[MortoSasye]Akuuro Ralphtalia - extended ban for lying?

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Bonkington
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:46 am

[MortoSasye]Akuuro Ralphtalia - extended ban for lying?

Post by Bonkington » #476738

Byond account and character name: Bonkington/Akuro Ralphtalia
Banning admin: MortoSasye
Ban type (What are you banned from?): SS13 server
Ban reason and length: Killed and spaced someone over another person ic conflict + destroying a mulebot as the Quartermaster. They knew the reason why the person destroyed the mulebot as well as the former (which was only a punch and they stealing the guitar). Proceeded to lie in ahelps afterwards, stating that the person pushed them first and tried to kill them. Read the rules, and don\'t lie in ahelps when you mess up. 2 day ban
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 6:40ish EST
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil):Bagil
Your side of the story: The captain had left during earlier in the round and I was given captain by him, not sure if that actually matters or not but as I am new I took it to heart. Since I was the captain I was trying to handle stuff on the ship, I had been told by someone that he had been assaulted continuously assaulted by someone so I went to go find him and see what was happening. upon finding him in front of security I asked him why he had done it. As I was doing this I got told that he had also broken our mulebot, he claimed it was emaged but it had been cleared earlier in the round. He then started to break into security and I shot at him because I believed he was going to get guns. I know that this was wrong now but I was never really given a clear reason, I just accused of lying and told that it was wrong for other reasons than what I shot him for. I shot him for breaking into security, the only thing I can even relate is that it was outside my starting department but I thought since I was made captain it would cover that. I was never told that it didn't I was just accused of lying and had an extra 24 hours added onto the ban for it. I was operating as captain, granted I don't play it often, and I assumed that it would allow me to act the way I did. if it doesn't then I am fine with my day ban for misunderstanding and not knowing. However I still don't know if I was in the wrong for this and I have a 2 day ban for lying as well as killing someone I shouldn't have. He also kept stating that I said he pushed me first, I never said he pushed first, I stated was just telling him that the man pushed me and taken my gun for completion of my story since he kept accusing me of lying.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I don't feel like my side of the story was really understood. I don't understand what I did wrong from my ban, if I couldn't kill him in my situation then I am fine with being banned for that, but I got a harsher ban because the admin didn't understand. If I could at least have what I was in the wrong explained to me I would feel alright with my ban. However I don't know what I did wrong and I have a longer ban than I should for "lying".
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Malkraz
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:20 am
Byond Username: Malkraz

Re: [MortoSasye]Akuuro Ralphtalia - extended ban for lying?

