[timberpoes] cacogen - Semen stains the creative corner

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[timberpoes] cacogen - Semen stains the creative corner

Post by cacogen » #619449

BYOND account: cacogen
Character name: « Fill this in on your own! »
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 1440 minutes
Ban reason: Renamed areas to names such as "Cum Town" and "Semen Mountain". When asked not to do this, did not take the ahelp seriously and responded rhetorically with comments such as "Are these not places you would like to inhabit? " and "Semen Mountain is a reference to the Neutral Milk Hotel song Oh Comely. It's a beautiful work." - When instead asked not to rename places to things that are Rule 8 violations no matter how minor they may think they are, then responded by attempting to rules lawyer their way out of it. You're fresh off a dayban this month. Take another day off to consider this.
Time ban was placed: 2021-11-16 06:04:26
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 173128
Your side of the story:
► Show Spoiler
When I joined the round, the admins had set up a "creative corner" outside escape. It was a very large room with a lot of equipment and materials in the centre of it (somewhat similar to the BYOS) as well as departmental techfabs, where players could build things. Not a lot of people did, though.

I spent most of the round helping the curator set up a matrix of pipes and filters in the corner of the room to try to remove the CO2 from the ice moon and warm it up. We ended up creating a very high pressure room full of CO2 but didn't make much of a dent in the atmosphere before it was time to leave. I don't know that it's actually possible to filter all the air on Ice Box but I'd still like to find out.

I'd just finished helping them heal somebody when I received an adminPM from Timberpoes:

From Ticket #8 during round 173128 on Manuel
Ticket opened at 2021-11-16 05:55:01 by timberpoes
Log:
05:55:01: Ticket Opened by-timberpoes: Please do not rename rooms are areas to things like "Cum Town" or "Semen Mountain".
05:55:38: Reply from-cacogen: Are these not places you would like to inhabit?
05:56:39: Reply from-timberpoes: I will say it again, please do not name areas things like "Cum Town" or "Semen Mountain".
05:57:33: Reply from-cacogen: Semen Mountain is a reference to the Neutral Milk Hotel song Oh Comely. It's a beautiful work.
05:59:41: Reply from-timberpoes: I will rephrase it. Please do not name areas to things that are rule 8 violations, no matter how minor you think they are.
06:00:21: Reply from-cacogen: Let me just refresh my memory on what Rule 8 is. You prude.
06:01:24: Reply from-cacogen: Ah yeah that's not what Rule 8 is supposed to cover, because it's not something sexual forced upon another player that makes them feel uncomfortable.
06:02:48: Reply from-cacogen: There was a thread about this and about whether it applied to WGW and library books in general and I said then that the wording should be made more specific so it was obvious what the intent of the rule was because we never used to have admins trying to apply it to stuff like this that is intended to be a joke and isn't being forced on someone else.
06:04:29: Resolved by Timberpoes
---- No futher messages ----
This ticket was generated by Statbus v.0.13.1

I incorrectly stated in my response that "Semen Mountain" was a reference to Oh Comely. The song I was actually referencing is the one embedded above. Though the metaphorical mountain range in that song never has a peak named it does seem appropriate to colloquially refer to at least one of them as "Semen Mountain", as all of them are stained with that reproductive fluid.

Earlier in the shift I'd taken one of the sets of blueprints the admins had spawned in the creative corner, and saw that the creative corner area was named "The Hut". I'm not sure who named it that (presumably not the admins) but that naming scheme stuck with me for the rest of the shift.

The first thing I renamed the creative corner to was "Cuck Shed," which I believe is what the NTR Hut on the forums was called before it was renamed to a slightly less obvious version. Later, I renamed it to something like "I don't even want these blueprints a" before returning the blueprints to the floor where I'd found them. Sometime after that I must've picked up the blueprints again and renamed the creative corner to "Cum Town". This was just copying the name of a podcast, so I changed it to something similar but slightly more original: "Semen Mountain".

