of colonial marines but instead of marines it's a research crew with a sprinkle of evil guys hiding. However, it if it was its own server, or a game mode on its own that happens occasionally with normal space rounds I think it'd be more appealing in the long run. But, I'm just a pleb player that will be Reee'ed at for this so it is what it is.

I don't think you fully understand the goal of this project. The plan is to have it run largely the same as the game is now. Outside threats are intended more to give people something extra to do by having engineers fix up breaches mobs can get in, security picking off monsters that wander too close, etc.

captain sawrge wrote:

SHTC wrote:I'm a simple player, I don't code nor offer much on the forums other than stupid ass suggestions like the limbless people acting like backpacks. But back to the topic, I've read over a good portion of the design document and this thread and I've seen both sides Reeing about its implementation. Luke seems like a reasonable man despite how much of a cuck he is when playing with him. I can see the appeal of this planetstation and while it is a neat idea, it doesn't feel like space station, it feels like colonial marines matches in which they actually let us go to planets rather than being stuck on the ship for fucking two hours. I enjoy colonial marines, but I also don't play it 24/7 because it gets fucking boring just fighting overpowered mobs and players.I feel like if TGstation became solely a planetstation game mode, I most likely would try it out, then most likely not play because it'll just be a different version of colonial marines but instead of marines it's a research crew with a sprinkle of evil guys hiding. However, it if it was its own server, or a game mode on its own that happens occasionally with normal space rounds I think it'd be more appealing in the long run. But, I'm just a pleb player that will be Reee'ed at for this so it is what it is.

I don't think you fully understand the goal of this project. The plan is to have it run largely the same as the game is now. Outside threats are intended more to give people something extra to do by having engineers fix up breaches mobs can get in, security picking off monsters that wander too close, etc.

Like I said, If I wanted to deal with Mobs I'd play colonial marines and at least have a gun while I'm fixing walls and arresting disobedient marines.

I'm not going to get into it again, but obviously I disagree that it's "the same game". PK put it very well when he said that if it's really just a new map with some new features, there's shouldn't be any reason we can't maintain both. The fact that Kor insists that it has to be one or another should be your first hint that this is a much more drastic shift than he'll openly admit.

SHTC wrote:I'm a simple player, I don't code nor offer much on the forums other than stupid ass suggestions like the limbless people acting like backpacks. But back to the topic, I've read over a good portion of the design document and this thread and I've seen both sides Reeing about its implementation. Luke seems like a reasonable man despite how much of a cuck he is when playing with him.

Being a cuck IC is just too fun :^)

MrStonedOne wrote:

Luke Cox wrote:One of the most hotly debated aspects of Planet Station has been how it's going to be implemented if/when it is completed. Alienating large chunks of the playerbase is a serious concern regardless of how well received the finished product is. If we are serious about implementing what is arguably a whole new game, we need to figure out how we're going to do it. I can think of three ways:

• Make Planetary Station the only mode on both Bagil and Sybil. Remove the base game entirely.
• Have one server run Planetary Station, and one run Space Station 13.
• Put Planetary Station into map rotation as a map.

If anyone has any other ideas, feel free to post them.

You forget option 4:

• Server 3

I have 4 cores and 8 threads to fuck with, the server currently only hits 60% capacity, and most of that is web traffic, something that wouldn't go up just from doing a server 3, and if it did, well all of the website side stuff is going to be moved to "The Cloud"™ in the coming months once i get off my ass and start the ball rolling on that project

Since we never use server 3, I wasn't sure if it could handle a third round being run on it. If that's the case, my vote goes to forking this and running it as a new game on server 3. What are your thoughts on all of this, being host and all?

>forking

How many times do you have to be told this is not a viable option

In the past month:

61 authors have pushed 777 commits to all branches, excluding merges. On master, 1,520 files have changed and there have been 232,237 additions and 194,830 deletions.

It is not even remotely possible to keep up with /tg/

>not being open

I am being open. This is designed to be fully compatible with /tg/ (yes, you could physically rotate maps) but in the long term I hope for it be attractive enough that it becomes the standard.

It would also be increasingly difficult and limiting long term to balance around having increased freedom of movement in a large area vs a literal void.

