Ban Appeal to NoxVS's decision

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KarlKPatts
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:09 am

Ban Appeal to NoxVS's decision

Post by KarlKPatts » #620360

BYOND account: Karl K. Patts
Character name: Karl K. Patts
Ban type: Server
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Metacomms/metafriend with MrWearily. Was teaching them about the game but also gave them advantages, such as letting them into armory. Decided to give guns out to the whole crew as security beacause of "2nd amendment rights." and killed a sec officer who just joined because "he knew too much.
Player just here iin bad faith if they are killing people without any good reason.
Time ban was placed: This ban (BanID #57442) was applied by NoxVS on 2021-11-24 04:00:28
Server you were playing on when banned: Basil (US-WEST)
Round ID in which ban was placed: 173574
Your side of the story:
Due to the large amount of chaos we have witnessed several games before. MrWearily and I decided the best course of action would be to distribute weapons amongst the crew to ensure their safety. Knowing how my friend is in a wheelchair, and have seen players pick on him for being crippled, it was only fair to give them necessary equipment to give them a fighting chance. When we were nearly done and ready to move out. Another security officer walked in on us and caught us in the act. Knowing he would rat us out for any higher up and possibly try to kill us ourselves, we realized we had to kill him in order to continue with out roleplay, and hide the body in a locker.
Medical personnel discovered the other sec officer was injured, so at first we had to misguide them to buy us more time, so we told them their equipment was malfuncitoning, and we last saw him heading towards mess hall. When they came back, we decided to pretend to find the body as to give the illusion of innocent, and get the medical personnel off our backs. By the time we were about to get ready for more traitors, the admin bwoinked me about everything and asked what happened. Because I was distracted with the admin, I was killed by a traitor and turned into a zombie.
Why you think you should be unbanned: There are a few reasons why i consider the ban unfair.
1. Our cause was justified.
We stated the reason to distribute weapons was the crewman's 2nd amendment right to bear arms in sefl defense is a viable reason, and was proven 100% justified due to the zombie outbreak. When there is a threat, it is common practice to distribute weapons to several station perosnnel regardless of rank. (EX: Blob infestation, cultists, zombies, spiders, etc.)
2. MrWearily needed easy means of tutorial of game.
MrWearily just started playing SS13 today, and was needing help with understanding the games complex UI, and game mechanics. He still has a lot to learn, but is enjoying the game so far. 'Metacomms' was only kept to explaining how the game works, and could not be done through IC chat due to being too distracting and slow for him.
MrWearily was given armor this round because 1. He saw me in sec IC, and wanted in to help distribute weapons. 2. Several players round before bullied him for being in a wheelchair, and even killed/ taken his WC, so it was only fair to arm him to prevent this from happening.
3. Killing another player 'for no reason' is not true.
The other security officer was a witness to what he would considered a crime. Letting him go would have lead to the both of us either being apprehended by players with higher up roles, or being killed ourselves. It was either him or us, we HAD to kill him and hide the evidence. To tell us this isn't allowed impedes on our gameplay, and forces us into a losing battle. All players will do this if they were in this scenario, in fact I was in the security officer's position where I was killed for witnessing other players doing shady actions. But it was never an issue because it was funny and my body was still eventually recovered and revived, which was what was happening to him.
Another thing I want to note is that NoxVS said players can't died due for roleplay, which isn't true. If it were the case, Cultist wouldn't be able to kill and bring back players ot join their ranks, roboticists couldn't place a player's brain inside of a borg, and other roles that require this.
Ironically, despite NoxVS saying we killed the sec 'for no good reason', he never brought up any argument or reason as to WHY he deemed it as not a good reason. We were justified in our motive, it was a logical thing to do in roleplay, and was a common thing any player in our situation would do. The only argument I could see be brought up was how it prevented the player from playing the game. Which still wouldn't hold enough backing to deem the kill 'no reason' because Medical personnel were smart, and were still able to recover his body and revive him to allow him to play the game again. Again, this happens to several players in several matches.

To the sec we killed. Sorry mate, nothing personal but you saw too much and it was either you or us.