The intention behind these name changes was to be pranky and immature and get a little chuckle out of anyone who might happen across them. Given the lack of vents, scrubbers or air alarms in the creative corner it was unlikely most players would even know the area's name.

I didn't accept Timberpoes' implication when he adminPM'd me that there was anything rulebreaking about renaming an area "Cum Town" or "Semen Mountain". I've renamed a number of things in a similar manner in the past and never had any issues. Once I stumbled across a bug with MULEbots that I'd hacked and renamed that caused their pathing to slow the server to a crawl and after I adminhelped to tell oranges they were the cause of the lag an admin PM'd me to point out the humourous nature of their names.

I don't agree that rule 8 applies here. Rule 8 is supposed to protect people from sexual harassment, not ban humour that reference sex. This was an area name that was almost completely invisible and any player could've changed. There were at least three sets of blueprints floating around, including the set I'd left on the floor after renaming the area "Semen Mountain". After being adminPM'd by Timberpoes, I checked these blueprints were still where I'd left them and that the space was still called "Semen Mountain". Either nobody knew it was called that or nobody cared enough to change it. This was not something unavoidable being forced on another player to make them uncomfortable as a rule 8 ban implies.

I don't think Timberpoes' objected to the renaming because he honestly thought it was a violation of rule 8. I don't know if he was the admin who built the space but I think he adminPM'd me because he took offense to me renaming something the admins had built to something that could be seen as taking the piss out of it and rule 8 was a convenient excuse to do so.

I don't know what rules lawyering is or whether it applies here but I don't think players who disagree with an admin about their interpretation of a rule should have it used against them or as a justification for a ban. I genuinely think there is confusion among newer admins about what rule 8 does and doesn't apply to because of the vague wording. Reading humourous books that are sexually explicit over comms like The Lusty Xenomorph Maid or WGW has completely died out and there was a forum thread with admins who wanted to ban these types of books because they believed they came under rule 8 when previously they had never been an issue.

I don't think that it's relevant that I was banned recently or that it justifies this ban. The two bans have nothing to do with each other. The ban I received about 11 days ago (Statbus won't work at the moment for me to check the exact amount of days) was for requesting bird crates. It was an IC issue that had already been resolved when the admin PM'd me. You can read more about it here.

Why you think you should be unbanned: Anonymously renaming an area "Semen Mountain" as a joke does not constitute sexual harassment so doesn't fall under what rule 8 is there to prevent.
References of good conduct:
Part of this appeal was generated by Banbus 0.13.1
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Re: [timberpoes] cacogen - Semen stains the creative corner

Post by Timberpoes » #619461

"Ha ha how very funny and mature," said Timberpoes' internal monologue upon seeing the name Semen Mountain, his inner voice thick like sarcastic marmite, "don't do it again."

I was originally only going to note for this because I didn't see it as the worst rule R8 issue. I did still see it as an R8 issue I needed to talk to you about.

When I tried to engage you directly with a polite request not to use names like that, you deflected it both times.

When I changed my approach to indicate that I felt this fell within rule 8, you tried to start a debate on the true meaning of rule 8.

I feel this clearly falls with my discretion to deal with under the spirit of what rule 8 seeks to protect players from having to tolerate in our spaceman game.

I was not and am not going to play pigeon chess with you to decipher the true hidden meaning behind rule 8. I also don't need to. The entire set of vibes I got from your ticket was an intent to waste my time.

Don't be a creep and don't rename areas to weird creepy names. When asked not to do things like this, sassing the admin is done at your own risk.

Since you don't seem to accept any responsibility, I stand by my original ruling and feel this was a fair and lenient way to handle you, the ticket and the incident based on your attitude and responses.

Appeal denied. You are free to escalate this up to the headmins if you want to waste their time like you have successfully now wasted mine.

If you have an issue with your previous ban, appeal it properly instead of posting it in off topic.
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Re: [timberpoes] cacogen - Semen stains the creative corner

Post by Timberpoes » #619463

For completeness sake, a record of all area renamings for the shift in question.

