BYOND account: Goodoldtimes
Character name: Damon Miller
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 1 day
Ban reason, time ban was placed: https://i.imgur.com/awxP3W6.png
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 145348
Your side of the story: I feel like this is also an admin complaint, so I'm not really sure where to post this. There were 2 admins on, Stickymayhem and (I think) FatalX01 who did not message me that round. It was about 45 minutes into a greenshift, I was playing the warden with nazi security, I spent most of the time decorating brig. Security has just finished a raid on cargo and put the QM and cargo technicians in permabrig. Then the captain tries calling the shuttle, it immediately gets denied and recalled. He tries it again and again later with the same result. Centcom responds with a report saying "there's no valid reason to call the shuttle".
That was the first red flag for me, there wasn't a single player who wanted to continue the round, but despite that the admin (whoever it was) decided it would be a great idea to keep the round from restarting. I joked in OOC saying exactly "Terry is a mrp server now", and OOC immediately got turned off. Knowing we're in for a fun time with mr. janitor, Captain asked the crew if they want to declare war on centcom, and the vote was a 100% yes. Captain messaged centcom, and the response we got was something along the lines of "There is no reason for calling the shuttle. This is an automatically generated message."
The captain must have kept sending messages, because some time later AI notified me on sec comms about "armed guards" from centcom on the station. Seeing as we were officially at war with centcom, I decided the appropiate course of action was to shoot on sight. I did just that when I walked on them standing in a hallway, and they immediately returned fire. I haven't seen the full scene before shooting, but apparently they were talking with security out of my sight. Shootout ensued, resulting in a lot of deaths on both sides (including me).
From what I've gathered and had no knowledge of while alive, centcom has sent friendly inspectors to talk with crew who officially declared war on them. This is completely ridiculous, and I don't know what Stickymayhem expected.
Why you think you should be unbanned: If this was an attempt at roleplay on a LRP server, then they are entirely missing what makes roleplaying fun: conflict. I tried explaining my reasoning in the ahelp when he messaged me, but I got the impression he wasn't listening to me. He kept repeating "not good enough" and finally gave me a 1-day ban while I was writing a lengthier response, brushing off my explanation as "wanting to kill valids" (since when is validhunting against the rules?).
Here's what I assume would happen if I hadn't shot at the centcom inspectors: Players who want to have fun while playing a video game are railroaded and fail to form coherent IC arguments for calling the shuttle, the inspectors resolve the conflict using their OOC protection and go about their day. An already long round gets extended indefinitely for no reason despite the majority of (if not all) players being against it but unable to do anything about it.
Here's what happened instead: By attacking them my character did what I thought was reasonable, being pissed at the people behind endless recalls I thought the message captain sent them was clear. If in a situation like this using lethal force is bannable, then any sort of roleplay apart from talking in a bar is ultimately pointless. I can't speak for other people, but I did not enjoy what admins were doing with the round, and have not seen anyone who did.
As I understand it, I got banned for trying to move the round forward, something the admin is supposed to do but failed at. I feel like it was valid escalation and made the round more engaging for players, and I'd at least like to know why Stickymayhem disagrees with me.
[<Stickymayhem>] Goodoldtimes - Pushing MRP policy on an LRP server
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Goodoldtimes
- Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:45 pm
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Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: [<Stickymayhem>] Goodoldtimes - Pushing MRP policy on an LRP server
Frankly this was a lenient ban.
Related logs
First of all, I didn't see your blatant OOC in IC during the round, so frankly this ban should have been longer than it is. You alluded to IC events in OOC, which everyone knows isn't ok, so getting so upset that you then further break the rules by spamming fuck jannies IC would have come with a punishment as is if we'd caught it.
The shuttle being called and recalled is irrelevant to this appeal.
Centcom inspectors are not antagonists, and are not automatically valid. Just because people were yelling about a war doesn't mean they were valid, and it was not your place as a "warden" (You had a prisoner ID) to charge into the backline of the centcom team and start buckshotting. You'll note that at the time you charged they were standing in front of several station crew with no violence taking place. Before you attacked them, they had been peacefully inspecting the station as the logs of the inspector show. You asked "where are they", got told and immediately rushed them with a shotgun and started blasting. This of course set off a massive conflict resulting in all of the centcom team dying, as well as some crew.
Related logs
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
The shuttle being called and recalled is irrelevant to this appeal.
Centcom inspectors are not antagonists, and are not automatically valid. Just because people were yelling about a war doesn't mean they were valid, and it was not your place as a "warden" (You had a prisoner ID) to charge into the backline of the centcom team and start buckshotting. You'll note that at the time you charged they were standing in front of several station crew with no violence taking place. Before you attacked them, they had been peacefully inspecting the station as the logs of the inspector show. You asked "where are they", got told and immediately rushed them with a shotgun and started blasting. This of course set off a massive conflict resulting in all of the centcom team dying, as well as some crew.