I would've been fine with a short ban length, but a perma ban is unnecessary for all the reasons provided.

/tg/ station is pretty banger and I would still like to vibe with this station. A lot of good lads to hang out with.

References of good conduct: Helped prevent an SM meltdown once. Also saved the remaining crew on the escape shuttle from a space dragon once by fending it off with only a shotgun, but these were months ago when I took a break from SS13.
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NoxVS
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:43 pm
Byond Username: NoxVS

Re: Ban Appeal to NoxVS's decision

Post by NoxVS » #620370

KarlKPatts wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:14 amWe stated the reason to distribute weapons was the crewman's 2nd amendment right to bear arms in sefl defense is a viable reason, and was proven 100% justified due to the zombie outbreak. When there is a threat, it is common practice to distribute weapons to several station perosnnel regardless of rank. (EX: Blob infestation, cultists, zombies, spiders, etc.)
The outbreak happened well after you had decided to hand guns out to everyone. Your initial reason was just "2nd amendment rights" and "Right for crew members to bear arms shall not be infringed", and then the zombie outbreak happened mid ticket and you used that as justification after the fact. Had the zombie outbreak started before you decided to break the armory open, that would have been perfectly fine.

First instance of you mentioning distributing guns in the armory (https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html)

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[2021-11-24 03:09:25.513] SAY: 03:09:25.513] SAY: Karl K. Patts/(Karl Scarlet) "distribute the weapons" (Armory (107,173,2))
[2021-11-24 03:09:35.037] SAY: 03:09:35.037] SAY: Karl K. Patts/(Karl Scarlet) "2a rights" (Armory (107,173,2))
[2021-11-24 03:09:38.759] SAY: 03:09:38.759] SAY: Karl K. Patts/(Karl Scarlet) "were american" (Armory (107,173,2))
[2021-11-24 03:09:50.807] SAY: 03:09:50.807] SAY: Karl K. Patts/(Karl Scarlet) "no" (Armory (107,173,2))
[2021-11-24 03:10:08.686] SAY: 03:10:08.686] SAY: Karl K. Patts/(Karl Scarlet) "dooms day preppers" (Armory (107,173,2))
First instance of romerol being injected/consumed in any form. I left out instances of it being transferred between containers. (https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... attack.txt)

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[2021-11-24 03:19:22.310] ATTACK: Magical 7.62x39/(Jimmy Gilbert) has injected Wulfenbach/(Hannah Nosferatu) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/romerol (5u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 100)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,132,2))
Note the 10 minute difference in time.
KarlKPatts wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:14 am MrWearily just started playing SS13 today, and was needing help with understanding the games complex UI, and game mechanics. He still has a lot to learn, but is enjoying the game so far. 'Metacomms' was only kept to explaining how the game works, and could not be done through IC chat due to being too distracting and slow for him.
MrWearily was given armor this round because 1. He saw me in sec IC, and wanted in to help distribute weapons. 2. Several players round before bullied him for being in a wheelchair, and even killed/ taken his WC, so it was only fair to arm him to prevent this from happening.
And you are free to coach him over discord or whatever as long as you aren't also playing the game. If both of you are actively playing and talking about the game it is very easy to start giving each other info you shouldn't have, which seems to have ended up happening. There is also the problem of metafriending, where you decided to give him access to the armory purely because you know him outside the game.

Here are his say logs leading up to the two of you gunning down the sec officer if you still feel like saying all your interactions with him were IC. He had said nothing else the whole round up until the officer was killed.
(https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html)