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... 8/game.txt

Code: Select all

	Line 1015:  [2021-11-16 02:59:47.033] GAME: Vladoricious/(Vladin Heir) has renamed the moon as I forgot to close the refrigerator door.
	Line 1397:  [2021-11-16 03:03:47.324] GAME: Bumtickley00/(Jay Owen) has renamed Creativity Platform to The Hut
	Line 1818:  [2021-11-16 03:07:28.267] GAME: Bumtickley00/(Jay Owen) has renamed Chemistry to The Funhouse
	Line 3449:  [2021-11-16 03:21:09.576] GAME: Cacogen/(Hector Green) has renamed The Hut to Cuck Shed
	Line 4858:  [2021-11-16 03:34:24.256] GAME: Vladoricious/(Vladin Heir) has renamed Cuck Shed to Creativity Room
	Line 5981:  [2021-11-16 03:46:08.054] GAME: Cacogen/(Hector Green) has renamed Creativity Room to Cum Town
	Line 6508:  [2021-11-16 03:50:43.504] GAME: Cacogen/(Hector Green) has renamed Cum Town to show me all the blueprints
	Line 7100:  [2021-11-16 03:55:00.101] GAME: Cacogen/(Hector Green) has renamed show me all the blueprints to I don't even want these blueprints an
	Line 17617: [2021-11-16 05:16:17.575] GAME: Cacogen/(Hector Green) has renamed I don't even want these blueprints an to Semen Mountain
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Re: [timberpoes] cacogen - Semen stains the creative corner

Post by Timberpoes » #619809

I had broader discussions with the admin team in the back channels since the OP brings up questions in whether I misapplied rule 8 to this.

Following those discussions, there's a possibility that I have overstepped in classifying this as a rule 8 issue instead of a "don't do this on MRP" issue. This is an understandable concern given the minor nature of this incident.

As a result I felt it necessary to escalate to the headmins myself to provide proper oversight of my handling of this.

In line with this, I flagged this appeal up with Rave to get a vibe check about adjusting the ban/note based on that additional feedback. Rave wanted to see what the other headmins thought and the ball is in their court for now.

Either myself or headmins will update if anything changes, this appeal will remain unresolved until then.
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Re: [timberpoes] cacogen - Semen stains the creative corner

Post by cacogen » #620436

Since receiving this ban I've seen a lot of this sort of humour on the servers in the form of messages written on the ground, comms chat, announcements, AI vox, etc. It doesn't seem unusual or like it's unique to me in any way. It seems to me that if people were being banned for it you wouldn't see it at all.

I happened to be on a Manuel round that you were online as an admin for where somebody had written something rude in pipes on the floor in the escape shuttle corridor. I adminhelped it because I was curious what would be done about it. A different admin answered and I wasn't told the outcome but the fact they weren't already working on it and that it hadn't already been dealt with despite it being in a highly visible location lead me to believe that A) Nobody else had adminhelped it and B) None of the admins who had noticed it did anything about it.

I agree that calling the "Creative Platform" "Semen Mountain" was not that funny, but you can see from the list of renames you provided that I was just looking for something humourous to call it. It's unfortunate that the name I settled on happened to be sexual in nature, because it gave you an opportunity to punish me for renaming the structure the admins had provided under rule 8.

Calling it creepy to justify upholding the ban is disingenuous at best and sets a precedent where admins don't have to prove that a player's actions were intended to make somebody else uncomfortable to get a rule 8 ban for behaviour they don't like (in this case renaming a structure the admins and possibly Timberpoes themselves built to something disrespectful).
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Re: [timberpoes] cacogen - Semen stains the creative corner

Post by Timberpoes » #620458

Re: intent to break the rules
Players accidentally break rules every day. Admins don't have to overcome any burden of proving intent except in the case of Rule 11; where intent to be bigoted is baked into the core wording of the rule.