For example: How do you balance shadowling if a station map confines it to a handful of dark rooms, but a planet map gives it free reign of a 1k x 1k z level?

t. kor thinks his idea is so good that he's going to try to replace the entire design and concept of a 14 year old game

and i thought i was narcissistic

we planet station now

sawrge thinks it will be the same game, Luke things it will be Left 4 Dead, SHTC thinks it is going to be Colonial Marines, and Oxford apparently thinks it won't be any of the above.

Again, this should be in some sort of playable state before there is a vote on anything so we can at least have some sort of objective reality to debate.

I wouldn't mind being on the third server if I got to set my own admin list and keep it weekend only though, at least for the early testing. Long term though server 3 is where projects go to die.

If it's fun, it'll have no problem drawing people to server 3. Planetary Station is something I wouldn't mind playing once every 4 rounds or so

Sybil is the exact same thing as Basil but it has trouble drawing players because it has no players.

That's because it's the same thing but with fewer people. Nobody wants to play lowpop if there are 60 people on the other server. If Planetary Station is appealing, it won't have any trouble drawing in players. I'd argue that it's a better use of server resources than hosting the exact same thing twice.

The lifeblood of any project is players, putting it on the third server with no players is not going to work, tg players do not play on servers where there is no population, so any such plan to make it a seperate server has failed the first test of having a community ready to back it.

The effective plan is to introduce it to the servers i.e every second round or at admins discretion at the start and then as people accept the idea slowly begin to push it for more and more rounds until it replaces the station rounds completely.

That's the thing though, people don't want this to replace station rounds completely. Shoving it down their throats isn't going to work. Players need to have some kind of choice, whether it be map rotation or a dedicated server.

John_Oxford wrote:t. kor thinks his idea is so good that he's going to try to replace the entire design and concept of a 14 year old game

Except it's the same game with a slightly different map and environmental setting, did you think metastation was going to replace the design and concept of a 12 year old game?

Luke Cox wrote:That's the thing though, people don't want this to replace station rounds completely. Shoving it down their throats isn't going to work.

It would not be every round at first, so in no way is it even close to "Shoving it down their throats"

A new map and something like this aren't even in the same league. And starting if off slow and pushing it more and more until the original game is gone is very much shoving it down their throats. The scenario I see happening is this: Kor and co spend months developing this. Players like it sometimes, but don't want it every round. At that point, either the project dies off and we see coder burnout like never before, or they keep shoving it since they don't want to throw their work out, until people get fed up and leave.

You don't represent the entire playerbase.
You don't even represent a fraction of it.
Don't speak for 100+ people, and don't be so fucking sure of yourself when you do.

I feel like a group of coders/admins/players have collectively burnt out to various degrees and rather than face the reality that it might be time to take a break have decided that it's the game that is the problem instead.

SS13 is a good game. There is nothing critically wrong with its base premise. We're collectively more popular now than we've ever been. There is always room for improvement but no one needs reinvent the wheel here.

If people WANT to reinvent the wheel that's absolutely fine, but don't start screwing up the core of SS13 just to fuel your own desires for radical change.

The base premise is not changing

Why is this so fucking hard to grasp

Some people say it is, others say it's not. Some are espousing harmony, others are claiming conquest. I'm just defending against the worst case here, which is "radicial change in which the soul of SS13 is lost to an unproven idea".

Whoever said this topic was way too early was right. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Kor add me to your admin list

captain sawrge wrote:You don't represent the entire playerbase.
You don't even represent a fraction of it.
Don't speak for 100+ people, and don't be so fucking sure of yourself when you do.

Needs a higher number there sawrge-o.

Luke, do everyone a favor, and leave now. Before this goes in. Save us the headaches of having to know you continue to exist.

MrStonedOne wrote: well all of the website side stuff is going to be moved to "The Cloud"™ in the coming months once i get off my ass and start the ball rolling on that project

FUCK THE CLOUD AAAHHHH.

captain sawrge wrote:You don't represent the entire playerbase.
You don't even represent a fraction of it.
Don't speak for 100+ people, and don't be so fucking sure of yourself when you do.

