[Thunder12345] MitchTheSkele

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MitchTheSkele
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:58 pm

[Thunder12345] MitchTheSkele

Post by MitchTheSkele » #641284

Account: MitchTheSkele
Character Name: Mitch Jones
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 1 day
Ban Reason: As a chemist, got hit accidentally with a claymore by the HoS while they were trying to kill the chaplain. Took further issue when the HoS wanted to revive the chaplain
For questioning. They came back later, ambushed the HoS with a syringe gun and killed them. This is not proper response to getting accidentally caught in the crossfire while security are doing
their job.
Server: Sybil
Time ban was placed: 2022-05-18
Round ID: 183358

My side of the story: Saved cap twice and revived him early in the round while traitor went on a rampage. Traitor eventually dies from somehow being dusted in the hall (probably by genetic meltdown). I go around and gather caps gear tot looted and return it to him at bridge. I walk out, get batoned and looted in the hall by HoS "WHERE IS THE CAPTAINS ID?!" while I try handing them the tots uplink and I try telling them clearly the cap got his ID back. Later I come to the entrance of med and det is being killed and trying to crawl away from the chaplain, I shoot the chaplain with a syringe and take his sword, save the det and get them out of crit. I pursue the chaplain being pulled down departures by his ghost, suddenly here comes Hos with a shield and claymore after they emagged holodeck immediately smacking me in the head with it (apparently I was supposed to assume during all the chaos it was an accident after previous negative interactions that round) I run to medical because I am bleeding out fast and in comes hos pulling the murderous chaplain trying to revive him. I run up and hit the chaplain with his nullrod and HoS starts shoving me over claymore still in hand. I had not "ambushed" HoS, most of this happened in my department within a 5-10 minute time span. By this point I was tired of HoS, but did NOT want to RR or kill them. I shot HoS with a teslium syringe and took their claymore away(typical sec gear of course). They obviously freaked out and went full on kill mode. I told them leave med, and gave them atropine and heals so they wouldn't die. They return shortly after with some gear from armory, guns blazing again and at THIS point I do end up killing them with their own claymore. If kudzu had not gotten out of control and someone didn't murder me, they probably even then would have been revived despite clearly not wanting to give up on killing me. It would have more than likely continued until I was the one dead or I gave up and just decided to ahelp.

Why I think I should be unbanned: I know for a fact based on past experiences in Sybil, if I had not retaliated my round would end permanently. I was told I should ahelp sec acting like this instead of handling it IC, past experiences doing this it would probably get marked as an ic issue, ticket closed and my round is pretty much over for the next hour. (which based on how chaotic the round was, I don't understand how this wouldn't be marked as such). This ticket was being handled far into the round being delayed, so I understand it needed to be closed so everyone could enjoy the next round. I spent a lot of time making synthflesh, setting up med and even assisting sec and command so I was clearly not playing with the intention to grief and tried to make the right move during all of the madness occurring.

Side note: Very long winded appeal for a 24 hour ban, my apologies it was a very chaotic round. I had previously had a very short ban after a decently long time with zero notes I took without question as I knew I acted poorly. Weirdly enough I was randomly privately messaged on discord right after this by the hos in question saying I ruined their "fun round where they were trying to be robust, and next time I should be nice to them when I catch them playing" and was told they were "too busy to listen to my reasoning" because their duties as HoS got distracting in response to why they didn't communicate to me in game. I think they were trying to be civil? But it came off wrong.
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Thunder11
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Re: [Thunder12345] MitchTheSkele

Post by Thunder11 » #641308

Parsed logs for the round are here: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... nd-183358/

I'll break down the key points in your post one by one.
MitchTheSkele wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:33 pm I walk out, get batoned and looted in the hall by HoS "WHERE IS THE CAPTAINS ID?!" while I try handing them the tots uplink and I try telling them clearly the cap got his ID back.
A classic example of the Sally-Anne test in action. The HoS doesn't necessarily know the ID was already returned so I see nothing wrong with their search of you.
MitchTheSkele wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:33 pm suddenly here comes Hos with a shield and claymore after they emagged holodeck immediately smacking me in the head with it (apparently I was supposed to assume during all the chaos it was an accident after previous negative interactions that round)
They hit you once with the claymore, started pulling the chaplain instead of hitting you again, and in the two seconds before hit the chaplain and then his shade, so it seems most reasonable to interpret this an an accidental hit barring any specific reason to believe otherwise.
► Show Spoiler
MitchTheSkele wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:33 pm and in comes hos pulling the murderous chaplain trying to revive him
The chaplain claimed it was self defence in his deathgasp. Security is under no obligation to keep dead people dead, and are allowed to revive dead suspects if they want to question them.
► Show Spoiler
MitchTheSkele wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:33 pm I run up and hit the chaplain with his nullrod and HoS starts shoving me over claymore still in hand. I had not "ambushed" HoS, most of this happened in my department within a 5-10 minute time span. By this point I was tired of HoS, but did NOT want to RR or kill them. I shot HoS with a teslium syringe and took their claymore away(typical sec gear of course). They obviously freaked out and went full on kill mode. I told them leave med, and gave them atropine and heals so they wouldn't die.
Beating a body someone is trying to revive is liable to see them pushing you over to make you stop. Shooting the HoS with a syringe, stealing a dangerous melee weapon and then healing them is not the worst offense ever, but from the HoS's point of view this is highly illegal and given the threat posed by syringe guns the fact you were using one as a weapon is undoubtedly going to influence their view of your behaviour in the future.
MitchTheSkele wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:33 pm They return shortly after with some gear from armory, guns blazing again and at THIS point I do end up killing them with their own claymore.
Here we come to the key issue at hand, and your omission of a key part of this final exchange. When the HoS came back into medbay you instigated this confrontation by shooting them with a syringe. You had other options to resolve this conflict non-lethally, including running away, or if you believed they were intent on killing you shooting them with the syringe then fleeing. Instead you chose to initiate a fight, stick around to continue the fight when the HoS defended herself, and to kill the HoS when you won the fight.
► Show Spoiler
MitchTheSkele wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:33 pm I know for a fact based on past experiences in Sybil, if I had not retaliated my round would end permanently
Previous experience only goes so far, and it does not go so far as to allow you to proactively attack security because you believe they intend to kill you, after you have given them ample reason to be looking for you.

In summary, your actions were not reasonable when it came to the final confrontation between you and the HoS, as you aren't allowed to attack and subsequently kill them for doing their job, in this case their job being to potentially arrest you over the fight a couple of minutes prior. If they had opened fire on you first it would have been more justificable, but you fired the first shot based on an assumption as to their intentions. I see nothing here which would make me reconsider my verdict on this incident.
ImageImage
Spoiler:
IcePacks wrote:
MrFoster wrote:Back in my day, we didn't complain about lag! We used it to queue attacks!
That's thinking on your feet, soldier!
Quality Paprika from #coderbus wrote:[11:35.52] <paprika> holy crap so yeah i don't care about your opinion at all
oranges wrote:
Excuse me? Thats for sensible and calm rational debate, not for senseless whining.
Resident Catmin, please direct catposting to: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5578
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