And for administrative purposes, we actually don't talk in terms like intent. We use the much broader scope of good faith vs bad faith. They much better represent what admins look for when dealing with rule breaks.

Bad faith tends to manifest as wilful ignorance of the rules; genuine intent to break the rules; or breaking the rules to the detriment of the shift. Good faith tends to represent accidental rule breaks; making some effort to follow the rule but falling just short of actual compliance; or scenarios covered by The Secret Rule.

Whether a player's approach was more good faith or more bad faith will feed into the admin's final ruling or decision on how to handle the scenario.

For example, it doesn't matter if a player intended to IC in OOC. The mere fact they posted information about the current shift in OOC is enough to be OOC in IC whether they intended it or not.

However, admins will handle a player who we believe ick ocked in bad faith, for example venting about an antag who just killed them or telling people where their body is hidden, differently compared to a player who we believe ick ocked purely by accident, like where the message appears to be the player opening the OOC box by accident instead of saying the message IC or in dead chat.

The first will certainly earn earn a note and may end up with a ban. The second may earn a polite reminder to rebind the OOC key to prevent accidental presses as well as some traditional OOC hazing from the peanut gallery, with no formal action beyond that - But could also earn a note, albeit one that is worded far more in their favour.

Re: the current position of this appeal
I intended to ask you not to rename areas in that manner, document that I'd asked you not to do it via a note and call it a day. By and large the vast majority of people who get asked not to do minor things get handled in this manner.

When you didn't agree to stop, my view shifted more towards you approaching the scenario in bad faith. This is where the part above about what you believe regarding intent comes in. I will happily sit down and talk rules and enforcement for genuine hours with people, however I don't have to engage with those who I don't feel are replying to me in good faith. And I didn't believe you'd taken the matter seriously.

The ban wasn't for the naming incident in isolation. It was because I concluded you were approaching the matter in bad faith, responding flippantly and rhetorically to me in the ahelp. I felt your ticket conduct was obstructive. You weren't banned for naming things Cum Town or Semen Mountain. You were banned for naming things Cum Town or Semen Mountain and then not taking the ahelp seriously.

However, despite denying your appeal I have already escalated this up to the headmins myself.

There are suggestions within the admin team that I mis-stepped in classifying this as a rule 8 issue when I brought this appeal up for further discussion in the admin back channels.

If I was incorrect to classify it as a Rule 8 issue, then you had genuine grounds to protest my use of Rule 8 in the ticket. As a result, the day ban aspect really should be removed as you would have been technically correct (the best kind of correct) to challenge me in using it. In that scenario, I would not have placed the dayban and would have left it as just a note under broader "please don't do this on MRP" discretion (unless you continued sassing me, but I'll just assume you wouldn't have because I'm certain you're part of the crème de la crème of tg's intellectual elite).

As I posted here on the 18th; when I approached Rave to suggest that I may reconsider this appeal denial based on the feedback I'd gathered in the admin channels and wanting to touch base to make sure everything was handled properly, Rave wanted to see what the other headmins thought. As a result, the matter is broadly out of my hands as I don't wish to pre-empt the headmins' decisions.

Re: the other incident you ahelped
The round ID, server and dates can be found at https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/173277
The ticket with the player who we were investigating as part of this can be viewed by the headmins and other admins at https://atlantaned.space/tgdb/ticket/173277/14

Harricross picked up the initial ticket and it was handled as a team effort. A complete investigation was conducted including checking the forensics on ALL the pink pipes on the station via VV and eventually an SDQL query, as well as speaking to the player in question to gather more information. Harricross made the final ruling and concluded the matter based on the combined investigations.

