[Vekter] YavuzKaganY unacceptable behaviour as Assistant

[yalanamalanas]

Ban/note type (Check what applies):
(X) - Server Ban
() - Note
() - Forum Ban
() - Discord Ban

Ban/note length: 2 days
Ban/note reason: In round 234590, as a non-antagonist assistant
broke into security to steal a modsuit, tried to subvert a subrverted Al to be slaved to
himself, left a suspected antagonist doctor cuffed to a bed in a radstorm, and other assorted
unacceptable behavior. You are not here for me to question and I really cannot find any
context in the logs where any of this would be permitted. Please appeal this on the forums if
you have more to add

Time ban was placed:2024-08-12 14:34:05
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: banned while offline, incident on round 234590

Why are you making this appeal?(Check what applies):
(x) - The ban/note is factually incorrect
() - The ban/note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
() - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?:


I have a few words before getting to main topic, after the round 234590, I was online at the server about 2+ hours. Without giving a change to explain myself in that time or only look through chatlogs, your desicions and thoughts will be incorrect, or at least far from being correct. Given the info, I saw no one getting banned after lowpop murderbones, self antagging ect., even after ahelped by other players for days, I don't know what make you take that action instantly, but let me explain the reasons you stated one by one.

Firstly, I didn't broke into security, or steal any security MODsuit, doors were already opened by the time, I just walked in and immediately critted by Molly, an antag on that round, get healed and took HoS MODsuit and a stunbaton for pursue her (HoS office were broken into by Molly too), for IC revenge or something.

Secondly, I didn't ever tried to subvert AI, only thing was came to my mind is to kill AI for being subverted, check chat logs for that matter. I wanted to kill AI because a cyborg killed the captain, however, I learned after the round, roboticist was also an antag so might have emagged the borg, even though, I didn't even get closed to upload, or Sat.

Thirdly, that doctor had a esword, and I was wearing captain's MODsuit, one could imagine being in the same maints with him is not a really good idea. I left them there so they don't kill me. Was cuffed but worried about freedom implant, and I think it was valid because I was looking like captain, and I knew some people were after captain too. There was a fight between them, I didn't really witnessed the events but it ended with an explosion, causing the doctor to fell down to morgue, so I'd assumed Molly and him was fighting with the captain along with the cyborg, or at least chasing.

And I don't know what is other assorted actions were but, I saved a miner, captain himself, the AI in that magneta MODsuit, prevent shuttle from hijacking, confiscated lethal syndicate weaponary from that doctor, (never hurt anyone with) found and put the stolen blackbox to it's place.

All done from nothing.

I know maybe hunting, or being basically sec or similar not relate with rules, but I wouldn't let anyone kill the captain and make the station their little playground, especially when there is no sec.

[Vekter]

Thank you for appealing, let me go through this one by one.

I have a few words before getting to main topic, after the round 234590, I was online at the server about 2+ hours. Without giving a change to explain myself in that time or only look through chatlogs, your desicions and thoughts will be incorrect, or at least far from being correct. Given the info, I saw no one getting banned after lowpop murderbones, self antagging ect., even after ahelped by other players for days, I don't know what make you take that action instantly, but let me explain the reasons you stated one by one.

This is irrelevant to the appeal, if you see others breaking the rules you are free to adminhelp them but in no way are you justified in breaking the rules yourself just because others are doing so.

Firstly, I didn't broke into security, or steal any security MODsuit, doors were already opened by the time, I just walked in and immediately critted by Molly, an antag on that round, get healed and took HoS MODsuit and a stunbaton for pursue her (HoS office were broken into by Molly too), for IC revenge or something.

There are a couple of issues here. Firstly, entering an area you aren't meant to have access to is still considered trespassing. If the doors were somehow destroyed or locked open, that doesn't mean you have permission to be there. Secondly, on MRP as an assistant, your job isn't to pursue antagonists, nor are you allowed to take items that don't belong to you for helping you hunt down antagonists. You had a valid reason to want to fight Molly, but you're not permitted to seek them out individually, as that breaks roleplay rule 4: "4. Non-security may only actively hunt global or round-ending threats."

Secondly, I didn't ever tried to subvert AI, only thing was came to my mind is to kill AI for being subverted, check chat logs for that matter. I wanted to kill AI because a cyborg killed the captain, however, I learned after the round, roboticist was also an antag so might have emagged the borg, even though, I didn't even get closed to upload, or Sat.

This is a fair point and something where I had to go off of someone's words to understand what happened because the logs weren't able to clarify the matter for me. That being said, again: You are an assistant. Dealing with the AI is not your responsibility, that is the Captain or RD's. This was a low pop shift, so I'm going to cut you some slack and say that you probably were okay to handle this issue given that it could result in the station being mostly destroyed (I would classify a subverted AI as a "round-ending threat" if left unchecked).

Thirdly, that doctor had a esword, and I was wearing captain's MODsuit, one could imagine being in the same maints with him is not a really good idea. I left them there so they don't kill me. Was cuffed but worried about freedom implant, and I think it was valid because I was looking like captain, and I knew some people were after captain too. There was a fight between them, I didn't really witnessed the events but it ended with an explosion, causing the doctor to fell down to morgue, so I'd assumed Molly and him was fighting with the captain along with the cyborg, or at least chasing.