Post by Malkraz » #476757

Logs for this round: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... nd-101846/
I was the one killed by this player.
As I told Akuro, I had disarmed (not punched) Massah Blacky and trashed his guitar for playing an extremely loud and obnoxious "song". The Mulebot I had destroyed for 3 reasons. First, there was a captain's announcement that someone was murdering the crew. Second, another player had called out a Mulebot as hacked (assumed they meant emagged) earlier in the round. Third, when I discovered the Mulebot in maint it had flashing red lights (assumed this indicated hacking), and was carrying a fuel tank. I didn't realize it was pAI-controlled until after I had destroyed it and found the pAI in the wreckage.
[2019-02-15 11:02:09.948] SAY: 11:02:09.948] SAY: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia) (priority announcement) "Listen guys, lets just all get along. Also watch out for someone that has murdered our disabled clown and taken his identity" (Bridge (107, 134, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:09:24.720] SAY: 11:09:24.720] SAY: Jerry Derpington/(Sasha Howen) "hacked mulebot" (Central Primary Hallway (90, 116, 2))
Massah and the pAI eventually told Akuro what I had done, to which he replied
[2019-02-15 11:17:51.109] SAY: 11:17:51.109] SAY: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia) "I say we get rid of him" (Cargo Office (75, 139, 2))
Akuro then quickly went right to my location in front of the brig. After asking me why I had done what I did to those players, I proceeded to hack open the brig door right in front of him (great way to sneak in to the armory) to grab the secway. Akuro responded to my masterful B&E by lasering me with lethals. Disablers would've been more appropriate, but fair enough I was hacking into security. After eating a few shots I manage to push him and grab the gun before trying to call out for help. He then pushes me and resumes lasering. At no point did I "try to kill him". Akuro then took my body to disposals and launched me out the airlock.
Bonkington wrote:I shot him for breaking into security
As I told Morto, I take issue with this particular claim. After killing me dead and spacing my corpse, Akuro returned to cargo to tell Massah
[2019-02-15 11:21:59.267] SAY: 11:21:59.267] SAY: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia) "I took care of him" (Cargo Bay (73, 144, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:22:05.066] SAY: 11:22:05.066] SAY: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia) "he also smashed my mule bot" (Cargo Bay (73, 144, 2))
In addition to him saying "I say we get rid of him" before ever encountering me, there is no mention here of my dastardly forced entry into security, so I suspect the result would've been the same regardless of my desire to ride. Assuming this was his motivation, however, death and spacing at the hands of a 3rd party strikes me as pretty shit escalation.
I'd also like to put on record that this player had 2 friends who were very vocal in OOC immediately following his banning and implied metacommunication.
Spoiler:
[2019-02-15 11:41:24.984] OOC: 11:41:24.984] OOC: AceyOfSpacey/(Lynn Faye) "Did you just unjust ban?" (Surgery (75, 99, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:42:24.528] OOC: 11:42:24.528] OOC: AceyOfSpacey/(Lynn Faye) "I mean my Boyfriend was banned for "Lying" when he was telling the full truth" (Surgery (75, 99, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:43:15.930] OOC: 11:43:15.930] OOC: Awesomechap/(Chuck Chucker) "he didnt lie about shit" (Surgery (74, 99, 2))
[2019-02-15 12:11:46.004] OOC: 12:11:46.004] OOC: Awesomechap/(Chuck Chucker) "THEN WHY CANT I USE MY FRIEND WHO ACTUALLY KNOW THIS GAME, AND NOT THE SHITTY WIKI???" (Surgery (73, 98, 2))
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MortoSasye
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:05 pm
Byond Username: MortoSasye
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Re: [MortoSasye]Akuuro Ralphtalia - extended ban for lying?

Post by MortoSasye » #476763

Hello, thanks for appealing. Hopefully i can better explain via here why i banned you as well as why the ban was extended for both spacing the body and lying in ahelps.

First of all: The following logs were obtained from here https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/basil/ ... 6/game.log

To clear the first point, the first half of your ban was applied for something that could be called overescalation but if we're honest it was random murder and was ruled as so because it didn't make sense for you, a quartermaster/acting captain, to kill someone for assaulting someone else as a non antag over an ic conflict and destroying a mulebot after being informed by Malkraz himself that he thought it was emagged and that the assault was in reality he pushing someone due to playing annoying music:
[2019-02-15 11:19:11.934] SAY: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia) "yo" (Fore Primary Hallway (107, 157, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:19:13.707] SAY: Malkraz/(Rock Steel) "ye" (Fore Primary Hallway (109, 160, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:19:18.131] SAY: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia) "why did you take someones guitar?" (Fore Primary Hallway (107, 157, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:19:21.374] SAY: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia) "or did you?" (Fore Primary Hallway (107, 158, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:19:23.480] SAY: Malkraz/(Rock Steel) "it was annoying as fuck" (Fore Primary Hallway (109, 160, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:19:29.611] SAY: Malkraz/(Rock Steel) "it's in disposals now" (Fore Primary Hallway (109, 160, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:19:39.613] SAY: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia) "but then you punched him?" (Fore Primary Hallway (107, 158, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:19:42.747] SAY: Malkraz/(Rock Steel) "no" (Fore Primary Hallway (109, 160, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:19:46.060] SAY: Malkraz/(Rock Steel) "I pushed him" (Fore Primary Hallway (109, 160, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:19:48.561] SAY: Malkraz/(Rock Steel) "for being loud" (Fore Primary Hallway (109, 160, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:19:54.242] SAY: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia) "did you also smash a mulebot?" (Fore Primary Hallway (107, 158, 2))
[2019-02-15 11:19:59.687] SAY: Malkraz/(Rock Steel) "yeah someone said it was emagged" (Fore Primary Hallway (109, 160, 2))
Do pay special attention to the site in which this is being talked about and the delay between replies. It wasn't near the armory neither was he evading you, and while you were acting captain and he was breaking into brig, you should at least had shot a tazer or disablers at him in order to perform an arrest. Not kill him and space him afterwards.