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[2021-11-24 03:09:45.012] SAY: 03:09:45.012] SAY: MrWearily/(Mr Munster) "im looking for armory" (Storage Wing (85,147,2))
[2021-11-24 03:14:46.200] SAY: 03:14:46.200] SAY: MrWearily/(Mr Munster) "im just a parapalegic" (Armory (108,171,2))
KarlKPatts wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:14 am The other security officer was a witness to what he would considered a crime. Letting him go would have lead to the both of us either being apprehended by players with higher up roles, or being killed ourselves. It was either him or us, we HAD to kill him and hide the evidence. To tell us this isn't allowed impedes on our gameplay, and forces us into a losing battle.
You are ignoring the fact that you didn't HAVE to break the armory open and hand guns out to everyone. Instead, you impeded on the gameplay of someone who had just joined the station only to be gunned down because he had "seen too much".
KarlKPatts wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:14 amin fact I was in the security officer's position where I was killed for witnessing other players doing shady actions. But it was never an issue because it was funny and my body was still eventually recovered and revived, which was what was happening to him.
Yes, his body was recovered. This happened despite your attempts to stop it. You stuffed him in a security locker and later tried convincing medical not to go looking for him. (https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html)

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[2021-11-24 03:18:45.940] SAY: 03:18:45.940] SAY: Mikhial/(Archie von Count) "gene is located in sec office" (Fore Primary Hallway (106,156,2))
[2021-11-24 03:18:58.234] SAY: 03:18:58.234] SAY: Karl K. Patts/(Karl Scarlet) "he isnt" (Fore Primary Hallway (108,157,2))
[2021-11-24 03:19:05.792] SAY: 03:19:05.792] SAY: Karl K. Patts/(Karl Scarlet) "however I did see him head towarss mess hall" (Fore Primary Hallway (108,157,2))
[2021-11-24 03:19:29.137] SAY: 03:19:29.137] SAY: Karl K. Patts/(Karl Scarlet) "Im telling you no one is here" (Fore Primary Hallway (108,157,2))
[2021-11-24 03:19:41.324] SAY: 03:19:41.324] SAY: Karl K. Patts/(Karl Scarlet) "please check mess hall, that's the last of where we saw them" (Fore Primary Hallway (108,157,2))
KarlKPatts wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:14 amAnother thing I want to note is that NoxVS said players can't died due for roleplay, which isn't true. If it were the case, Cultist wouldn't be able to kill and bring back players ot join their ranks, roboticists couldn't place a player's brain inside of a borg, and other roles that require this.
Cultists are an antagonist. You are not.
Cyborg brains consent to death. Gene did not. Even when the cyborg brains don't consent there is usually a good reason that allowed for their death to occur anyways. Such as behaving like an antagonist.
KarlKPatts wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:14 amIronically, despite NoxVS saying we killed the sec 'for no good reason', he never brought up any argument or reason as to WHY he deemed it as not a good reason. We were justified in our motive, it was a logical thing to do in roleplay, and was a common thing any player in our situation would do. The only argument I could see be brought up was how it prevented the player from playing the game. Which still wouldn't hold enough backing to deem the kill 'no reason' because Medical personnel were smart, and were still able to recover his body and revive him to allow him to play the game again. Again, this happens to several players in several matches.
The following sentences are taken straight from the rules page. I mentioned one of them word for word in the ticket with you.

Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 ban.

If you are the instigator in a conflict and end up killing or severely impairing the round of the person you are fighting, you should make a reasonable effort to return them to life at least once or make amends, only seeking round removal if they continue to pursue you. This protection doesn't apply to an instigator being killed.

Security is expected not to retaliate with random abuse or violence unless the person in question is otherwise eligible for execution. You can't kill or maim security for trying to arrest you for legitimate reasons.
KarlKPatts wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:14 amI would've been fine with a short ban length, but a perma ban is unnecessary for all the reasons provided.
The permaban was due to you engaging in metacomms (Treated extremely harshly because of how difficult it is to find) and for failing to understand what is wrong with killing someone for no reason (The killing alone would have been like 24 hours or even just a note if it was a mistake or misunderstanding. Fabricating a reason to kill someone is not a mistake or misunderstanding)
The weak should fear the strong
thehogshotgun wrote:How does having jannies like you, who have more brain tumor than brain benefit the server
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NoxVS
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:43 pm
Byond Username: NoxVS

Re: Ban Appeal to NoxVS's decision

Post by NoxVS » #620503

If there isn't any further response I am just going to considered this denied
The weak should fear the strong
thehogshotgun wrote:How does having jannies like you, who have more brain tumor than brain benefit the server
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