[Iain0] Decker-5 banned for making shuttle a little too hot and cold at the same time

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Decker5
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:21 pm
Byond Username: Decker-5

[Iain0] Decker-5 banned for making shuttle a little too hot and cold at the same time

Post by Decker5 » #648947

BYOND account:Decker-5
Character name:Arne Magnusson
Ban type: Server
Ban length:7 Days
Ban reason: ''One of two non-antags set off napalm grenades on the emergency shuttle, flushing some people into space, killing others. Has a previous note for incendiary grenades on the shuttle.''
Time ban was placed:2022-08-06 20:58:00 UTC +3
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: ID 188040,
Your side of the story: It was a pretty empty shift, I had 2 hellfoam grenades and a smoke grenade containing radium and a bit of polonium, pre-planned to set them off in shuttle. But around maybe 3-4 minutes before shuttle ETA I saw this fellow who I assumed to be a ling after reading that they had changeling adrenaline in their blood (using the health analyzer) so I took them to the chapel, handed them two grenades (at the time I wasn't sure which grenade was which, but later turned out he had one hellfoam and the radiation smoke nade) and I said to him ''set them off when we depart'' Yada,yadda shuttle departs, we hang around for a while and the first two grenades are detonated about 30-40 seconds before we get the round-end text, I stood in the cascade of flames and grabbed one last grenade that I had given this fellow and detonated it myself. The resulting explosion caused people to slip out of the huge hole in the shuttle and a few burnt to death, Roundend text appeared around 20 seconds after I had detonated the third grenade.
When the rounded text appeared on that round it showed that there were quite literally 0 antagonists on this particularly boring shift. After a little bit of back and forth with Iain0 I got banned for 7 days.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I really don't think this really impacted anyone's shift because I thought it would be funny to set off hellfoams on the shuttle
nobody got redtexts or greentexts, but they sure got spicy and then quickly cold in the emptiness of space.
[b]Anything else we should know: It also says on my ban that I ''have a previous note for incendiary grenades on shuttle'' however this was my very first time doing this on the shuttle, and I believe that lain0 mistook my notes with the other person who helped me detonate the grenades.
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Timberpoes
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Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:54 pm
Byond Username: Timberpoes

Re: [Iain0] Decker-5 banned for making shuttle a little too hot and cold at the same time

Post by Timberpoes » #648948

Highlighting a point of clairty in our rules about shuttle grief and how the rules on it are generally applied:

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules

Rule 1, Precedent 3
Rules still apply until the emergency escape shuttle has reached Centcom and the round-end antagonist report has appeared. When the shuttle has reached Centcom, players are free to act as per lone antagonists, detailed in Rule 4. Non-antagonist grief upon the shuttle, from spamming flashbangs for no reason to spraying space lube, can be met with instant 5 (five) minute bans or more.
Interpretation of this rule in the past has usually been that there is no tapering of seriousness as the shuttle approaches its destination. Admins generally apply the rules exactly the same whether you grief 1 second early or 2 minutes early.

The purpose behind that approach is to prevent situations like this, where players grief the shuttle before the round finishes and then argue "it was only 30 seconds before the shuttle docked, I shouldn't be punished for [consequences of actions]".

Highlighting the following point of clarity about your note history:

You have the following note on your record
2022-01-08 20:13:05 | Manuel | Round 176254 | Ze Doctor | 4h Living Playtime

As a non antag threw incendiary grenades on the emergency shuttle before it had docked at CC. Please do remember that end of round grief does not begin until after the end of round report appears
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iain0
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 pm
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Re: [Iain0] Decker-5 banned for making shuttle a little too hot and cold at the same time

Post by iain0 » #648959

Just to double down on what Timberpoes had to say there, I will admin-interact with anyone who invalidly sets off any kind of weapon on the shuttle before the "The round has ended" text is logged, at any delay, even hundredths of a second, simply because all of these cases are people trying to "get there first" with their end-of-round-grief weapon of mass destruction and I personally could not care less about this as an excuse. Be aware shuttles have a variable docking lag. The whole 'get there first' is just a slippery slope if any ground is given, and there is an objective marker that we can all rely on as the "go" signal which is the round end marker as per above.

Publicly accessible log files are available at https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... nd-188040/

Code: Select all

Attack log : [2022-08-06 20:50:34.800] ATTACK: Decker-5/(Arne Magnusson) primed a chemical grenade at Luxurious Emergency Shuttle (23,159,13) containing: (large beaker 1 : Napalm, 45 | Carbon, 10 | Fluorosurfactant, 25 | Chlorine Trifluoride, 20); (large beaker 2 : Napalm, 45 | Stable Plasma, 10 | Radium, 10 | Water, 20 | Chlorine Trifluoride, 15);. (Luxurious Emergency Shuttle (23,159,13))
 ...
 Game log : [2022-08-06 20:52:09.196] GAME: The round has ended.
 
You weren't even close, this is like 'shuttle has barely left' territory.

Greenshifts are part of the game's intended dynamic ; some rounds will be action packed and generate complaints about not being able to just "play the game", others will be quiet and generate complaints about boredom. Your best bet in altering things is to consider getting the captain to engage with centcom or god via pray and hope that admins will intervene in some way, there is no sudden freedom at your end to play the game by any different rules than normal.

Why you think you should be unbanned - this whole section is just /your/ opinion of what matters. For some people, they will have different measures, many a non antag may count their own survival in that, for others it will be annoyance at having being cheated of the chance to use THEIR own end-of-round-grief contraptions since you jumped the gun and got there first. Which again feeds back to the slippery slope, if this behaviour wasn't clamped down on then people will start arguing they wanted to make sure their thing happened before everyone else killed them so they set things off earlier ... and earlier ... and so on. Regardless it again is not up to you to make these determinations to an extent that allows you to break the rules.

As for the previous note, please see https://atlantaned.space/banbus/mymessages, it's several months ago at this point, and would generally be classed as expired, though not a large number of played hours (this appealed ban was placed at 73 played hours), but it's super relevant, like, basically the same thing...

Code: Select all

2022-01-08 20:13:05 | Manuel | Round 176254 | Ze Doctor | 4h Living Playtime

Minor Severity

As a non antag threw incendiary grenades on the emergency shuttle before it had docked at CC. Please do remember that end of round grief does not begin until after the end of round report appears 
Fire grenades on escape shuttle before it docks, it explicitly notes that you now know when this is permitted ; after the end of round report appears (which is the same time as the 'the round has ended' log message).


You undoubtedly killed a bunch of people, the shuttle was a disaster, someone ticketed events from the cold depths of space as many fell out the shuttle, and the number of people in crit at round end from the same was significant, it would be hard to create a full bill of consequences here, from the logs, or even in round at the time, especially under time pressure of delaying the round. It's quite possible 7 days is a conservative ban for the carnage you (two) wrought on the shuttle and its occupants.


I genuinely see no grounds for an appeal here, at best you seem to be trying to sell your actions on what you define as "fun", in the usual way people do this meaning what's fun for you, rather than what's fun for the round or anyone else playing.
iain0
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 pm
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Re: [Iain0] Decker-5 banned for making shuttle a little too hot and cold at the same time

Post by iain0 » #649504

This ban has since expired reducing the possibility of appeal to simply amending the record of events.

I'll be rejecting and closing this appeal in a couple of days if I hear nothing further from you as this appeal has gone quiet.

Thanks.
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