[Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

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Tornadium
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Byond Username: Tornadium

[Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by Tornadium » #429608

Byond account and character name: Tornadium/Tornadium Axonium
Banning admin: Ausops
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Game/Forum
Ban reason and length: Permanent, Unable to get full reason as travelling with work. Short answer, Escalating series of targeted bans. Apparently failing a probation because I disagreed with Ausops in a policy thread
Time ban was placed (including time zone): Unknown (Years ago)
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): All

Your side of the story:

Not to get too long winded, I had been playing on TG for several years (As far back as the days of Uhangi and Burer. Prior to the events taking place in the space of a few months I had been playing on TG for roughly 3-4 years with two notes to my name. One was me reporting myself for making a mistake with the engine setup, received a very short temp ban due to the deaths it caused. The second I believe was a minor rule misunderstanding again taking place in the first few weeks of my playtime. After that point my note/conduct history was immaculate until my return to the server following the community split fiasco.

Upon my return, I seemed to be frequently clashing with three admins in particular. These admins were Scones, Saegrimir and Ausops. I knew who none of these three were as I had taken a break after the community split and just recent had returned. What followed was a series of increasingly bizarre conflicts between myself and these admins mostly to do with security bans/policy arguments. I won't go too deeply into these because you can see the note history for yourself, Note that I had something in the region of 6-7 bans lifted or retracted by the head admins at the time (HG/Kor) due to poor ban reasoning and in some cases administrators outright lying and forging log evidence (Scones for example trying to force a meta game ban through by claiming I had stripped him and checked his mesons for thermals as a security officer. Logs proved this was another player and the logs scones provided at the time of the ban were forged).

Eventually I was warned by Kor/HG that eventually I was going to be perma'd mostly because it was too much of a pain in the ass to deal with the conflict within the admin team that was coming from these conflicts, I was advised to change Byond account and character name because of the sheer dislike that was being shown towards me by the three in particular. Letting them perma me, I was told would honestly be the easier option than dealing with the Adminbus drama.

I admit I did let my anger get the better of me during this period, Especially when forum moderator tools were used to temporarily remove my posting rights and close ban appeals. HG had put me on probation and I had basically stopped playing all together by this point when I was discussing something in the policy thread section (I forget the post) when Ausops decided my posting in the thread breached HGs probation and I was Perma'd.


Why you think you should be unbanned:
Honestly, This all stems from two main pain points. I do admit my playstyle at the time was rather power gamey as security, I played in a "competitive" manner always doing what would mean I had the best chance of failure. While not being exactly against the rules was in some cases very poor form.

However, The biggest point and where the root of this animosity comes from (something I would only discover towards the end thanks to another ex-admin Garrus) is a conflict between Ausops and I in another game. To give some context (Eve players should understand) Ausops and I were both part of Sniggerdly in Pandemic Legion. Pandemic Legion is what some might call an elitist PvP group within Eve online, I knew Ausops through Pandemic Legion at one time he was a fleet FC.

To cut a long story short, He lost a cap fleet doing something incredibly stupid and he was hazed pretty badly for it in response. This started personal conflicts which ended him attempting to get certain players (myself included) kicked from Snigg and PL by trying to forge evidence that certain players were spies for Black Legion/Goons. This came out eventually and he was booted from the alliance hence where the pretty intense animosity and dislike comes from, I can't say I blame them but it's a moot point I guess.

I have been playing on other servers and like my previous stint on TG I have had zero administrative issues, Except for one CM MP Job ban (Lifted immediately) for disconnecting mid round because I had to take my kid to the hospital.

If required I can get some references from administrators and moderators from other servers. I would just like to quote the comment from the CM MP Job Ban appeal thread:
From my interactions with Tornadium he's been nothing but reasonable and pleasant when I've spoken to him as a mod, and in all regards he's a good player. I find the excuse given completely reasonable and understandable, besides which MPs going SSD is never a disaster anyway, as they can easily be cryo'd and the role freed up.
I would like to be unbanned (Not necessarily immediately happy to just be downgraded from a perma) and be able to play TG again some day if possible.

