[Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

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medeelel18
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[Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by medeelel18 » #650150

Note; Please do not misinterperet this as a means of myself trying to shift the blame of the matter, put the admin at fault, or to demonstrate that some other variable was at play here. This is a appeal that I am posting only for the sole purpose of getting my ban shortened/removed as I believe myself had reasonable cause.


BYOND account: medeelel18
Character name: Devin Plankchest (or) Mikhail Tolstykh (I cannot remember, I use both characters at random with little attention to the detail)
Ban type: Server ban
Ban length: Temporary, 5 days
Ban reason: "As a non-antagonist bartender with an active jobban from security, acquired healing items and riot armor before shooting 3 different crew members on the assumtion that they were antagonists or acting aggressively. Validhunting with the bartender shotgun is not an appropriate response to being jobbanned from security, and this is not a deathmatch server. (I had to write this side by side of the ban reason as I was unable to paste it here since I couldnt select the text, this is identical to the text in the ban reason maybe with an exception of a few typos.)
Time ban was placed: 12:33:27 Server time
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry, although I have previously played on Sybil on multiple occasions
Round ID in which ban was placed: 18832
Your side of the story: Was inside of the corridor between botany and the kitchen when I had stumbled into the cook hacking my door, he then ordered beergoggles and I had expressed my concern citing "just ask next time", almost instantanousely, a shattered reality appears of the corner of the screen (real one) which is when I grab the cook and explain to him what I had just seen, I tell him that he should be weary of the other cook as he had red eyes as well and may or may not have been a cultist/heretic. This is relatively unimportant to the story but I'll keep it here incase anyone needs some extra context. After that, I sit around the bar area for a while trying to find iron to grind up for amsec when all of a sudden I heard flashing near the kitchen lounge area which is when I enter the dining area to maybe get some context or clue to this. Of course, I am very alarmed at this point as this is literally only such a thing a headrev would have to do. I dont do anything in response, but warn the cooks (my colleagues) about it incase they havent caught up on it. Still making drinks, a fight develops outside the bar between what seemed to be a medical doctor shooting morphine darts at someone who looked simmilar or was the same person as the person I had seen flashing people. I grab my shotgun, and leave the bar keeping chase of the person who was getting tranq'd. I take chase on him and take a potshot with my shotgun with an impro shell (I forgot imrpov shells were loaded in), the shot is unsucessful and a few pellets land on the person tranq'ing the suspected headrev, as a result I swap my shells to beanbags to avoid such collateral damage and follow him up the hallway, where a crewmember tells me directly that there are revs on the station. I hear two flashes north of where I am so I head there which is where I find one person running away and two others beating what appeared to be an unconsious/knocked down crewmate. The two people are beating him with makeshift weapons, one possessing a electric weapon (likely saw or drill) and the other attacking him with a blunt object of sorts. I instantly open fire on the two with one of the attackers instantly running away when a medical doctor drags the unconsious person to the general direction of the brig. I am still locked in combat with the person and I manage to hit him with two beanbags, which knocks him down, I rotate around the other side, and shoot him another two times with beanbags, in an attempt to resolve the fight quickly, I mistakingly enage him in hand to hand combat with my shotgun failing to even hit him once with the stock of the gun. The person is striking me with a toolbox and I am heavily irradiated from who knows what which is when I enter a almost critical condition during the fight, I then take a crowbar and whack him a few times untill he drops to the floor unconsious. (This is where I believe I went too far). Instead of calling security, I take the matter into my own hands and start dragging his unconsious body to the general direction of the brig while pouncing him with the weapon he had used on me which I had recovered. (I believe it was a grey toolbox). The HOP and Captain stumble across the scene of my dragging an unconsious guy when I explain to them that he had beaten someone to death and incorrectly tell them that he was a tot. I pulverise him with the toolbox and he dies. I believe at this point, the captain ordered me to bring him to the medbay which I reluctantly agree and drag him to the medbay with the captain following behind, after he is buckled in the stasis bed, the captain cuffs me with zipties and brings me into a room in medbay (I did not resist his arrest). I explain to the captain what had happened and the cap tells me to not kill the person, but to get them into crit. Looking back, I should have done this, but I was almost crit myself, not looking to justify it, again, I am only trying to add a basis of more context. The captain lets me go eventually and this is when the admin messages me and this is when I head to the barkeeps office and speak to the admin.