Having seen it take place, you pretty much opened fire the moment you saw a green uniform, so this is true, you had no idea what was going on when you decided to try murdering the centcom team.The captain must have kept sending messages, because some time later AI notified me on sec comms about "armed guards" from centcom on the station. Seeing as we were officially at war with centcom, I decided the appropiate course of action was to shoot on sight. I did just that when I walked on them standing in a hallway, and they immediately returned fire. I haven't seen the full scene before shooting, but apparently they were talking with security out of my sight. Shootout ensued, resulting in a lot of deaths on both sides (including me).
People are regularly punished for going straight to murder without enough information. This is not an excuse for pursuing violence.From what I've gathered and had no knowledge of while alive, centcom has sent friendly inspectors to talk with crew who officially declared war on them. This is completely ridiculous, and I don't know what Stickymayhem expected.
Excessive validhunting is against the rules. Given your behaviour of asking where they are, charging in with a lethal shotgun and firing the second you saw some green, I'm happy to say this was extreme validhunting.If this was an attempt at roleplay on a LRP server, then they are entirely missing what makes roleplaying fun: conflict. I tried explaining my reasoning in the ahelp when he messaged me, but I got the impression he wasn't listening to me. He kept repeating "not good enough" and finally gave me a 1-day ban while I was writing a lengthier response, brushing off my explanation as "wanting to kill valids" (since when is validhunting against the rules?).
This fan fiction is irrelevant to the complaintHere's what I assume would happen if I hadn't shot at the centcom inspectors: Players who want to have fun while playing a video game are railroaded and fail to form coherent IC arguments for calling the shuttle, the inspectors resolve the conflict using their OOC protection and go about their day. An already long round gets extended indefinitely for no reason despite the majority of (if not all) players being against it but unable to do anything about it.
These speaks to a severe lack of understanding of the rules. You are not an antagonist and should not be acting like one. Antagonists generate conflict, people who generate excessive conflict as non-antags regularly get warned and banned for that behaviour.Here's what happened instead: By attacking them my character did what I thought was reasonable, being pissed at the people behind endless recalls I thought the message captain sent them was clear. If in a situation like this using lethal force is bannable, then any sort of roleplay apart from talking in a bar is ultimately pointless. I can't speak for other people, but I did not enjoy what admins were doing with the round, and have not seen anyone who did.
It's impossible for this to be valid escalation when your first interaction with them, the first time you shared a screen with them in fact, was to immediately open fire with buckshot entirely unprompted. I hope this post helps you understand why I disagree with you and why this ban will stick, or you will be brushing up against a lot of 'admin abuse' like this in the future.As I understand it, I got banned for trying to move the round forward, something the admin is supposed to do but failed at. I feel like it was valid escalation and made the round more engaging for players, and I'd at least like to know why Stickymayhem disagrees with me.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
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Goodoldtimes
- Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:45 pm
Re: [<Stickymayhem>] Goodoldtimes - Pushing MRP policy on an LRP server
How is it irrelevant? It's literally the cause of everything that happened. Correct me if I'm wrong but it looked like it was constantly being admin recalled. What was the point of this? Did you join in the middle of the round just to force it to keep it going? A lot of people were dead/round removed. At the time I was pissed, like the rest of the crew.Stickymayhem wrote: The shuttle being called and recalled is irrelevant to this appeal.
Stickymayhem wrote: Just because people were yelling about a war doesn't mean they were valid,
People weren't "just yelling about a war". After a vote captain, with the support of crew, has messaged centcom with a war declaration. You just brushed it off, like you're doing now. Stuff like this makes players feel like they're not really a part of the round as whatever they do or say doesn't matter.
I was a roundstart warden and I was wearing my ID the whole time.Stickymayhem wrote: and it was not your place as a "warden" (You had a prisoner ID)
Captain declared war on centcom, they sent in armed men. I was 100% sure they were hostile and had no way of knowing that wasn't the case, I didn't see anything in comms. It wasn't murder, it's not like I silently removed one guy. I shot at a group of armed green men who retaliated, and I'm pretty sure the players involved found it fun.Stickymayhem wrote: People are regularly punished for going straight to murder without enough information. This is not an excuse for pursuing violence.
Then in your words, what were you planning would happen? Would you have let the shuttle be called after the inspectors finish their job? If so, then what was the point of all of this? It's not like they were creating some amazing narrative, all they were saying was "this station looks like shit" over and over.Stickymayhem wrote: This fan fiction is irrelevant to the complaint
This is almost never the case. During greenshifts plenty of people generate conflict, and this one wasn't an exception. I assume the HoP and cargo were not ahelped this round, I'd say they even made these 40 minutes somehow enjoyable. I don't think admins should interfere with situations such as these if not ahelped by the players who are involved in them.Stickymayhem wrote: These speaks to a severe lack of understanding of the rules. You are not an antagonist and should not be acting like one. Antagonists generate conflict, people who generate excessive conflict as non-antags regularly get warned and banned for that behaviour.