Happy to discuss this further and provide evidence to back up everything I'm saying (I don't want to Dox anyone or provide any information publicly which could identify someone despite our differences). If you need to please reach out to me in discord and I can share more evidence away from public eyes and we can discuss further.

Edit : Just wanted to re-iterate, I'm currently travelling with work so I may not be replying straight away (That and I'm on post approval still) so if I'm not replying to a question or follow up I'll get back to you ASAP
Last edited by Tornadium on Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Thunder11
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by Thunder11 » #429627

(MANUAL BAN) Failing terms of HG's probation. "2016-03-21 21:14:01 | Sybil | hornygranny MEGA PROBATION: If he does ANYTHING wrong throw him out. This extends to being a pain in the ass outside of the game." Notes by Krusvik and Okand as well as recent forum behaviour indicates little has changed.
ImageImage
Spoiler:
IcePacks wrote:
MrFoster wrote:Back in my day, we didn't complain about lag! We used it to queue attacks!
That's thinking on your feet, soldier!
Quality Paprika from #coderbus wrote:[11:35.52] <paprika> holy crap so yeah i don't care about your opinion at all
oranges wrote:
Excuse me? Thats for sensible and calm rational debate, not for senseless whining.
Resident Catmin, please direct catposting to: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5578
Tornadium
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by Tornadium » #429629

Thunder11 wrote:
(MANUAL BAN) Failing terms of HG's probation. "2016-03-21 21:14:01 | Sybil | hornygranny MEGA PROBATION: If he does ANYTHING wrong throw him out. This extends to being a pain in the ass outside of the game." Notes by Krusvik and Okand as well as recent forum behaviour indicates little has changed.
Thank you, Appreciate you looking that up.

Will update OP.
factoryman942
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by factoryman942 » #429637

prev appeals:
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=7240
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=8296

also, from the second one:
imblyings wrote:>accuse me of stuff from Eve

>>

>>>

>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>turns out I've never played Eve
Tornadium
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by Tornadium » #429647

factoryman942 wrote:prev appeals:
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=7240
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=8296

also, from the second one:
imblyings wrote:>accuse me of stuff from Eve

>>

>>>

>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>turns out I've never played Eve

Yup, He's outright denied but I'm well aware of who Ausops is as is Garrus one of the Ex-Admin team who was also in Snigg with me. I spoke to them once in the last four months when they tried to re-join Snigg and got denied, I know the voice and I know the person.

There is a lot more to it, However I'm not going to dox someone on a public forum unless absolutely necessary.
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NikNakFlak
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by NikNakFlak » #429715

Bringing up the Eve stuff doesn't hold a lot of ground or relevance because 1. besides ausops being "involved", it isn't super relevant to your ban and 2. all we have is your word to go on so basically without factual and concrete conclusions, it basically sums up to zero relevance
Tornadium
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by Tornadium » #429716

NikNakFlak wrote:Bringing up the Eve stuff doesn't hold a lot of ground or relevance because 1. besides ausops being "involved", it isn't super relevant to your ban and 2. all we have is your word to go on so basically without factual and concrete conclusions, it basically sums up to zero relevance
I would argue otherwise, It adds a great deal of context to the situation especially when you take into account the Adminbus situation at the time. I do have evidence (Connection logs to Eve services/PL mumble etc) however I'd prefer to share that privately with the Headmins rather than post it publicly. The evidence in question does pertain to each of my bans, I have documented conversations and evidence presented around every one that I received in that time period starting from the first time Kor warned me that a group of administrators approached them requesting a rule zero ban (this was within two weeks of my return and after ONE note).

I also retained several log files of adminbus conversations, Private Messages and Evidence which prove intended collusion between admins and evidence of administrators lying/fabricating evidence to force bans through. Please don't take my response as being in any way rude or hostile. I just feel that I do have a significant amount of evidence and besides that, I had two notes for relatively minor mistakes playing on TG for years and I have next to nothing on other servers since. My playstyle, personality and attitude hasn't really changed at all throughout that time, at least not on any drastic level.