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... 7/game.txt

Code: Select all

[2021-11-19 04:21:27.176] GAME: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) executed SDQL query(s): "SELECT /obj/machinery/atmospherics/pipe/smart WHERE name == "pink pipe" MAP [src. fingerprintslast]".
Most rule enforcement happens as a result of an ahelp bringing something previously unknown to the attention of admins. Very little of it is admins directly observing rule breaks as and when they happen.
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Re: [timberpoes] cacogen - Semen stains the creative corner

Post by cacogen » #620491

So I read your reply and I think I've gotten most of the points I wanted to respond to responded to below. We have lost a few along the way, though. For instance, the relevancy of the other recent ban in making a decision to ban me this time.

Rule 8 should definitely have more rigor to it than an admin being able to call something "creepy". The rule is there to prevent ERP and sexual harassment, not to police humour. The area name almost nobody saw affected who in what way, and how did that fall under rule 8? Players write similar jokes on the floor all the time without getting adminPM'd for it.

I didn't respect the adminPM because I knew it wasn't the type of thing you'd usually get adminPM'd for. You were doing it because I'd renamed a structure you built to something you didn't like. I'm still not willing to accept that it's an issue.

You act like getting a rule 8 note isn't a big deal. It's completely unjustified in this situation.

The pivot to making it an MRP issue seems like something you cooked up to save face for making an unjustified ban.

The pipes spelling "penis in outt" someone placed on the floor in the escape shuttle hallway during a round you were active for directly calls into question your motivation for making this ban, as well as whether that sort of joke is allowed on MRP. It was in a high traffic location during a round with at least three admins on. You did nothing about it until I adminhelped it. We still don't know what the outcome of that was, either.
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Re: [timberpoes] cacogen - Semen stains the creative corner

Post by Timberpoes » #620520

Re: just a joke gambit
Rule 8 should definitely have more rigor to it than an admin being able to call something "creepy". The rule is there to prevent ERP and sexual harassment, not to police humour. The area name almost nobody saw affected who in what way, and how did that fall under rule 8? Players write similar jokes on the floor all the time without getting adminPM'd for it.
"It's just a joke, bro" is a universal calling card for bad faith actors.

It attempts to excuse any behaviour because it was just meant to be for the lulz. It is not an excuse admins are required to care about, although we still choose to do so where appropriate. I did not feel this was one such appropriate incident.

When a joke falls flat and someone gets asked not to do it again, the expected response is to go "Okay" and then not do it again.

I felt that naming an area Cum Town or Semen Mountain fell under the "creepy stuff is not allowed" vibes of Rule 8. If the headmins disagree, then like always I shall simply adjust my own expectations and enforcement to line up with the times, as well as support adjusting both the note/ban reason as well as even removing the ban portion entirely.
I didn't respect the adminPM because I knew it wasn't the type of thing you'd usually get adminPM'd for. You were doing it because I'd renamed a structure you built to something you didn't like. I'm still not willing to accept that it's an issue.
Don't wear your ignorance as armour. It was not my event. I had no involvement in any part of it, except faffing around with a wall light in the South-Western room to debug why it wasn't working/illuminating the room properly. The event's architect wasn't even online at the time we noticed this.

Your area naming was brought to the attention of the admin team because MagmaExploiter noticed it and highlighted it in asay. We then did the usual investigative steps to find out who did it, and your name came up.

I chose to speak to you about it since I'd found the log entries where you'd changed the area names. I don't believe I'm stepping out of line by confidently asserting that all 3 admins investigating the matter believed it was at least worthy of being noted.