Why you think you should be unbanned: Well, this was literally a fake revscare combined with two people beating someone who I had stumbled across in a hallway, who I instinctively felt like helping. I can garuntee you that if I had not been "trolled" with a fake revscare, along with the rest of the crew, I would have probably not acted so rashly and taken the situation into my hands. Again, not trying to shift the blame onto others, but I am trying to make it understandable on why I beheaved like this. The person who inititated the revscare, was obviously looking and seeking to cause chaos, for him, job well done, for me, I acted out of line as I shouldnt have pursuied the person to begin with in the first place, it was never my fight to begin with, I was only incentivized to do something as I believed it to be a rev. In short, I believe I should be unbanned as I believe the actions and responses I took that round, was a result of the chaos caused by the revscare and the concurring words of a crewmate, combined with a conveniently placed beatdown. Other than that, I feel like defending an unconsious person from two percieved thugs beating him to death was sort of the right thing to do in the moment. I believe that this wasnt interpereted in the ban as good intention, rather interpereted as valid hunting/deathmatching.

References of good conduct: Refusing to "displace" a suspected antag (told on by multiple crew members, seeing the suspected crew member possesing cfour, and assault a person. Simultaneously while having had the idea floated by the AI holo), I had given the alleged victim and alleged aggresor the ability to come to the bar if they were being attacked/injured by one another or anyone else. I conveyed the message via the pda, in the end, the suspected tot was a tot in the end but I hadnt taken any action against him citing to multiple people the reason being that I was afraid of poor judgement and getting banned once yet again by "centcomm" - (LRP purposes only)
Anything else we should know: Throughout almost all of my previous games, I express my lack of resolve in multiple games a result of "fear" of being banned yet again from the station. (I put this here as I believe it helps demonstrate to you that I indeed am aware of the situation, and try to keep a cool tone, I was afraid my next ban was going to be a permament ban, but I thank you for being leniant with me in only giving me a 5day break rather than premabanning me which I believe some admins would have done, (Please do not misinterperet this as generalising admins or anything, this is only put in here to say you have been more than leniant with me on this one).

"Why dont you just wait it out?:" This is basically the only game I play at this point, I could theoretically wait the ban out and that would be seen as the hassle free way but I treaded lightly during the past week with my behaviour on this game and it seemed to pay off untill I was showed a revscare which seemed to fuck everything up for myself...

Thank you for reading this, I apologize if I have come off as condescending in any way here, I hope you can review this and give me a renewed verdict.
- medeelel18
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medeelel18
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by medeelel18 » #650240

(The place which the melee and gun battle took place was the top left most corner of the hallway

I am just re-reading my appeal, and I want to add now something: I was shooting two people beating someone to death, not two random commoners in the hallway, although the sec-job shouldnt have been picked up by me after having a job-ban, it may seem like im trying to avoid it. But im really not. I alternate between cooks and bartender, and this was one of the rounds I played as a bartender. There were two people someone to death in a hallway, after the whole station had been convinced that there were revs. Although it would later be revealed to be a fake one by an admin, I feel like the point of the beating was not properely discussed, rather it may or may not have been overlooked by my previous history on this game. I have treaded very lightly the past week on the game, refusing to do anything rash in multiple games as a result of the fear of myself getting permabanned for my next offence. I do not feel like the admin is at fault here, I I just feel like whoever was setting the revscare was seeking to cause trouble, and mixed with the beating and the crewmates literally shouting "revs", it was a rash but understandable response from me. Having one of the two run away immediatley as soon as I start shooting beanbags already is "sus" enough, and having the second person manuevering around the engine someone had just randomly built in the hallway in order to get closer to me is already a red flag there, at this point I see he had nothing to lose, and everything to gain. He was likely a tot from my thinking, after seeing him and another guy literally beat a person to death. I engage him in melee which was my mistake as he manages to get me into a sub crit condition "forcing" me to beat him, I beat him to crit, and I should have left it there, but I decided to beat him to deat... This is where I believe I went too far.