There is a common denominator in all of this, There must be reason why I am able to have good relationships with other server's admin teams and previous admin teams on this server. I don't really expect anyone would respond well to bans being placed then preemptively forum and IRC banned (by a non-headmin) with the intent of shutting you out of all possible lines of appeal.
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NikNakFlak
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by NikNakFlak » #429725

I know some bans were lifted but as far as I'm aware, the only one with malicious and misleading attempts was the scones ban. It's so hard to look up your history on the forums because you rules lawyer constantly and have 10 billion threads all over the place. There may have been bad bans, but I'm not sure where this administrators lying and collusion claim comes from. If you have evidence, send it to headmins, and if the evidence isn't sensitive in nature, post it here, otherwise players and nonheadmin admins alike will be out of the loop and then claims and other FAKE news starts to rile up, it always happens this way especially surrounding you.

I couldn't even find the scones thread so I'll just dump some threads here that weren't already provided by factoryman. I'm not even sure the relevance of some but they are so FUCKING LONG and there are SO MANY, so I dumped what I could find.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 57#p194357
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 04#p161004
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 00#p161000
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 76#p160976
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=5403
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=5402
Tornadium
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by Tornadium » #429728

NikNakFlak wrote:I know some bans were lifted but as far as I'm aware, the only one with malicious and misleading attempts was the scones ban. It's so hard to look up your history on the forums because you rules lawyer constantly and have 10 billion threads all over the place. There may have been bad bans, but I'm not sure where this administrators lying and collusion claim comes from. If you have evidence, send it to headmins, and if the evidence isn't sensitive in nature, post it here, otherwise players and nonheadmin admins alike will be out of the loop and then claims and other FAKE news starts to rile up, it always happens this way especially surrounding you.

I couldn't even find the scones thread so I'll just dump some threads here that weren't already provided by factoryman. I'm not even sure the relevance of some but they are so FUCKING LONG and there are SO MANY, so I dumped what I could find.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 57#p194357
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 04#p161004
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 00#p161000
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 76#p160976
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=5403
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=5402
The thread title was something along the lines of "Up-coming Ban" with regards to the Scones incident. At least 4 out of the 6 provided I can relate direct evidence that proves (if you just their authenticity) admin claims in adminbus at the time of the ban when questioned do not match the logs/evidence from the round.

There was a reason Kor/HG lifted these bans, Yes I was warned a Perma was coming that they couldn't stop because of the on-going admin drama split at the time. I reached out to the headmins already to ask if they wish to review logs, pms, connection information etc prior to my posting.

Just waiting for a word back.
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NikNakFlak
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by NikNakFlak » #429731

still can't find the thread and ok otherwise.
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oranges
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by oranges » #429734

>ausops leaves, you pop back up

Image
Tornadium
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by Tornadium » #429737

oranges wrote:>ausops leaves, you pop back up

Image
Only realistic time to come back.

Wouldn't have a chance otherwise so no point wasting my breath on it. Nice to see you too Oranges. Regardless, if it gets declined no biggie, just thought I'd ask.
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oranges
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by oranges » #429743

yeah but why waste the time, apparently you managed to find a happy successful medium outside of /tg/, why risk going back to what happened before.
Tornadium
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by Tornadium » #429753

It isn't exactly a waste of time, It took me all of 10 minutes to write the appeal and I'm checking the forum every so often inbetween conference calls. Not like it's a heavy inconvenience just to ask.

I just like having the ability to play, I probably wouldn't even play as much as I did before but it would be nice to have the option.

Found two more of the ban appeals since they'll probably need to be reviewed.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 2&start=50

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=4335
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NikNakFlak
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by NikNakFlak » #429758

hurray the thread! but rip privatepaste
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ohnopigeons
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by ohnopigeons » #429821

From the bans I've observed I would say they were absolutely merited. You lied, exaggerated and cherry-picked, constantly and consistently, to deflect blame and responsibility for your actions. I've been at the receiving end of such behavior in a borg/AI/sec conflict in the past that then spilled over into the forums. Some other players do this too to some degree, but you take it to an absurd level, which you obfuscate with the length of your posting. You were unpleasant both in-game and out of game.
It took longer than I expected for you to be permabanned, but I suppose your posting tactics counted for something.