https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/manuel ... 8/game.log - Raw logs. Filtered search by word "Admin" and further filtered to conversation and actions relevant to this appeal, ticket or incident.
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[2021-11-16 05:48:41.810] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: MagmaExploiter2/(Rasha-Tanaka) "someone renamed the creativity room to semen mountain" (Semen Mountain (239,136,4))
[2021-11-16 05:48:49.029] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "bruh" (Semen Mountain (231,130,4))
[2021-11-16 05:48:51.513] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "we got logs for that?" (Semen Mountain (231,130,4))
[2021-11-16 05:49:19.539] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) "Maybe." (Chapel (182,135,3))
[2021-11-16 05:49:19.659] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: MagmaExploiter2/(Rasha-Tanaka) "i ammmm not sure where to look for that" (Semen Mountain (241,143,4))
[2021-11-16 05:50:03.570] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "it might be in DD" (Departure Lounge (194,141,4))
[2021-11-16 05:50:43.483] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "nup" (Semen Mountain (235,147,4))
[2021-11-16 05:50:51.778] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "  usr: Cacogen/(Hector Green)" (Semen Mountain (235,152,4))
[2021-11-16 05:50:53.461] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "nvm" (Semen Mountain (235,152,4))
[2021-11-16 05:50:58.937] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) " usr.loc: (Semen Mountain (247,144,4))" (Semen Mountain (235,152,4))
[2021-11-16 05:51:09.800] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "idk if he was the one who did it though" (Semen Mountain (235,152,4))
[2021-11-16 05:51:16.730] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "but they're the first instance of working on the "semen mountain"" (Icemoon Wastes (209,152,4))
[2021-11-16 05:51:36.366] ADMIN: MagmaExploiter2/(Rasha-Tanaka) checked the individual player panel for Cacogen/(Hector Green).
[2021-11-16 05:52:34.332] GAME: MagmaExploiter2/(Rasha-Tanaka) executed SDQL query(s): "SELECT /obj/item/areaeditor/blueprints".
[2021-11-16 05:52:34.333] ADMIN: Starting query #2 - [ select[ /obj/item/areaeditor/blueprints , [ world ] ] ].
[2021-11-16 05:52:34.604] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) "[2021-11-16 05:16:17.575] GAME: Cacogen/(Hector Green) has renamed I don't even want these blueprints an to Semen Mountain" (Chapel (182,135,3))
[2021-11-16 05:52:54.294] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) "Was cacogen, it's in game logs" (Chapel (182,135,3))
[2021-11-16 05:53:06.975] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "ah, gotcha" (Icemoon Wastes (206,143,4))
[2021-11-16 05:53:24.742] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "I probably should've checked game logs since it's usually the go to for all relevant logging lol" (Icemoon Wastes (175,187,4))
[2021-11-16 05:53:44.701] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) "#Line 3449: [2021-11-16 03:21:09.576] GAME: Cacogen/(Hector Green) has renamed The Hut to Cuck Shed" (Chapel (182,135,3))
[2021-11-16 05:53:47.150] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) "#Line 5981: [2021-11-16 03:46:08.054] GAME: Cacogen/(Hector Green) has renamed Creativity Room to Cum Town" (Chapel (182,135,3))
[2021-11-16 05:53:51.805] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) "#Line 6508: [2021-11-16 03:50:43.504] GAME: Cacogen/(Hector Green) has renamed Cum Town to show me all the blueprints" (Chapel (182,135,3))
[2021-11-16 05:53:54.841] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: MagmaExploiter2/(Rasha-Tanaka) "jesus christ" (Semen Mountain (237,138,4))
[2021-11-16 05:53:57.161] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) "#Line 7100: [2021-11-16 03:55:00.101] GAME: Cacogen/(Hector Green) has renamed show me all the blueprints to I don't even want these blueprints an" (Chapel (182,135,3))
[2021-11-16 05:54:02.767] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) "#Line 17617: [2021-11-16 05:16:17.575] GAME: Cacogen/(Hector Green) has renamed I don't even want these blueprints an to Semen Mountain" (Chapel (182,135,3))
[2021-11-16 05:54:13.336] ADMIN: MagmaExploiter2/(Rasha-Tanaka) checked the individual player panel for Cacogen/(Hector Green).
[2021-11-16 05:54:13.340] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) ":|" (Fore Primary Hallway (103,162,4))
[2021-11-16 05:54:26.830] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "I'm not sure how to rule this" (Central Primary Hallway (113,145,4))
[2021-11-16 05:54:30.265] ADMIN: harricross/(kitten) checked the player panel.
[2021-11-16 05:54:37.326] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "it's obviously shitty, but like" (Medbay Lobby (144,123,4))
[2021-11-16 05:54:37.692] ADMIN: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) checked the player panel.
[2021-11-16 05:54:40.501] ADMIN: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) checked the individual player panel for Cacogen/(Hector Green).
[2021-11-16 05:54:41.957] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(kitten) "on a scale..." (Medbay Aft (154,115,4))
[2021-11-16 05:55:02.608] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan)->Cacogen/(Hector Green): Please do not rename rooms are areas to things like "Cum Town" or "Semen Mountain".
Re: nobody enforces this
Players write similar jokes on the floor all the time without getting adminPM'd for it.
Whether other players do or do not get asked not to do things is also something you genuinely do not know. Because you're not an admin.