This is just my perspective of the things, of course, you the admin probably have different views on this like everyone would, again, I do not want to try shift the blame, or put any other admin, rule, or variable at fault, but whoever made the revscare was causing more trouble than he should, flashed multiple people prior, and even before the beatdown I was hearing flashes coming from the general direction. I have had good behaviour on this game, 0 admin notices ever since my ban and I have demonstrated restraint when using barkeep by refusing to use my shotgun in even dire cases and sticking to making drinks and decorating the bar like any barman should. This was not me metagaming, powergaming, or taking part in a deathmatch. The person who had caused the revscare, caused trouble, and I ended up on the other end of it.

Thank you for reading this, I apologize if I have come off as condescending in any way here, I hope you can review this and give me a renewed verdict.
- medeelel18
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Lulufren
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by Lulufren » #650266

While i am waiting for the logs to appear on scrubby, so i can review them here, i would at least like to clarify that we are not THAT quick to jump to permas, so you dont need to be afraid of that unless you do some very clearly bad faith stuff.

Main issues i see here are rule 1 and rule 12 of our rules and of course the escalation policy, but i'll get back to you after looking into your reasoning, because it doesnt really match up with what i saw while observing the round, but i'll doublecheck to be sure
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by medeelel18 » #650269

Oh nae, I only jumped to the conclusion of myself having the possibility of being permabanned since this isnt my first offence.

If you please as well, and if it is not of big hassle, you can check my other rounds prior to this one where I demonstrate a good attitude towards the crew on ss13, after I had been given the job ban, I have had almost 0 hostile interactions with players, disputes, or any complaints from what I know. The only outlying round I can think of is one on icebox where I had a slight scuffle with the cook over an issue I do not remember what it was about, but it was mainly confined to argumentative behaviour. I just hope you can see through this one round to see the dozens of rounds prior to this after the jobban that I have made a change in the way how I play this game, and present myself, having a good demanor with players and showing restraint in rulebreaking. Anyways, thats about all I have to say. I look forward to seeing your review on this.
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by Lulufren » #650271

I'm not gonna dive through multiple rounds worth of logs, sorry. The round i care about is the one where you shot people for being flashed or supposedly in a fight (which does not appear on either the logs or in my memory), as that would be a flimsy justification even if it were a rev round. Seeing how it wasn't and you targeted non-antagonists, i'm gonna uphold this ban.
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medeelel18
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by medeelel18 » #650272

I think you may have got a bit confused, there was a person who had flashed two people at the bar, ran out almost instantly after doing so, this is when a medical doctor started shooting with a syringe gun at someone who looked like who had used the flash. I follow the guy who I believe flashed the people in the bar, but he runs faster than me so I only can track him from his last known location, this is when I end up south of cargo's hallway where a crewmate says "revs" or "revs rea" in which is when I hear two flashes coming from the right hand corner of the hallway, I head over there and that is when I see the two people beating someone to crit. Is it not a reasonable decsision for me to make to at least try diffuse the fight? Looking back, I shouldn't have jumped straight to beanbags, but the person was in crit or potentially dead.


Edit: Also I did not shoot the people for being flashed, the two people who I had seen myself get flashed in the bar I just ignored, and then chased the person matching the description who was engaging the tranq'ing doctor. It is when I follow his general direction when I stumble across what seemed like a beatdown. And then this also brings me to another point, why were two non antagonists beating someone to death who wasnt an antag himself? (not trying to deflect from the point or anything, im just curious as how I ended up in a situation like this and ended up getting banned for what was most likely saving someone.)
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kieth4
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by kieth4 » #650299

Image
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medeelel18
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by medeelel18 » #650305

Abdul al-qanim fake revved 3 people actually inside the bar, and then proceeded to run out immedieatly. I found it in the logs, right now I am just trying to figure out how to insert the image inside the comment im making him.