Assuming you had seen the doctor with an esword, I can understand having taken this action.

My biggest issue in general is that you seem to be having trouble understanding how roleplay rules 4 and 7 work. You need to understand that, as an assistant, it is not your job to run around in high-value gear hunting down antagonists. If you were "looking like the captain" as an assistant, I think that's a pretty solid indication that you're running around with WAY too much powerful gear on you. You also continue to have issues regarding greytiding and entering areas you aren't permitted to be in, which wouldn't normally be a concern, but you have multiple notes for this kind of behavior at this point. You had zero reason to be in Security as far as I can tell.

I'm going to amend the note and amend the ban to last a total of twelve hours. I am starting to think that notes aren't getting the point across and either there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the rules or you are choosing not to follow them. The amended note will read as:

In round 234590, as a non-antagonist assistant, trespassed into the brig, stole the HoS' modsuit and tried to hunt down a traitor who had attacked them earlier. Stated in their appeal that they had enough gear on that they "looked like the captain", which is a good indicator that you are powergaming. Please re-read the roleplay rules.

[yalanamalanas]

Thank you for appealing, let me go through this one by one.

I have a few words before getting to main topic, after the round 234590, I was online at the server about 2+ hours. Without giving a change to explain myself in that time or only look through chatlogs, your desicions and thoughts will be incorrect, or at least far from being correct. Given the info, I saw no one getting banned after lowpop murderbones, self antagging ect., even after ahelped by other players for days, I don't know what make you take that action instantly, but let me explain the reasons you stated one by one.

This is irrelevant to the appeal, if you see others breaking the rules you are free to adminhelp them but in no way are you justified in breaking the rules yourself just because others are doing so.

Firstly, I didn't broke into security, or steal any security MODsuit, doors were already opened by the time, I just walked in and immediately critted by Molly, an antag on that round, get healed and took HoS MODsuit and a stunbaton for pursue her (HoS office were broken into by Molly too), for IC revenge or something.

There are a couple of issues here. Firstly, entering an area you aren't meant to have access to is still considered trespassing. If the doors were somehow destroyed or locked open, that doesn't mean you have permission to be there. Secondly, on MRP as an assistant, your job isn't to pursue antagonists, nor are you allowed to take items that don't belong to you for helping you hunt down antagonists. You had a valid reason to want to fight Molly, but you're not permitted to seek them out individually, as that breaks roleplay rule 4: "4. Non-security may only actively hunt global or round-ending threats."

Secondly, I didn't ever tried to subvert AI, only thing was came to my mind is to kill AI for being subverted, check chat logs for that matter. I wanted to kill AI because a cyborg killed the captain, however, I learned after the round, roboticist was also an antag so might have emagged the borg, even though, I didn't even get closed to upload, or Sat.

This is a fair point and something where I had to go off of someone's words to understand what happened because the logs weren't able to clarify the matter for me. That being said, again: You are an assistant. Dealing with the AI is not your responsibility, that is the Captain or RD's. This was a low pop shift, so I'm going to cut you some slack and say that you probably were okay to handle this issue given that it could result in the station being mostly destroyed (I would classify a subverted AI as a "round-ending threat" if left unchecked).

Thirdly, that doctor had a esword, and I was wearing captain's MODsuit, one could imagine being in the same maints with him is not a really good idea. I left them there so they don't kill me. Was cuffed but worried about freedom implant, and I think it was valid because I was looking like captain, and I knew some people were after captain too. There was a fight between them, I didn't really witnessed the events but it ended with an explosion, causing the doctor to fell down to morgue, so I'd assumed Molly and him was fighting with the captain along with the cyborg, or at least chasing.

a

Assuming you had seen the doctor with an esword, I can understand having taken this action.

My biggest issue in general is that you seem to be having trouble understanding how roleplay rules 4 and 7 work. You need to understand that, as an assistant, it is not your job to run around in high-value gear hunting down antagonists. If you were "looking like the captain" as an assistant, I think that's a pretty solid indication that you're running around with WAY too much powerful gear on you. You also continue to have issues regarding greytiding and entering areas you aren't permitted to be in, which wouldn't normally be a concern, but you have multiple notes for this kind of behavior at this point. You had zero reason to be in Security as far as I can tell.

I'm going to amend the note and amend the ban to last a total of twelve hours. I am starting to think that notes aren't getting the point across and either there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the rules or you are choosing not to follow them. The amended note will read as:

In round 234590, as a non-antagonist assistant, trespassed into the brig, stole the HoS' modsuit and tried to hunt down a traitor who had attacked them earlier. Stated in their appeal that they had enough gear on that they "looked like the captain", which is a good indicator that you are powergaming. Please re-read the roleplay rules.