My first interaction with centcom this round was hearing the shuttle being recalled over and over, then command declaring war on them just to get blown off.Stickymayhem wrote: It's impossible for this to be valid escalation when your first interaction with them, the first time you shared a screen with them in fact, was to immediately open fire with buckshot entirely unprompted.
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Vekter
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: [<Stickymayhem>] Goodoldtimes - Pushing MRP policy on an LRP server
It has been precedent for a very long time that directly interfering with an active admin event is grounds for anything from being gibbed to being banned in more extreme cases.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
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Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: [<Stickymayhem>] Goodoldtimes - Pushing MRP policy on an LRP server
I'm only going to respond to stuff that's relevant because most of it is doesn't even serve your own arguments.
I didn't recall the shuttle, and it doesn't justify murder in any way so it's irrelevant to this appeal/complaintHow is it irrelevant? It's literally the cause of everything that happened. Correct me if I'm wrong but it looked like it was constantly being admin recalled. What was the point of this? Did you join in the middle of the round just to force it to keep it going? A lot of people were dead/round removed. At the time I was pissed, like the rest of the crew.
Did they open fire on the centcom team immediately? Did you rush into a warzone? No you walked into a negotiation and opened fire with no regard for what was going on. Players were trying to have fun their way and you're the one who ruined it with no concern for what the 9 people in that hallway were doing. You're the one who enforced what you wanted on the players.People weren't "just yelling about a war". After a vote captain, with the support of crew, has messaged centcom with a war declaration. You just brushed it off, like you're doing now. Stuff like this makes players feel like they're not really a part of the round as whatever they do or say doesn't matter.
I'm not going to go back into the logs again, but the person you shot immediately complained in deadchat that you had self antagged. Clearly they did not find being wordlessly shot in the back while roleplaying a tense stand off fun.Captain declared war on centcom, they sent in armed men. I was 100% sure they were hostile and had no way of knowing that wasn't the case, I didn't see anything in comms. It wasn't murder, it's not like I silently removed one guy. I shot at a group of armed green men who retaliated, and I'm pretty sure the players involved found it fun.
You had no interaction with the players you attempted to kill before attempting to kill them. I'm not lifting this, if anything this thread has convinced me the ban was too lenient due to the additional rules you broke I only caught due to the log dive.My first interaction with centcom this round was hearing the shuttle being recalled over and over, then command declaring war on them just to get blown off.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
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Fatal
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 3:25 pm
- Byond Username: FatalX1
Re: [<Stickymayhem>] Goodoldtimes - Pushing MRP policy on an LRP server
As the one who was doing the button pressing here, I'l explain what happened in detail from that perspective
Despite the OP stating it was a greenshift, it wasn't, there was actually 2 changelings roaming around but they were not doing a great deal and what they did, was pretty stealthy, at around the 40 minute mark, I figured it might be fun to do a centcomm inspection to spice the round up a little, these kind of events don't really force anyone to get involved if they don't want to
Whilst we were getting this ready, the shuttle was called with a particularly dumb reason, so I recalled it
A few minutes later, it was called again with a similarly dumb, nonsensical reason, these kinds of shuttle calls have always been grounds for recall honestly, and from what we could tell, there wasn't a massive desire for the shuttle (there were maybe 60 players on the server and I saw in the region of 10 asking for it)
The Captain sent a single message saying something along the lines, we declare war and we don't want to see you here, but we already had the inspection team pretty much ready to go at this point, so I sent the inspection team, once the inspection was done, the shuttle would no longer be recalled (this is already in the logs sticky posted, Inspector Calcium stated this to the Captain)
The inspection team went to the bridge to talk to the Captain, and then whilst everyone was talking, you started blasting them, and in the ensuing firefight, all 4 centcomm members were killed and about 4-5 of the crew were killed or crit from this
Despite the OP stating it was a greenshift, it wasn't, there was actually 2 changelings roaming around but they were not doing a great deal and what they did, was pretty stealthy, at around the 40 minute mark, I figured it might be fun to do a centcomm inspection to spice the round up a little, these kind of events don't really force anyone to get involved if they don't want to
Whilst we were getting this ready, the shuttle was called with a particularly dumb reason, so I recalled it
A few minutes later, it was called again with a similarly dumb, nonsensical reason, these kinds of shuttle calls have always been grounds for recall honestly, and from what we could tell, there wasn't a massive desire for the shuttle (there were maybe 60 players on the server and I saw in the region of 10 asking for it)
The Captain sent a single message saying something along the lines, we declare war and we don't want to see you here, but we already had the inspection team pretty much ready to go at this point, so I sent the inspection team, once the inspection was done, the shuttle would no longer be recalled (this is already in the logs sticky posted, Inspector Calcium stated this to the Captain)
The inspection team went to the bridge to talk to the Captain, and then whilst everyone was talking, you started blasting them, and in the ensuing firefight, all 4 centcomm members were killed and about 4-5 of the crew were killed or crit from this
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