>Poll on a board that's skews toward support for this project overwhelmingly votes against dumping the base game entirely
>I'm speaking for the playerbase

lol ok

Edit: Point is, if replacing station round with this completely is a controversial idea among a group of people who are receptive to this idea, I sincerely doubt that the playerbase at large is going to like it at all. You can accuse me of "speaking for the playerbase" all you want, I'm just being realistic. I'm arguing against this so fervently because I want what's best for the server.

cox in a box has lost the plot

> Guys, I hate change, let's make sure it chokes and dies.
> I mean, what's with this tyrant Kor thinking he knows what's the best for the server?!
> Here, I've made a poll - do you agree with me or do you agree with me?
> No, no, goys - I mean, guys - why are you voting for the wrong options?!
> STOP IT
> I KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU

Another point.

If you make it too different from the main servers, we're going to have another revolution and people are going to try to split.
If you make it too similar, it's only going to get trampled.

Ying and Yang, yall motherfuckers need to find some balance.

Also, i agree with whoever said it, having like a closed alpha or something of this would allow us to work off of something. Until we have it all of this is mainly just speculation

John_Oxford wrote:Another point.

If you make it too different from the main servers, we're going to have another revolution and people are going to try to split.
If you make it too similar, it's only going to get trampled.

Ying and Yang, yall motherfuckers need to find some balance.

This seems fair. I'm not against Planetary Station, I'm against Planetary Station replacing station rounds permanently.
<modsnip>

Cool it

>censoring something someone said because it was mildly passive aggressive to your fuck buddy

i thought you had standards you citrusfag

[USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST BECAUSE THE CITRUSFAG CANT HANDLE CONFLICT]

The only standards I have are "things that are not currently annoying me won't be removed"

Anyone who says this is throwing fourteen years of development out the window is misinformed.

At its very core, all this proposal is doing is moving the playing field from a Space Station to a ground based Research and Recovery Station. Furthermore, it adds a much more expansive ground map to explore. In addition it also retains the 'Space Station' by keeping a ruined Space Ship in orbit of the planet that can be accessed. Finally it adds a real external threat to the station, that of the encroaching tendril infestation.

All this change is doing is moving the setting and adding some new mechanics.

The biggest change, honestly, that most people will feel is that now that you can now safely step outside without a space suit.

Which is a shame, because I love hardsuits and their sprites, especially the nuke ops one.

Hardsuits are a issue to examine.

They only exist as a form of Advance Space Suits, while they'll still see some usage when exploring the Space Z-Level, but unless we re purpose them, or add some kind of anomaly or hazard that requires them, then it seems Hardsuits will fall by the way side.

InsaneHyena wrote:Which is a shame, because I love hardsuits and their sprites, especially the nuke ops one.

We should make hardsuits better against environmental threats as well or something

kinda like the HEV suit?

Qbopper wrote:

InsaneHyena wrote:Which is a shame, because I love hardsuits and their sprites, especially the nuke ops one.

We should make hardsuits better against environmental threats as well or something

kinda like the HEV suit?

big day today gordon

Put it this way.

Taking the "space" out of a game called "space station 13" is dumb and you should feel dumb.

However, adding a map that doesn't have "space" in it, is ok. It doesn't change the entire game.

John_Oxford wrote:Put it this way.

Taking the "space" out of a game called "space station 13" is dumb and you should feel dumb.

However, adding a map that doesn't have "space" in it, is ok. It doesn't change the entire game.

we dont talk to racists

John_Oxford wrote:Put it this way.

Taking the "space" out of a game called "space station 13" is dumb and you should feel dumb.

However, adding a map that doesn't have "space" in it, is ok. It doesn't change the entire game.

space is still in the game

iamgoofball wrote:

John_Oxford wrote:Put it this way.

Taking the "space" out of a game called "space station 13" is dumb and you should feel dumb.

However, adding a map that doesn't have "space" in it, is ok. It doesn't change the entire game.

we dont talk to racists

b t f o

captain sawrge wrote:space is still in the game

really not much else to say

iamgoofball wrote:

John_Oxford wrote:Put it this way.

Taking the "space" out of a game called "space station 13" is dumb and you should feel dumb.

However, adding a map that doesn't have "space" in it, is ok. It doesn't change the entire game.

we dont talk to racists

if you aren't unironically racist you have a single digit IQ.

no debate.

we don't talk to racists.