You can't see notes. You can't see tickets. You can't see non-permanent bans. You probably don't see other people banned for it because when asked not to, they just go "Ahh, okay. Sorry." and then get sent on their merry with sometimes without even a note if they appeared genuinely understanding of the matter.

A significant majority of players don't take the same approach you did in the ahelp, and thus their matter usually gets handled differently under that wonderful term called admin discretion.
The pivot to making it an MRP issue seems like something you cooked up to save face for making an unjustified ban.
I'm not saving face. I have already said that if I was incorrect to classify this as a rule 8 issue, the ban should be lifted as you would have been correct to challenge my use of rule 8 in that scenario. However, that does not automatically mean you didn't do anything wrong, just that I was wrong to classify it under Rule 8 instead of as a "don't degrade the quality of the MRP server" issue.

The main part of your ban was for not being serious and giving obstructive replies in the ahelp including trying to rules lawyer the third time I asked you not to do the thing. Your ban reason has a clear focus on you being obstructive in the ahelp. There's minor focus on rule 8 beyond documenting what I said to you. I spent the lion's share of the ban reason recording your ticket conduct.

If you were correct to rules lawyer because I was incorrect to apply rule 8, then the ban portion will be lifted as I was in the wrong to disregard your protest. What happens to the body of the note will be up to headmins as to if they feel this was worthy of being noted or not in the first place.

In any event where this is adjusted by the headmins, I will of course continue to adapt my expectations and approach to suit the headmin term's expectations.

Re: the pipes incident
I'm not sure why you're bringing into question my motivation for banning you in reference to an incident handled by another administrator, that happened after you were banned.

However, again please don't wear your ignorance as armour - it has an improvised AC of 0 and no modifiers. This should put to bed your conspiracy theory.