I'm all for second chances but considering you're blaming your rule 0 ban on a supposed OOC grudge with an admin who just so happens to not be here at the present time, current admins can expect more of the same behavior in the future.
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Krusvik
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by Krusvik » #429839

You say you changed but you format your argument the same, you blame others for everything.

You were one of the most notable interactions I had as a trialmin, you constantly spoke down to me in ahelps and attempted to bring our conversation into OOC to shame me, held zero respect for me, and asked for a "real admin". It was highly stressful as a fledgling administrator, and I personally think you've had enough second chances here.

Had I not seen this for myself, maybe I'd believe you about the whole grudging thing, but here I am holding a grudge years later because of how you treated me during my early months.
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Owegno
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by Owegno » #429854

Denied. It is irrelevant to me (and the other headmins) if the grudge ausops had for you came from EVE. The fact you are still deflecting all blame for your actions onto other people shows me you haven't changed since you were banned. I'll be locking and resolving this in 24 hours.
Tornadium
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Re: [Ausops] - Tornadium - Permanent Pan

Post by Tornadium » #429878

ohnopigeons wrote:From the bans I've observed I would say they were absolutely merited. You lied, exaggerated and cherry-picked, constantly and consistently, to deflect blame and responsibility for your actions. I've been at the receiving end of such behavior in a borg/AI/sec conflict in the past that then spilled over into the forums. Some other players do this too to some degree, but you take it to an absurd level, which you obfuscate with the length of your posting. You were unpleasant both in-game and out of game.
It took longer than I expected for you to be permabanned, but I suppose your posting tactics counted for something.

I'm all for second chances but considering you're blaming your rule 0 ban on a supposed OOC grudge with an admin who just so happens to not be here at the present time, current admins can expect more of the same behavior in the future.
Which bans did you observe? You have to keep in mind that by my count 6 individual bans were lifted by the head admins because they weren't bannable offenses and in some cases were supported by administrators lying and forging evidence. There was a common denominator in the conflict, I had no conflicts prior and no conflicts since. Make of that what you will but I'm somehow able to manage a pleasant relationship with administrative teams who are much harsher and serious than this one.

Don't think it's very fair for you to call me out for lying/exaggeration/whatever without actually reviewing evidence or providing a citation but that's okay.
Krusvik wrote:You say you changed but you format your argument the same, you blame others for everything.

You were one of the most notable interactions I had as a trialmin, you constantly spoke down to me in ahelps and attempted to bring our conversation into OOC to shame me, held zero respect for me, and asked for a "real admin". It was highly stressful as a fledgling administrator, and I personally think you've had enough second chances here.

Had I not seen this for myself, maybe I'd believe you about the whole grudging thing, but here I am holding a grudge years later because of how you treated me during my early months.
Sorry where did I say I changed?

I actually said the opposite, My attitude and behaviour has not changed from my time here, My point was that somehow I am able to avoid conflict and have a pleasant relationship with different administration teams with the exact same attitude and form of communication.

If I'm completely honest, I don't remember ever speaking to you what so ever. What was likely the case is that after a few admins forged evidence (facts support this) I just skipped asking for anyone but the head admins or MSO because it was a waste of time.
Owegno wrote:Denied. It is irrelevant to me (and the other headmins) if the grudge ausops had for you came from EVE. The fact you are still deflecting all blame for your actions onto other people shows me you haven't changed since you were banned. I'll be locking and resolving this in 24 hours.
That's absolutely fine, As I said I wasn't expecting a yes so no big deal.

I'm not deflecting blame, Any case where I genuinely feel I was wrong I have openly stated as such in previous appeals and in this thread. I feel I was rather open and honest, I handled it horribly and the admin team at the time was incredible biased and the bans were targeted (There is literally evidence for this, You have it linked in this thread).

I see no reason why I should accept false blame especially when you haven't bothered to contact me or reply to anything I have sent you requesting that we go over evidence. You really just made your mind up without actually getting a clear picture of the situation or an accurate one at that.

Feel free to just lock it now, No need to further waste time.
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