Image

Another extremely un-malicuos attempt
These are most likely the flashes I am talking about before engaging the two people particapating in a beatdown... It says it is next to cargo bay, and cargo lobby, that is excatly where the fight took place.
Image


A few more because its abdul:

Image
Image
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medeelel18
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by medeelel18 » #650307

Some more in the bar YET AGAIN:
(A little bit of forcefulness with grabbing to maybe get a reaction presumably.)
Image

Image
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medeelel18
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by medeelel18 » #650308

About the tranq'ing shit and the fight:

(The assumption that he was being tran'qd with morphine was wrong but chloral hydrate is close enough)

Image

(I am almost certain these are the flashes I had heard before engaging abdul at near cargo)
Image

Only is it then I start shooting
Image


(Abdul has flashed over 15+ people prior to this engagement around the station, I couldnt fit them all in as most of them were single isolated incidents with a few clusters, but it would have been too much time and effort to get a few more pieces of evidence in)
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by medeelel18 » #650309

As kieth had pointed out, I think if anyone should have been banned for this, it should be abdul as he had been fake revving literally around the entire station with the majority of incidents happening in the bar, which sort of made it my responsibility

And I want to clarify, I did not shoot ANYONE who had been flashed, I shot the people because they were beating a man to death AFTER hearing the flashes, and a crewmate saying "Revs"

(Also if it says the ale'nath or some dumb shit its just the bar because I changed the led screen from blank to this in the bar)

I look forward to hearing your responses and hopefully a renewed verdict,

-medeelel18

(The crewmate guy: Image) - likely just basing off his information off the flashing sounds, but at the time I used his word as a extra basis of reasoning and "proof"

(Wasnt the only one to think revs either, the HOS (lukas beedel) was also floating the idea of revs here) - Image

Oh and this is literally abdul motherfucking telling the crew that there are REVS AFTER FUCKING FLASHING PEOPLE AT HIS LOCATION, MF LITERALLY TELLS PEOPLE OVER THE RADIO THERE ARE FUCKING REVS WHILE FAKE REVVING, MAN HERE HAS A BRAIN EATING PARASITE IN HIS HEAD OR SOMETHING: Image
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Lulufren
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by Lulufren » #650311

I get that there was some flashing, but i also saw you attack and chase two other people while observing the round, which i also, again, saw in the logs. If it was only abdul then this would have been a different kind of ticket.

If you can explain these:
Image
(gregor samsa who was trying to build some "art installation" in hallways and didnt agress against you in any way, i observed this)

as well as Image

then i might reconsider, otherwise i'll stick with upholding the ban

source for the attack log:
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... attack.txt

(edited because previous image upload site was no good)
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medeelel18
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by medeelel18 » #650312

Gregor was likely building the art installation and I was shooting at abdul, but abdul was likely the one who had ran and gregor was the one who had stayed back and ran at me with a toolbox fighting me in a melee.

From what you have shown me here, it looks like abdul ran away and I assumed that gregor was with abdul as I had heard flashing and heard someone / multiple people beating someone.... This is when I stumble across them, fire at abdul with the beanbag, abdul takes off running, gregor stays behind assuming im the bad guy, and holds his ground against me trying to defend himself from the percieved aggressor.

But this had all happened after abdul had flashed two people in the area of the art installation, when I had stumbled across them. I assumed that they both were bad, however, I failed to realise that abdul had taken off and left the other guy to take the blame/fall. We were fighting in a busy hallway intersection, passer by's are bound to come by and collateral is a large risk here. But my point is if abdul had never even fake revved in the first place, absaloutely NOTHING would have happened. What I see here is a domino effect.

From my understanding here, abdul manipulated him (gregor) and myself.