https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/manuel ... 7/game.log - Filtered for lines containing the word "admin" starting from Cacogen's ticket. Not viewable by non-admins. The ckey of the player who I identified and who harricross bwoinked is snipped for discretionary reasons, however some of this information may be available in the public logs.
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[2021-11-19 04:16:50.546] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #13: Cacogen/(Grady Mary): It says "penis in outt" on the floor in the Starboard Primary Hallway. - heard by 4 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[2021-11-19 04:17:17.296] ADMIN: MagmaExploiter2/(Rasha-Tanaka) deleted Rasha-Tanaka at  (9,41,2)
[2021-11-19 04:17:21.362] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) "Cacogen can't read. That says butt." (Starboard Primary Hallway (177,129,4))
[2021-11-19 04:17:25.799] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) "Classy." (Starboard Primary Hallway (177,127,4))
[2021-11-19 04:17:32.256] ADMIN: NoxVS deadminned themselves.
[2021-11-19 04:17:39.370] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(Bulgarian Assassin) "ow stomach" (Escape Pod One (133,72,4))
[2021-11-19 04:18:17.408] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(Bulgarian Assassin) "oh goodie" (Starboard Primary Hallway (170,128,4))
[2021-11-19 04:18:19.614] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(Bulgarian Assassin) "who done did this" (Starboard Primary Hallway (170,130,4))
[2021-11-19 04:18:30.807] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: MagmaExploiter2/(Rasha-Tanaka) "oh wew lad." (Starboard Primary Hallway (155,128,4))
[2021-11-19 04:18:33.309] ADMIN: harricross/(Bulgarian Assassin) checked the player panel.
[2021-11-19 04:18:38.333] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: harricross/(Bulgarian Assassin) "ey maga" (Starboard Primary Hallway (173,128,4))
[2021-11-19 04:18:39.985] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) ""[SNIPPED]". Ckey: [SNIPPED] " (Chapel (186,132,4))
[2021-11-19 04:18:44.057] ADMIN: harricross/(Bulgarian Assassin) checked the individual player panel for [SNIPPED]/([SNIPPED]).
[2021-11-19 04:18:50.718] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Timberpoes/(Sasile Kerrigan) "Possibly. Checking fingerprints." (Chapel (186,132,4))
[2021-11-19 04:18:57.688] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Harricross/(Bulgarian Assassin)->Cacogen/(Grady Mary): I'll take a look into it.
[2021-11-19 04:19:18.015] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Harricross/(Bulgarian Assassin)->[SNIPPED]/([SNIPPED]): Hey there, were you the one who placed pipes down to spell out, "PENIS IN BUTT"?
At the time of your ahelp, MagmaExploiter was on the mining z-level, I was helping an antag with a romerol gimmick which involved the mining z-level, NoxVS had been involved in the shift as a ghost role romerol zombie and I assume deadminned as a result of that and I have no clue what Harricross was doing.

Looking at our responses immediately following your ahelp, do you still suspect this is all a big conspiracy theory that we already knew PENIS IN BUTT was spelled out on the floor and that we only acted because you ahelped?

Again, the admins and headmins can look at the ticket in question with the player who did it at https://atlantaned.space/tgdb/ticket/173277/14

The admin team has no obligation to tell you the specifics of how matters are resolved between admins and players. Telling other players such details is discretionary.

Re: the recent ban
For instance, the relevancy of the other recent ban in making a decision to ban me this time.
The previous ban factors in for relevancy in the context of whether you're here in bad faith. When you get a note or a ban with reasons that suggest you're playing in bad faith, don't be surprised when admins don't assume good faith when you do silly stuff again in the future.

I simply exercised a discretion to ban you for your ticket conduct ontop of the incident, instead of just noting you for the incident in isolation. I felt what I was asking you not to do wasn't unreasonable and your responses implied you were approaching a scenario in bad faith similarly to your previous incident with cargo earlier in the month.
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cacogen
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Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:27 am
Byond Username: Cacogen

Re: [timberpoes] cacogen - Semen stains the creative corner

Post by cacogen » #621111

I got tired of the quote mining and endless snarky back and forth. I'd mainly just be repeating myself at this point anyway. Semen Mountain is no hill to die on. Hopefully the headmins will get to this before Christmas.
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tattle
In-Game Head Admin
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:04 pm
Byond Username: Dragomagol

Re: [timberpoes] cacogen - Semen stains the creative corner

Post by tattle » #621203

We do not believe that these names were in violation of rule 8, and despite the initial lack of cooperation in the ticket there was an attempt to engage with Timber afterwards. We don't think this is banworthy, but we do agree it is noteworthy due to the fact that giving areas these kinds of low-quality names is distracting and brings down the MRP atmosphere.

As such, we've decided to edit the note to the following:
Renamed areas to names such as "Cum Town" and "Semen Mountain". When asked not to do this, did not take the ahelp seriously and responded rhetorically with comments such as "Are these not places you would like to inhabit? " and "Semen Mountain is a reference to the Neutral Milk Hotel song Oh Comely. It's a beautiful work." Giving areas these kinds of low-quality names is distracting and brings down the MRP atmosphere.
Headmin Votes:
RaveRadbury: Edit note
Dragomagol: Edit note
NamelessFairy: Edit note
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