I've realised I have to clarify, and give a more detailed explanetion about what you mentioned. Let me make it even more clear

I DIDN'T greytide anywhere you claimed, I have only walked into security, and as far as I know, just by walking into an area that you should not, does not equal ban whatsoever, also rules doesn't say anything much about lowpop situations, and if you think in a roleplaying point of view, just being curious and wanting to know "what happened" in your station (because other doors within the station was broken into same way as security) is a valid reason to excuse discover, because there is no intention for stealing from there, or doing anything similar.

again, like you said, if we were needed to roleplay, a personnel of the station witnessing captain getting murdered by syndicate agents, and knowing there is no other force to stop it, protecting "the workplace" is -inside space law- should what I had to do, and I did by taking their weapons away, not by killing or hunting, and I think I can say that because I am an assistant and I respond everyone, station is my workplace, and I have to protect it in EXTREME situations, and command getting overthrown by syndicate is a major threat, enough for to take action, since only command is captain at the moment And I was succesfull at that, I saved captains life, didn't personally killed anyone in the proccess. Also people werent really "roleplaying" before I land, on lowpop hours, it's a backstage matter, I am not telling that it should be like that, but it is a problem, and I do think, spawning more than one traitor, in no sec no command rounds is not something that you can "roleplay" out of, I can understand traitors doing their objective, but trying to make the station their personal toy? Who would let that happen if you think roleplay wise.

Second matter, me looking like captain. I had only captain's MODsuit, I took the suit (found on ground) mere seconds before encountering the doctor. There was no excessive captain or HoS items on me before that. My reason for taking the MODsuit, was to save the AI assistant inside it.

Third, I didn't pursue any antagonist, it was all against Molly who critted me, and since you said it was okay, I wasn't going to pursue them in the first place, because I know it isn't my job, clear here, pursue was not because they were antag, it's because they critted me. I didn't tried hunt anyone else, apart from molly, That was until captain get killed, and since Molly was dead too, I had no any further pursue. Thing I said in the second paragraph, even I kill that agents, it should not be violate rule 4 and was a respond to according to what you said about roleplaying.

And Finally, I saved people from basically getting round removed, it's too much of a strict based mindset, because youre banning me after the round ends, even captain telling me "youre the top G" for saving him. İt's common sense, no one is bothered, or no one's gameplay ruined.

And I also didn't get that, if it was okay to take my revenge, and it's not okay to take a baton and some armor in order to do it, like how would I encounter? They had batons, and weapons.

[Vekter]

E: I need to go over the logs a bit more on some specifics here, because it's going to change how this should be handled, so give me a bit.

[yalanamalanas]

E: I need to go over the logs a bit more on some specifics here, because it's going to change how this should be handled, so give me a bit.

Okay, only parts that I disagree with you are, "hunting antags" and "powergaming" basically, in a low pressure, spaced area, a radiation wawe is coming in seconds, and youre telling me I shouldn't wear it. I don't really understand how so, if protecting myself is valid.

Also, hallways were filled with toxins, and some had no oxygen, explosions were happening. I don't exactly know how to these are not "round ending" considering they did a great amount or unrepairable damage(it may not be that much on populated rounds), on lowpop. Again, rules doesn't say anything about lowpop, Also likely AI subverted by the same people, so arguabley, they can be considered as round ending threat.

[Vekter]

Alright, having gone over the logs some more I'm going to go ahead and remove this note. I think your points make a lot more sense in the context of the state of the round and station, given that there was no security presence and Molly had indeed killed you before you even put hands on any security gear. I do want you to understand that going anywhere you don't have access for and taking things without permission is generally not permitted on MRP servers unless you have a good in-character reason to do so (typically if you've asked for whatever you need and were denied it, or if nobody is present in that area and you have a good in-character reason to want it), but in this case, given that there was no security staff and you had a good reason to need protection (an antagonist had attacked you earlier), it's a non-issue.

So just please keep in mind in the future that, even if the doors have been hacked open or destroyed, going somewhere you shouldn't be is still trespassing. Otherwise, I think you were fine here.

[JupiterJaeden]

I know this is resolved now but I want to point out a rule 4 precedent that seems to have been ignored here:

The dead dog litmus test: Players may hunt specific threats or antagonists who have identifiably done something to wrong that particular player, the Ur-example being that players may seek revenge against those who harm their departmental pets. Players who choose this path are empowered to act as security in regard to that specific threat, but as per the main rule must also follow related restrictions on security play.

I would think being murdered or crit by someone counts as a personal wronging. The presence of security or not is irrelevant, this alone gives justification to hunt down an antagonist.

[Vekter]

I unbanned you a few hours ago and removed the note, so I guess let me know if you need anything else.

[yalanamalanas]

I know this is resolved now but I want to point out a rule 4 precedent that seems to have been ignored here:

The dead dog litmus test: Players may hunt specific threats or antagonists who have identifiably done something to wrong that particular player, the Ur-example being that players may seek revenge against those who harm their departmental pets. Players who choose this path are empowered to act as security in regard to that specific threat, but as per the main rule must also follow related restrictions on security play.

I would think being murdered or crit by someone counts as a personal wronging. The presence of security or not is irrelevant, this alone gives justification to hunt down an antagonist.

Thanks, have a good one