As for the percieved two people I had chased you might have seen, that isnt the case, you probably had seen me chasing abdul WITH two others, I was just injured so I fell behind and it may have looked like that

So in short: I was not chasing three people, I was chasing abdul with two other people, I fell behind as I was injured. The likely reason why gregor was the one who had gotten shot by myself is as abdul was the one who had fleed the scene and let gregor take the fall for him, I would have likely kept on chasing abdul, if it werent have been for the possibility of revs and multiple grouped TOTs. There was friendly fire bound to happen in a crowded hallway. Other than that, I do not know what else to say, but this was one big elaborate plan made by abdul, made with multiple fail safes and he relied on gregor to take his fall by making me percieve his involvement. This was a domino effect which Abdul had caused, if abdul hadnt even begun with fake rev shit, I would have left the bar to being with and gotten myself in this mess.
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Lulufren
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by Lulufren » #650317

Well, maybe dont use your shotgun on the assumption that someone might be antagonist, especially when you manage to hit unrelated third parties in the process.
This would be bad for a sec player to do, and double-bad for a bartender who asked for a riot armor and then went to chase "suspects" with a bartender shotgun, while already being jobbanned from sec for poor judgement, which arguably can even be interpreted as a form of ban evasion.

I already lowered the ban from a week to 5 days while discussing the situation in the ticket, i'm not gonna lower the ban further.
If you want a headmin review, i'll let them know.
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medeelel18
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by medeelel18 » #650318

Yes I would like a headmin to review this please

From my view this is what happened with gregor:

I apporach the two,, and fire two shots at abdul, who runs away

- Gregor, who sees me as the percieved agressor charges me with his toolbox in an attempt to put me in a melee Image
- I fire two rounds at him knocking him down, afterwards you can see me back away from him gaining distance from him preventing such thing happening again, this can be validated by the future coordinates of him and myself when in comparison with the log image shown above.

- Gregor is stands up after being downed by the two beanbag rounds and proceeds to wrap around the art piece moving around it trying to "peek punch" me, although, missing his first attempt: Image

- My irradiated state which has been going on for the shift had weakend my phyisical health by a substantial amount, this showed up on my health counter as a red beat which was likely effected by my radiation earlier, so I started to try and down him, or put him in a critical state.

Now from my understanding, where I believe I went way too far here was when I had violated the second rule of escalation. The rule states that you should NOT kill them unless they attempt to injure you again after a first fight having ended with a critical state and medical treatement. This was obviously NOT the case here, as I had exceeded this rule by continuing to injure him and attack him while he was in a "resting" position. My main fear here was, that I hadnt immobilized him as the beanbags still had their stamina drain effect on him, and/or as medibot may have healed him midfight, (There was a medibot on the same tile from us). The statement made about the medibot is not intended to justify me killing him but rather it is to show that I made a poor attempt.

So while I cannot say I was right here for injuring and eventually killing gregor, I can say that in PARTIALLY that this was done in self defence, after the charge of gregor towards me, I should have definetly not resorted to a "last resort" or to have even engaged him to begin with, rather I should have kept on going for abdul in that case.
- I realised my mistake afterwards, and when the captain had dragged him to medbay with myself, after he had been buckled onto the stasis bed, the captain then cuffed me, in which I did not resist. I understood that killing him was way too far. But through all this, I hope you can see that in that present moment, I may have thought that was the right thing. Without a revscare, this wouldnt have happened. I have played over a dozen, maybe even more games after my prior ban, with 0 admin remarks/punitive action. Please see through this that this was not an attempt at rulebreaking, powergaming, or navigating around a jobban.

Edit: I think it is at least worth noting that there were no sec-offs present during shiftstart and the majority of the time on the server the only secoff was HOS "and" captain

Thank you for reading
- medeelel18

Edit: While reading through the logs, I have also discovered that jimmy mcnuggets (guy tranq'ing fake antag with chloral) was the one being beaten to death there)



The second image:

Me and jimmy were chasing abdul down the hallway, I fire at abdul with the imrpo shell but accidentally strike jimmy as we apporach a corner and jimmy turns into my shells. (After this I swapped to beanbags to prevent this) Purely accidental but I will admit that I shouldnt have attempted to shoot abdul while chasing him with another person in close proximity.
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medeelel18
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Re: [Lulufren] Metastation - Devin Danny Plankchest ban appeal

Post by medeelel18 » #650530

The headmins are likely too busy to deal with a 5day ban that is almost over so I’ll just wait this one out. Can you mark this ticket as resolved? Thank you for your time and your willingness to discuss this ticket with me. Goodluck

-medeelel18
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