Now to the second point, the second half of your ban is due to spacing the body and lying in ahelps. During my conversation with you in ahelps, you told me first a version and then another as to why you killed him; obviously this isn't completely the reason why i decided you lied on ahelps. The issue i had was the minute you decided to tell me that the person you killed pushed you and was trying to kill you when the logs showed otherwise. When i pointed this lie out, you kept denying it.

Full conversation:
Spoiler:
[2019-02-15 11:26:06.950] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge)->Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia): Hi, can i know what happened between you and Rock Steel?
[2019-02-15 11:27:19.453] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge)->Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia): Please answer by clicking my name as soon as possible.[2019-02-15 11:27:54.138] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia)->MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge): I was told by someone in cargo he had been assulting him, He also smashed my mule bot
[2019-02-15 11:28:06.024] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia)->MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge): Sorry I was in the middle of putting this mans leg on
[2019-02-15 11:29:34.269] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge)->Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia): So you jumped straight to killing and spacing someone for another person ic conflict? If it was for the mulebot you could at most tell them to stop. But the question here is, again, why would you kill them for that when he clearly told you it was emagged aka dangerous:
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- 24[11:19:59] -/(Rock Steel) (Fore Primary Hallway (109, 160, 2))
- "yeah someone said it was emagged"
[2019-02-15 11:31:46.281] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia)->MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge): He was also breaking into sec, I'm not just gonna watch some guy get the guns to keep killing people, the last captain also made me acting captain but again I was told he was assulting people. If I jumped the gun I am sorry, but from what I saw he was going into sec
[2019-02-15 11:32:47.906] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge)->Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia): Okay so now you're changing the story to he breaking into security?
-
- Please understand that what you did was overescalation, and your actions were extremely wrong. Hell, i don't even know if to call it escalation because it's more like random murder due to his actions not being malicious towards you at any point.
[2019-02-15 11:37:02.149] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia)->MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge): I'm not changing my story, it's still the same. I was told by someone that he was hiding because Rock assulted him, I tried to question him in a hall but he ran off to sec, granted he probably didn't hear me until I caught up with him. While I was talking with him the mule bot we had, which had already been cleared in the radio that it was not emagged, had been smashed by him. After I asked him about that he started to break into sec. He disarmed me and tried to take the gun and kill me with it.
[2019-02-15 11:39:06.497] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge)->Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia): Since you ''overescalated'', to not call it random murder, i will apply a one day ban plus another 24 hours in top of that due to lying in ahelps and spacing the body.
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- Don't get involved in conflicts that don't affect you personally, neither act as a head of staff or security when someone breaks into an area that isn't yours. If he broke into cargo then maybe the story would be different but by your own admission you killed them for attacking someone else and because of destroying a mulebot they thought it was emagged.
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- You knew the reason of his actions, yet decided to kill them. Also you're saying here that he pushed you first, but this was done after you opened fire at them. Read the rules please.
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- 95[11:20:07] Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia) (Fore Primary Hallway (107, 157, 2))
- has been disarmed by Malkraz/(Rock Steel) with removing the energy gun[DC] (NEWHP: 100)
- 94[11:20:05] Bonkinton/(Akuro Ralphtalia) (Fore Primary Hallway (107, 158, 2))
- has shot Malkraz/(Rock Steel) with [laser] (NEWHP: 40)
The reason why this is lying in ahelps is due to you changing the reason why you killed him at last minute, informing me first that it caused due to him attacking someone else and the mulebot and then changing it to him not replying to you and trying to disarm you to kill you with the gun.
Incidences of admin abuse, negligence or disputed rulings can be taken to the forums. If an admin says something was 'looked into, handled, resolved' etc, regarding an issue, it is unlikely an admin will provide any further information. Admins are under no obligation to reveal IC information. Deliberately lying or misrepresenting facts in adminhelps will be dealt with harshly.
from https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Main ... thing_else

Therefore, i'll deny this appeal. I don't think the ban was unfair to you, neither was it done without reason.

And as a side request, please don't talk about the on going round with your friends anymore or cause drama. Scream at me in frustration, not in OOC where the players are trying to play.
Bella Rouge; no, it's not Rogue
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